Fair enough.

Gagner could fit in as a winger and a playmaker with their collection of good shooters, but it's a stretch.

What doesn't look right about Harti is his terrible skating he's a ongoing project and would only be part of a package deal. MPS is a great prospect, who if he maxes out still has a similar skill-set to Hall: a 6"2 200lb LW with great skating ability who loves to crash the net. His similarity to Hall is the only reason he gets thrown into proposals, it has little to do with his talent level (which is high).

I just feel like you come in to every Edmonton related thread guns blazing, even casual speculations like this one. I'll admit you're not as bad as some who seem to claim that we should overpay for middling defensemen because we "need them so bad". It still gets a little old. Especially the Hemsky is useless stuff. As I say, he scores well enough to be a top6er on a lot of teams.
- Morris

You already have middling defensemen at best. Why overpay for them, even though he is an upgrade for what you already have? But, then you are asking people to grossly overpay for a kid that has been compared to Pavel Bure, but hasn't played one single game in the NHL thus far. No one knows what will happen and you are asking for proven NHL talent in return? Different argument so I will digress from it ...

I come over guns a blazing when I see Hemsky being overvalued; same with Gagner and some of the ridiculous comments I see regarding these two as to their value. I don't value either too highly. Maybe Gagner can show he can do something of note absent a two week stretch moving forward. Hemsky is what he is. He is an enigma. You don't know what you can count on with him. His skill set is very proven and talent is unquestioned, but the end result is a major question as far as production. It leaves you scratching your head. You say he scores well enough to be a top 6er on alot of teams. I thought he wasn't a scorer, instead a distributer according to several of you. Which is it?

You already have middling defensemen at best. Why overpay for them, even though he is an upgrade for what you already have? But, then you are asking people to grossly overpay for a kid that has been compared to Pavel Bure, but hasn't played one single game in the NHL thus far. No one knows what will happen and you are asking for proven NHL talent in return? Different argument so I will digress from it ...

I come over guns a blazing when I see Hemsky being overvalued; same with Gagner and some of the ridiculous comments I see regarding these two as to their value. I don't value either too highly. Maybe Gagner can show he can do something of note absent a two week stretch moving forward. Hemsky is what he is. He is an enigma. You don't know what you can count on with him. His skill set is very proven and talent is unquestioned, but the end result is a major question as far as production. It leaves you scratching your head. You say he scores well enough to be a top 6er on alot of teams. I thought he wasn't a scorer, instead a distributer according to several of you. Which is it?
- Oneonta Penguin

I think I speak for most people when I say this....

If the Oilers draft Yakupov why not get a puck mOving d-man and get Enstrom and Burmistrov? Add a Russian to play with him and toss out some one to the Jets. He spent way, way more time in Noel's dog house than Kane ever did.

I'm totally shocked that there are folks who think Edmonton will be able to easily fill d-holes. It has not happened in 5 years and now it will without having to give up some one?

The bigger question is why are people do afraid to make a hockey deal for Edmonton? Baffling to me. Make a proposal, open it up but don't dismiss Enstrom because you think there is something better. What is it and why will Edmonton get him/them?
- Peter.Tessier

So what exactly are you proposing for the 1st overall pick?

I think I speak for most people when I say this....


- Starbuck

Love the Rock!

You already have middling defensemen at best. Why overpay for them, even though he is an upgrade for what you already have? But, then you are asking people to grossly overpay for a kid that has been compared to Pavel Bure, but hasn't played one single game in the NHL thus far. No one knows what will happen and you are asking for proven NHL talent in return? Different argument so I will digress from it ...

