He was invited, but did not have a reasonable chance to make the team in my opinion.

There are a few players, not invited in August, that are currently playing better than Hall and may be considered higher on the depth chart today.

But now that he's injured, he probably will be sitting at home, watching games in the middle of the night with those fans who will be doing the same.
- Doppleganger

It may be semantics, but "reason" isn't a matter of opinion. Hall may have had a low chance, but not an unreasonable one. And again, certainly not laughable.

And besides, there's a difference still in saying that he doesn't have a "reasonable chance" in the way that we use it colloquially (read:incorrectly) to mean a decent chance, and to call it unreasonable to say he has ANY chance.

There are assuredly players playing better than him, because he hasn't played in 5 games! In the nine games he played, he played and produced well. How many players do you contend shot ahead of him in that nine game span, and how many since he's been injured? Of those many players that apparently shot ahead of him in 9 games, how many weren't invited to camp? The injury is the big thing that put him out of contention.

Here is the list of forwards that were invited to the orientation camp from Aug. 25-28 in Calgary. Keeping in mind each players projected "role" on the final roster, do you really think he had a realistic chance of making the final cut?

Now of course there will be players who are now injured, not playing up to expectations, and others who may play themselves onto the roster who were not invited.

I would suggest that Hall was one of a few younger players who were invited to be part of the program, for the future, not this current Olympics.


Patrice Bergeron
Jeff Carter
Logan Couture
Sidney Crosby
Matt Duchene
Jordan Eberle
Ryan Getzlaf
Claude Giroux
Taylor Hall
Chris Kunitz
Andrew Ladd
Milan Lucic
Brad Marchand
Rick Nash 6'4"
James Neal
Corey Perry
Michael Richards
Patrick Sharp
Eric Staal
Jordan Staal
Martin St. Louis
Steven Stamkos
John Tavares
Joe Thornton
Jonathan Toews


Please make your argument, if ALL these forwards were 100% healthy and playing up to expectations, who would NOT make the final team if Hall did.
- Doppleganger

as of sept 2013.

hall could've plausibly been ahead of;
j stall
sharp
Richards
neal
marchand
lucic
ladd
kunitz
eberle
Duchene
carter


im not saying 100% he is or isn't ahead of any of these guys. But even considering roles none of those names were unequivocally ahead of him at the end of last season.

there is a group of locks, and then another group of players behind them that he was in.

and these were exactly my points with your Duchene comment. you didn't look at the big picture. you saw an injured hall vs one of the hottest players in the league right now and extrapolated the month of October into the last 2 years and what management must be thinking. more guess work than actual facts, no?

again; hall was edms best shot and had an absolutely plausible chance of making team Canada. that's all that was said. he was top ten in scoring as a 21 year old and one of the best left wingers in the game, and a natural winger. What gm wouldnt give strong consideration to a player that possess those attributes? Even with age etc. most likely being a factor, this doesnt change the original contention.

im sure you'll dip, dodge, dive and duck like you have this entire thread after being eviscerated time after time. but these are facts

as of sept 2013.

hall could've plausibly been ahead of;
j stall
sharp
Richards
neal
marchand
lucic
ladd
kunitz
eberle
Duchene
carter



- hugefemale dog77

This is where I stopped reading and taking anything you said seriously.

The only fact is that he was not going to be on the team to begin with, and now with his injury I doubt he can get back in time to play well enough to catch the eye of Team Canada Management.

Fans of teams, all teams, overestimate their teams players.

This is where I stopped reading and taking anything you said seriously.

The only fact is that he was not going to be on the team to begin with, and now with his injury I doubt he can get back in time to play well enough to catch the eye of Team Canada Management.

Fans of teams, all teams, overestimate their teams players.
- Doppleganger

K.

And you know this how?

I stated absolute undeniable facts. Every one of them.
None of which said by any stretch a guarantee hall makes canada. U stated your opinion and try to pass it in as fact. But thats how our back and forth seems to always work, doesnt it?

And i never bothered to take anything you said seriously. I dont think any of us on this entire thread have.

This post was just one more example.

This is where I stopped reading and taking anything you said seriously.

The only fact is that he was not going to be on the team to begin with, and now with his injury I doubt he can get back in time to play well enough to catch the eye of Team Canada Management.

Fans of teams, all teams, overestimate their teams players.
- Doppleganger

Disagree..... He had a legit shot.

K.

And you know this how?

