Agreed. And while I've been a Flyers follower since the Cup years I often struggle with this mentally. I lean more towards the skill part of the game. But I also like "Flyers" hockey, which has been, and continues to be, a mix of skill, and tough, in your face hockey. There have been many embarrassing moments for us over the years too. Some as bad or even worse than those displayed in this series by your team. It's a black eye on the sport in general. And it appears it's becoming more prominent around the league these days. I really hope they (NHL and NHLPA) can get a handle on it this off season.

Hopefully we see a good, clean, hard fought, close hockey game tonight.
- rockychocbill

I think its absolutely possible to embrace the physicality and toughness of the game without all the crap that goes over the line.

Beyond the Pens vs Flyers, the NHL is IMHO reaching a crossroads with regards to player conduct, but the amazing thing is that I think that many in league management don't even want to recognize the extent of the problem. Because of the head in the sand mentality that the NHL employs, and the inability to administer consistent discipline, this will continue until someone gets paralyzed or killed during a "hockey play". No matter what, one thing that absolutely needs to change is the max fine of $2500 in the next CBA. You don't have to see any further than the NFL example of severe fines for headshots as a way to manage player behavior....but its all moot until the NHL takes a hard look in the mirror and decides there is actually a problem.

At the very least it's small claims court. Take him to small claims for a refund of the money for the repairs he didn't do.
- bodiva88

Gotta admit I don't know the law as well as i did 3 years ago, but I gotta think this is some sort of felony. To do it to your neighbor that's awful. The guy has to know if he did the work or not and insisting on more money when he didn't that's absurd.

I just want to see killer instinct. It's like Mortal Kombat...Finish Them. No need to give the Pens any life. Be ready because they will be buzzing.
- Jsaquella

I want to see what I saw when the Phantoms took the ice against the Saint John Flames in 1998 for Game 6: a near flawless win (6-1, Phantoms that night). I want a Flyer to score early and then just watch the Penguins fade away (like the Flyers did in Buffalo in Game 6 in 2001 or in Philly vs. Buffalo in Game 6 in 2006).

I want to see what I saw when the Phantoms took the ice against the Saint John Flames in 1998 for Game 6: a near flawless win (6-1, Phantoms that night). I want a Flyer to score early and then just watch the Penguins fade away (like the Flyers did in Buffalo in Game 6 in 2001 or in Philly vs. Buffalo in Game 6 in 2006).
- Flyskippy

how about flyers/sabes game 7 last year? (aside from a fat guy wearing the c)

I want to see what I saw when the Phantoms took the ice against the Saint John Flames in 1998 for Game 6: a near flawless win (6-1, Phantoms that night). I want a Flyer to score early and then just watch the Penguins fade away (like the Flyers did in Buffalo in Game 6 in 2001 or in Philly vs. Buffalo in Game 6 in 2006).
- Flyskippy

You mean that look like "What the hell just happened"?

I want to see what I saw when the Phantoms took the ice against the Saint John Flames in 1998 for Game 6: a near flawless win (6-1, Phantoms that night). I want a Flyer to score early and then just watch the Penguins fade away (like the Flyers did in Buffalo in Game 6 in 2001 or in Philly vs. Buffalo in Game 6 in 2006).
- Flyskippy

Or Buffalo in game 7 last year

Got to remember, Shanahan answers to the owners and GMs. The league has to decide if it's going to go back to letting the players police the game and force opposing players to have more respect or if the NHL is going to step up and enforce respect.

The reason there was "respect" back in the day was because if you hit Wayne Gretzky, Dave Semenko was going to be paying you a visit, and if you turtled, your teammates would lose respect for you. Now, turtling gets you a five minute PP.
- Jsaquella

The instigator penalty must go.


RESCIND!

thanks, that's some really great advice. i'm am livid. i feel bad for my fiance and mom because i've been yelling since i saw the text. i do have a witness, my fiance she was there when i handed every cent to him. i paid him 610, 410, 30 and 165. total of 1215.
- flyerscup2011

That's a lot of money. That sucks. Guess it would be a good idea to go talk to the police at this point.

Got to remember, Shanahan answers to the owners and GMs. The league has to decide if it's going to go back to letting the players police the game and force opposing players to have more respect or if the NHL is going to step up and enforce respect.

The reason there was "respect" back in the day was because if you hit Wayne Gretzky, Dave Semenko was going to be paying you a visit, and if you turtled, your teammates would lose respect for you. Now, turtling gets you a five minute PP.
- Jsaquella

I blame Fraud Lemieux.

Before you bring it up drop a glove in front of him. See what he does. That's usually a pretty good indicator...
- hereticpride

are you referring to a hockey fight?


i just want to keep things civil. i'm a very civil person. i may engage in wars of words, but it would take a real real lot to get me to become physically violent. i hope he admits he's wrong and is cool about it.

not until i give him the chance to make it right. i owe him that. he makes good, all's forgiven. and i trust he will. hopefully things don't get ugly. i just want my car fixed and a fair shake.
- flyerscup2011

Has he done anything to the car yet?

how about flyers/sabes game 7 last year? (aside from a fat guy wearing the c)
- OrangeBlack27

Meh. That was "only" 5 goals.