I come over guns a blazing when I see Hemsky being overvalued; same with Gagner and some of the ridiculous comments I see regarding these two as to their value. I don't value either too highly. Maybe Gagner can show he can do something of note absent a two week stretch moving forward. Hemsky is what he is. He is an enigma. You don't know what you can count on with him. His skill set is very proven and talent is unquestioned, but the end result is a major question as far as production. It leaves you scratching your head. You say he scores well enough to be a top 6er on alot of teams. I thought he wasn't a scorer, instead a distributer according to several of you. Which is it?
- Oneonta Penguin

I agree about the defensemen. It's nonsensical to talk about dealing 2nd and 3rd year studs or 1st overall picks for lesser talent. Who trades the best asset if they get lowballed?

As far as Yak goes, it's of course a crapshoot. Not that much of a crap shoot - misses at 1st overall are pretty rare. But an Oilers fan talking Bure comparisons is just as reasonable as a Columbus/Montreal fan talking about Ryan Murray-Scott Neidermayer comparisons - in the end it's just an observation about playing style that a scout made, not a prediction. That being said, you wouldn't expect proven NHL talent in exchange for a 1st overall? I wouldn't expect anyone to trade Jonathan Toews for Yakupov, but I'd expect a certain standard. Just because he hasn't played a single game doesn't mean his NHL worth is below that of a 200 game veteran with no elite potential. As you say though, a different argument.

I find it hard to take seriously when people say guys like Hemsky or Gagner are overvalued. Of course they are, and mostly it's in reaction to people undervaluing them. Or vice versa. It's all just a vicious circle with certain contentious players. The truth of Gagner lies somewhere between the assertion that he's a top centre in the making and that he's not NHL calibre, and probably never will be. These opinions are the gamut of assertions about Gagner, and it's no wonder that mentions of him get more and more reactionary.

As far as Hemsky goes, I'm not sure that he's that much of an enigma. He produces just under a PPG for every game he's healthy. He played two severely injury-shortened seasons and got major surgery, which he rehabbed slowly but successfully from over the course of this season. There is a question of how much further he'll bounce back next year (maybe he'll only ever be a 40-point guy), but he has a track record of pretty consistent production, and poor health - he's completely consistent in terms of production and effort.

I meant scorer in the sense of point-getting. He's a great set-up man. And on a team with a couple of decent goal scorers, he could do quite well.

I agree about the defensemen. It's nonsensical to talk about dealing 2nd and 3rd year studs or 1st overall picks for lesser talent. Who trades the best asset if they get lowballed?

As far as Yak goes, it's of course a crapshoot. Not that much of a crap shoot - misses at 1st overall are pretty rare. But an Oilers fan talking Bure comparisons is just as reasonable as a Columbus/Montreal fan talking about Ryan Murray-Scott Neidermayer comparisons - in the end it's just an observation about playing style that a scout made, not a prediction. That being said, you wouldn't expect proven NHL talent in exchange for a 1st overall? I wouldn't expect anyone to trade Jonathan Toews for Yakupov, but I'd expect a certain standard. Just because he hasn't played a single game doesn't mean his NHL worth is below that of a 200 game veteran with no elite potential. As you say though, a different argument.

I find it hard to take seriously when people say guys like Hemsky or Gagner are overvalued. Of course they are, and mostly it's in reaction to people undervaluing them. Or vice versa. It's all just a vicious circle with certain contentious players. The truth of Gagner lies somewhere between the assertion that he's a top centre in the making and that he's not NHL calibre, and probably never will be. These opinions are the gamut of assertions about Gagner, and it's no wonder that mentions of him get more and more reactionary.

As far as Hemsky goes, I'm not sure that he's that much of an enigma. He produces just under a PPG for every game he's healthy. He played two severely injury-shortened seasons and got major surgery, which he rehabbed slowly but successfully from over the course of this season. There is a question of how much further he'll bounce back next year (maybe he'll only ever be a 40-point guy), but he has a track record of pretty consistent production, and poor health - he's completely consistent in terms of production and effort.

I meant scorer in the sense of point-getting. He's a great set-up man. And on a team with a couple of decent goal scorers, he could do quite well.
- Morris

I think it's been established that Gagner is an average 2nd line center.