I stated absolute undeniable facts. Every one of them.
None of which said by any stretch a guarantee hall makes canada. U stated your opinion and try to pass it in as fact. But thats how our back and forth seems to always work, doesnt it?

And i never bothered to take anything you said seriously. I dont think any of us on this entire thread have.

This post was just one more example.
- hugefemale dog77

What you call "absolute undeniable facts" everyone else calls opinions.

Mine is just as valid as yours............except I don't throw a temper tantrum when you disagree with mine.

In my opinion, these forwards are (in no particular order) higher on the Canadian depth chart than anyone not listed.

I did not list Rick Nash, as he is out for an indeterminable amount of time. As far as I know at this time, these players are all healthy.

Sidney Crosby
Jonathan Toews
Steven Stamkos
John Tavares
Claude Giroux
Eric Staal
Corey Perry
Ryan Getzlaf
Logan Couture
Patrick Sharp
Martin St. Louis
Patrice Bergeron
Patrick Marleau
Matt Duchene
Joe Thornton
Jason Spezza
Chris Kunitz
Tyler Seguin

What you call "absolute undeniable facts" everyone else calls opinions.

Mine is just as valid as yours............except I don't throw a temper tantrum when you disagree with mine.
- Doppleganger

he couldve been ahead of any of the guys i posted. there's absolutely an argument to be made to that effect. FACT

he outscored everyone of those guys i named. FACT

he's an elite north south skater and that's something yzerman has to care about on the big ice. FACT
(uve attempted to drive that home when it suited you a million times)

he's a natural winger and with so many centers in the mix, it's completely playusible yzerman may have chosen the guy in his natural spot if he needed a tiebreaker or something of that ilk. FACT

he's also one of the best in the game at that same natural position. FACT

he has international experience. FACT

all of these add up to an almost undeniable statement. he had a legit shot. FACT
and unless you're steve yzerman and can unequivocally deny this. it remains a FACT.

every one of those are FACTS. there's a huge difference between these and OPINIONS..

as far as the original duchene debate; did he outscore duchene last year? yes.
the year before? yes. could he have been ahead of duchene on the depth chart coming into the season?? of course he may have been.
could steve yzerman take into account a larger body of work over one incredibly hot month? of course it's possible. it would be foolish not to consider that..
but is duchene ahead of right now due to two major factors? a hot month and an injury? of course.

this has been the point from the start. these arent OPINIONS like uve stated...."hall had no chance".



are there arguments for others that MAY be ahead of him like championship experience, stanley cup rings, two way play etc?? of course there are.
but this in no way changes the FACT that all of the pluses on his side gave him a real shot at being on team canada.

and there's no temper tantrum. i find it comical actually. being wrong isnt a crime. but when u just cant admit it to it, there's a problem.

Disagree..... He had a legit shot.
- burn

of course he did.

no one's saying he was a lock. there arent many of those. i went over that with him.
crosby, stamkos, toews, bergeron, tavares, weber, doughty, keith.
(giroux was at one point..im not so sure anymore)

but hall was one of a group behind those locks that had a real chance.

If I made a Team Canada roster prior to the start of the season I probably would have had Hall on it.

If I made a Team Canada roster prior to the start of the season I probably would have had Hall on it.
- daeth

Preseason, Mine too.

Alot of peoples it seemed, and fair enough after how good he was last year.
Alot of others had him off there's for better two way guys, experience etc. and also fair enough.

But no one with any real idea said it's a fact that hall has no chance.
Because it just aint true.

Preseason, Mine too.

Alot of peoples it seemed, and fair enough after how good he was last year.
Alot of others had him off there's for better two way guys, experience etc. and also fair enough.

But no one with any real idea said it's a fact that hall has no chance.
Because it just aint true.
- hugefemale dog77

Again, your opinions are just that, opinions and NOT "facts".

The point is that Hall's chances of making the team were somewhere between slim and none due to the wealth of experienced talent that Canada has at the forward positions.

Just because Hall is a natural left winger, does not mean he has an edge over another forward who isn't.

Yeah I get it, you really really like your team's players and actually believe all the home town hype you must have listened too and read in the local media.

He's a victim of the numbers and being young with ZERO international experience (World Championships and Olympics) since he turned Pro

In Ottawa we have a Captain that has tones of international experience by comparison, and he was not invited to the August camp.

Again, your opinions are just that, opinions and NOT "facts".

The point is that Hall's chances of making the team were somewhere between slim and none due to the wealth of experienced talent that Canada has at the forward positions.

Just because Hall is a natural left winger, does not mean he has an edge over another forward who isn't.