Since this city remembers the low times more than the high times, I went with how bad we felt in 2001 and 2006 as that is how I want the Pens and their fans to feel.

Agreed. And I've stated the same on here a few times this season. One of two things has to happen for this to change imo.

1) The NHLPA cops out and says we're babies and we can't control ourselves. Please suspend and fine the snot out of the bad apples so they get the message because we're too weak to deliver the message ourselves.

2) The NHLPA gets serious and let's the NHL raise the fine ceiling to $100K, agrees to add a rep to stand alongside Shanahan, and doesn't wussy on tough suspensions.

Plus the refs have to get clearer directives and get with calling the REAL penalties instead of just catching every stick breaking slash or puck over the glass call.
- rockychocbill

rocky you are on fire today, this is dead on target

That's a lot of money. That sucks. Guess it would be a good idea to go talk to the police at this point.
- Dkos

yea, he owes me big time. i won't go there unless he refuses to make good. other wise it's metal bracelets.

Before you bring it up drop a glove in front of him. See what he does. That's usually a pretty good indicator...
- hereticpride

are you referring to a hockey fight?


i just want to keep things civil. i'm a very civil person. i may engage in wars of words, but it would take a real real lot to get me to become physically violent. i hope he admits he's wrong and is cool about it.
- flyerscup2011

I was referring to Sid swatting away Jake's glove.

I think its absolutely possible to embrace the physicality and toughness of the game without all the crap that goes over the line.

Beyond the Pens vs Flyers, the NHL is IMHO reaching a crossroads with regards to player conduct, but the amazing thing is that I think that many in league management don't even want to recognize the extent of the problem. Because of the head in the sand mentality that the NHL employs, and the inability to administer consistent discipline, this will continue until someone gets paralyzed or killed during a "hockey play". No matter what, one thing that absolutely needs to change is the max fine of $2500 in the next CBA. You don't have to see any further than the NFL example of severe fines for headshots as a way to manage player behavior....but its all moot until the NHL takes a hard look in the mirror and decides there is actually a problem.
- Emperor Filonius

The NHL has to decide if it will let the players force opposing teams to have respect or whether the NHL will force them to. It's really as simple as that.

You hear so much about guys today not having respect for one another...well, if there weren't Rick Tocchets and Dave Browns back in the 1980's guys would have done the same things then.

If you want to reduce fights, and eliminate the headshots and cheap play, you have to slam guys when they cross the line. Star or not. Injury or not.

I blame Fraud Lemieux.


- Flyskippy

My cat never turtles.

I blame Fraud Lemieux.


- Flyskippy

He was a contributor to that mindset.

Has he done anything to the car yet?
- RooNosHockey

he's done a good bit, but like i said he took my money for repairs, and didn't do some. so far he has had a friend replace 2 tires that's the 165. replaced my exhaust and replaced my o2 censor that's the 410. the 610 is the mystery to me, well was. now i know he just stole my money. he also includeed in the 610 my o2 censor, my power windows and the speedometer. none of those things were touched.

edit: the o2 censor was done, but he charged me for it twice oh and he did an oil change that was part of the 610. so far that has probably been the most expensive oil change in history

Got to remember, Shanahan answers to the owners and GMs. The league has to decide if it's going to go back to letting the players police the game and force opposing players to have more respect or if the NHL is going to step up and enforce respect.

The reason there was "respect" back in the day was because if you hit Wayne Gretzky, Dave Semenko was going to be paying you a visit, and if you turtled, your teammates would lose respect for you. Now, turtling gets you a five minute PP.
- Jsaquella

This. I don't think that at this point you can go back to the way things were. Not with the debate about concussions and head shots. The ONLY answer is longer suspensions and much stiffer fines.


Also, don't make a decision on a suspension based on whether the guy that got hit illegally got hurt or not. Its idiotic to give an offending player a pass because his target doesn't miss the next 10 games or so.

My cat never turtles.
- bodiva88

My cat, Clarke, swats at ankles.

They pretty much have to make an example of somebody at this point, don't they? It wouldn't be undeserved, but it will still be seen by some as a token gesture against a repeat offender...like the example should be made of someone else.

Shanny had a chance to take a stand with Weber. He chose not to. His office lost a lot of juice with that one.
- tangent_man

honestly, what the hell happened with Shanny? He seemed like the perfect guy for the job: a no-nonsense, tough-as-nails player who hated cheap shots as much as any fan.

He's just not up to the task. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he resigned after this year.

the other problem with the the violence in the playoffs this season, they are pointing to the fact that interest has gone way up, the ratings are better and they are all driven by the bottom line

The instigator penalty must go.


RESCIND!
- tangent_man

Or, make the instigator make sense.

Rather than hit Adams with it, hit Crosby or Hartnell with it. Those two were why there was a fight. You nail Crosby for jawing or Hartnell for not letting go of Crosby's stick and boom.