Hemsky has game breaking skill and can play tough minutes. Injuries have certainly derailed his career the past two seasons, but that doesn't mean he's worthless. Hemsky played very solid towards the end of the NHL season and again in the World Championships. I think there is a very good chance that he rebounds next season.

I think it's been established that Gagner is an average 2nd line center.

Hemsky has game breaking skill and can play tough minutes. Injuries have certainly derailed his career the past two seasons, but that doesn't mean he's worthless. Hemsky played very solid towards the end of the NHL season and again in the World Championships. I think there is a very good chance that he rebounds next season.
- Starbuck

I see three distinct possibilities for Hemsky (in order of likelihood):

1) He goes back to being a guy that you could only count on having in the lineup for 50 games a year (high 70, low 35), scoring at a PPG pace.
2) He plays 70 games a year for the rest of his career, scoring at a PPG pace.
3) He stays like he did this year, playing 70 games a year but scoring half as much.

I see three distinct possibilities for Hemsky (in order of likelihood):

1) He goes back to being a guy that you could only count on having in the lineup for 50 games a year (high 70, low 35), scoring at a PPG pace.
2) He plays 70 games a year for the rest of his career, scoring at a PPG pace.
3) He stays like he did this year, playing 70 games a year but scoring half as much.
- Morris

If Hemsky's shoulders are indeed fixed I think he ends up playing 70 games per year and scoring 50 to 60 points per season.

If Hemsky's shoulders are indeed fixed I think he ends up playing 70 games per year and scoring 50 to 60 points per season.
- Starbuck

His shoulders aren't the only issue though.

His shoulders aren't the only issue though.
- Lahey

Leave his vagina out of this.

If the Oilers draft Yakupov why not get a puck mOving d-man and get Enstrom and Burmistrov? Add a Russian to play with him and toss out some one to the Jets. He spent way, way more time in Noel's dog house than Kane ever did.

I'm totally shocked that there are folks who think Edmonton will be able to easily fill d-holes. It has not happened in 5 years and now it will without having to give up some one?

The bigger question is why are people do afraid to make a hockey deal for Edmonton? Baffling to me. Make a proposal, open it up but don't dismiss Enstrom because you think there is something better. What is it and why will Edmonton get him/them?
- Peter.Tessier

I absolutely love Burmistrov. I think he's an underrated talent. He hasn't had the chance to play with much skill in Atlanta or Winnipeg to date. Winnipeg is lacking in top 6 forwards. They could really use a #1 centre and at least 1 winger in their top 6. As much as I like Burmistrov I'm not sure he's ready quite yet for that top 6 role. Ideally I'd like to see him pushed down the charts a little in Winnipeg.

Ladd, Little and Wheeler would be an elite #2 line but they're not quite a reliable #1 line. Kane is bonafide top 3 guy going forward if he can resolve consistency issues.

Hemsky would solve some issues for Winnipeg in that he immediately makes their top 6 better. His injuries are well documented but both shoulders have been surgically repaired and he looked strong at the end of the year and in the World Championships.

I don't want to see Edmonton trade any of their top guys. My reasoning is that they're just starting to acquire depth up front and to turn around and trade it without a significant upgrade would be a mistake.

The #1 pick is not in play in a trade with Winnipeg unless Kane and/or Bogosian are in the conversation. I think MPS would fit in nicely in Winnipeg. He underachieved last year but had a solid rookie season and should bounce back.

MPS straight up for Enstrom is my offer.

MPS straight up for Enstrom is my offer.
- wolfie

I think I have seen this kid referred with three different deals ... MPS, MPV, MPR.

I don't blame Jet's fans for not wanting to trade Kane for Yakupov. Kane is big, mean, and talented. That being said...

Yakupov's ceiling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kane's ceiling

Anyone who says otherwise is full of dog sh1t.