Yeah I get it, you really really like your team's players and actually believe all the home town hype you must have listened too and read in the local media.

He's a victim of the numbers and being young with ZERO international experience (World Championships and Olympics) since he turned Pro

In Ottawa we have a Captain that has tones of international experience by comparison, and he was not invited to the August camp.
- Doppleganger

The bolded is probably true, and prudent. But, given his standing among Canadian LWs, if the selection group was particularly interested players playing in their natural positions, he'd have been in pretty good shape.

And he actually did play in the 2013 WC.

If you're a healthy player who's on their game, and you've been invited to olympic camp (or, in the case of Spezza has ever been invited to camp) you're likely in the conversation. My contention was only ever that laughing at the notion that he was in the conversation was an odd reaction on your part.

The bolded is probably true, and prudent. But, given his standing among Canadian LWs, if the selection group was particularly interested players playing in their natural positions, he'd have been in pretty good shape.

And he actually did play in the 2013 WC.

If you're a healthy player who's on their game, and you've been invited to olympic camp (or, in the case of Spezza has ever been invited to camp) you're likely in the conversation. My contention was only ever that laughing at the notion that he was in the conversation was an odd reaction on your part.
- Morris

Yes Hall did go the the 2013 WC, thanks for that correction.

However Jason Spezza was invited to a Team Canada Olympic team camp and ended up a reserve for Team Canada at the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin.

Again, your opinions are just that, opinions and NOT "facts".

The point is that Hall's chances of making the team were somewhere between slim and none due to the wealth of experienced talent that Canada has at the forward positions.

Just because Hall is a natural left winger, does not mean he has an edge over another forward who isn't.

Yeah I get it, you really really like your team's players and actually believe all the home town hype you must have listened too and read in the local media.

He's a victim of the numbers and being young with ZERO international experience (World Championships and Olympics) since he turned Pro

In Ottawa we have a Captain that has tones of international experience by comparison, and he was not invited to the August camp.
- Doppleganger

Wtf? You just put words down for the sake of it.
Or do you bother actually trying to comprehend another persons point?

They are not opinions!! You clearly dont understand the definition. Read again. Or dont. Whatever.

Wtf? You just put words down for the sake of it.
Or do you bother actually trying to comprehend another persons point?

They are not opinions!! You clearly dont understand the definition. Read again. Or dont. Whatever.
- hugefemale dog77

fact


noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law. . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.

fact


noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law. . Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.
- Doppleganger

good.

we've established you're capable of copying and pasting. the next step is to understand and comprehend the words.

as far as the hall at wing helping him. i never said it absolutely gives him a spot. far from it.
I said in the event that yzerman may have been torn between him and another, him being one of the fewer true left wingers may help in terms of decision making. this is a totally reasonable and plausible statement.
but of course your contention is "no chance, no how, no way"

and what does your spezza point have to do with anything? that not everyone that gets invited to camp makes the team? not one poster has said anything to the contrary. nor would they. the math is simple.

taylor hall was edmontons best chance of having a player on team Canada. FACT
taylor hall was top ten in scoring last year and outscored many of the players that you'd rather have on the team. FACT
you are not steve yzerman. FACT
taylor hall is an elite skater. FACT
skating will be a factor on the big ice. FACT(you cant all of a sudden dismiss this point that uve attempted to use exhaustively now that it no longer coincides with your side of the debate at hand)
taylor hall has international experience. FACT
taylor hall has previously played on the big ice. FACT
many people picked him on their proposed team. FACT
taylor hall is an elite left winger. FACT
all of these together combined with his invite to camp equaled taylor hall having a legit shot at team Canada before he went down. FACT

none of us have ever said he was a lock. the only person who ever made a definitive statement about his candidacy one way or another was you. not me, nor the other two who disagree with you. FACT. and the proof is in the posts.



I don't know if you're being obtuse on purpose, or are just plain stupid.
either way, it's exhausting trying to educate you.

If I had to guess Dopps, you mistakenly thought I claimed that Taylor Hall was a lock, and laughed off that assertion.

Now that you realize what I'm saying is quite reasonable, you're in too deep to back down.

It's not laughable to think that anyone good enough to get a camp invite has a snowball's chance in hell to make the team, that's all.
- Morris

this!!!!

and he never would.

everything that has been said to counter has been rational, reasonable and completely realistic.

and ud think most people would've cut and run by now. or at least politely excused themselves from a losing battle.

im not sure which people are more frustrating; One Uppers, or people who just cant admit to being wrong and will argue forever even if they don't have a leg to stand on.

this!!!!

and he never would.

everything that has been said to counter has been rational, reasonable and completely realistic.

and ud think most people would've cut and run by now. or at least politely excused themselves from a losing battle.

im not sure which people are more frustrating; One Uppers, or people who just cant admit to being wrong and will argue forever even if they don't have a leg to stand on.
- hugefemale dog77

There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions. In your opinion Hall was going to be on the Olympic Team. In my opinion, sure he was invited to camp, but because he's young, has very little international experience, other players not invited playing better and with Canada's incredible depth at forward he had very little chance of making the team.

Look back at previous Canadian Olympic teams and you'll see this scenario played out with many younger players in the past.

And keep in mind, your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion, that's all.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to opinions. In your opinion Hall was going to be on the Olympic Team. In my opinion, sure he was invited to camp, but because he's young, has very little international experience, other players not invited playing better and with Canada's incredible depth at forward he had very little chance of making the team.

Look back at previous Canadian Olympic teams and you'll see this scenario played out with many younger players in the past.

And keep in mind, your opinion is not a fact, it's an opinion, that's all.
- Doppleganger

Neither of us are saying that!

At this point, with how many times we've reiterated that point, to continue to attack this strawman is borderline insulting.

It's not laughable to suggest Taylor Hall had a chance to make the Olympic team, let alone that he was the Oilers best chance.

Ever hear of the expression "tilting at windmills?"

Neither of us are saying that!

At this point, with how many times we've reiterated that point, to continue to attack this strawman is borderline insulting.

It's not laughable to suggest Taylor Hall had a chance to make the Olympic team, let alone that he was the Oilers best chance.

Ever hear of the expression "tilting at windmills?"
- Morris

You're just beating this difference of opinions to death aren't you?

What exactly do you hope to achieve?



If it's to change my opinion, then you're wasting your time.


Are you familiar with the phrase " Go, sir, rub your chain with crumbs"?

You're just beating this difference of opinions to death aren't you?

What exactly do you hope to achieve?



If it's to change my opinion, then you're wasting your time.


Are you familiar with the phrase " Go, sir, rub your chain with crumbs"?
- Doppleganger

I guess this is what I'm trying to achieve, as it applies globally to your posts:

Stop dodging quesitons. Stop putting words in people's mouths. Stop ignoring what other people are saying.

Our opinions, for the record - and if you bothered to read and understand - were the same: Taylor Hall didn't have no chance whatsoever, but likely much closer to that than being a lock. Neither party believes he was a lock.

I think we're both done talking about Hall and the Olympic team now.

As a change of topic / olive branch, what would be your proposed format for a revamped world championship of hockey? I think it another thread you suggested NHL involvement in that instead of the olympics, and you or someone else suggested a Best-of-3 format? Sounded neat.

As a change of topic / olive branch, what would be your proposed format for a revamped world championship of hockey? I think it another thread you suggested NHL involvement in that instead of the olympics, and you or someone else suggested a Best-of-3 format? Sounded neat.
- Morris

If you remember, if you're old enough, the Canada Cup evolved to the two finalists playing a best of three to determine the tournament champion, after the round robin and semi finals produced the two finalists.


If it's the Best on Best people want, then bring it back (Canada Cup became the World Cup of Hockey) and stop screwing up the NHL regular season, and return the Amateurs to the Olympics.

Remember the group of college kids beating the USSR, and then going on to win the Gold in the 1980 winter Olympics?





Or, during the Olympic years, move the WJC into the Olympics.

If you remember, if you're old enough, the Canada Cup evolved to the two finalists playing a best of three to determine the tournament champion, after the round robin and semi finals produced the two finalists.


If it's the Best on Best people want, then bring it back (Canada Cup became the World Cup of Hockey) and stop screwing up the NHL regular season, and return the Amateurs to the Olympics.

Remember the group of college kids beating the USSR, and then going on to win the Gold in the 1980 winter Olympics?




Or, during the Olympic years, move the WJC into the Olympics.
- Doppleganger

Yeah I don't much care for the world juniors. it was special to watch in person in 2003, but it seems like the kind of thing that Canadians care about so much that everything becomes of function of casting aspersions on 17 and 18 year olds if they don't dominate.

If those kids were playing for the olympics, those pressures likely wouldn't enitrely subside. But there is a certain honour about the olympics that generally allows fans to appreciate the moment of global unity instead of criticizing too much. I might like to see these truly amateur athletes participate instead.