So what exactly are you proposing for the 1st overall pick?
- Starbuck

I'm not really proposing anything for the first overall pick more of a proposal to move Enstrom. If he and #8 are not enough for first fine by me- what would it take for Edmonton to be interested that is fair both ways?

Also maybe there is no interest but I just can't see that yet.

I'm not really proposing anything for the first overall pick more of a proposal to move Enstrom. If he and #8 are not enough for first fine by me- what would it take for Edmonton to be interested that is fair both ways?

Also maybe there is no interest but I just can't see that yet.
- Peter.Tessier

I thought the Jets had #9

I think I have seen this kid referred with three different deals ... MPS, MPV, MPR.

- Oneonta Penguin

I never remember where the double 'A' occurs in his last name, so I usually say either PRV or MPS. What gets confusing is that he has a brother playing hockey in sweden that goes by Svensson.

I'm not really proposing anything for the first overall pick more of a proposal to move Enstrom. If he and #8 are not enough for first fine by me- what would it take for Edmonton to be interested that is fair both ways?

Also maybe there is no interest but I just can't see that yet.
- Peter.Tessier

evander kane or a package including Buffalo man.

I'm not really proposing anything for the first overall pick more of a proposal to move Enstrom. If he and #8 are not enough for first fine by me- what would it take for Edmonton to be interested that is fair both ways?

Also maybe there is no interest but I just can't see that yet.
- Peter.Tessier

If It was a sign and trade I could see the Oilers wanting to make a deal. As it stands right now it would be something like a Ales Hemsky and maybe a prospect d-man.

Um, Winnipeg doesn't trade Kane straight up for Yakupov. Thanks anyway.

We'll keep our fighting, 30+ goal scoring, power forward, thank you very much.

I thought the Jets had #9
- laughs2907

Now that works out even better for the Jets, trade away Carolina's pick, get back assets and still have their own.... Not sure that has been done before?

I don't blame Jet's fans for not wanting to trade Kane for Yakupov. Kane is big, mean, and talented. That being said...

Yakupov's ceiling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kane's ceiling

Anyone who says otherwise is full of dog sh1t.
- laughs2907

I just coughed up a turd for some reason.

Jets keep Kane.

A package including bogosian, Scheifele, and your 1st for a package including our 1st overall with another asset will have more traction IMO.

- ystoil

That is LOL awful for Winnipeg. I wouldn't trade Bogo alone for Yakupov, let alone give up a windfall of top assets on top of it.

Crawl back to your cave... Yakupov isn't Stamkos, he's closer to Patrick Kane.

If It was a sign and trade I could see the Oilers wanting to make a deal. As it stands right now it would be something like a Ales Hemsky and maybe a prospect d-man.
- Starbuck

Yeah I disagree with the Oneonta Penguin guy in that Hemsky doesn't have a lot of value, but is certainly someone the jets among other teams could 'use'. I would add a prospect dman as well to get it done.

That being said, I do agree with him that I don't think it's a good fit. If the Jets were hypothetically intent on shopping Enstrom, something close to that would be the Oil's "take it or leave it" offer.

That is LOL awful for Winnipeg. I wouldn't trade Bogo alone for Yakupov, let alone give up a windfall of top assets on top of it.

Crawl back to your cave... Yakupov isn't Stamkos, he's closer to Patrick Kane.
- broc

You might not want to make that deal (i think it's one-sided as well) but if Yakupov is closer to Pat Kane, you wouldn't trade Bogo for Kane??

I prefer Bogosian over Enstrom. I don't see WPG trading Kane, but every player has it's price and it will cost EDM more in a deal involving prying Kane and Bogosian rather WPG prying the first pick from EDM. For a dreaming deal...

EDM: Bogosian, Kane, WPG 1st pick
WPG: MPS, EDM 1st pick, d-man, prospect
- deks1

LOLLOOLLLLOL

Counter:

EDM: RNH, Smid, Yakupov
WPG: Scheifele, 1st rounder, Little, pick, d-man prospect

Yours is that awful.