I guess it's a good thing for lundqvist and quick that the season actually starts in october, and the stats before Jan 11 also count. if you look at the WHOLE SEASON, and not just samples that help your argument, then lundqvist is the winner, quick is behind him, and then fleury, rinne, howard come in behind them.
- sensarmy_11

I guess its a good thing that wins matter to people who understand hockey. Those same people also understand that winning when it counts matters more than winning in october. Its not just harder for the players to score goals at this time of year its also much harder on goalies. If your going by stats for the WHOLE SEASON just give it to elliot and forget about hank. If you look at wins over the WHOLE SEASON MAF had 6 more than hank and ill do the math for ya, thats 12 points more for his team he has got. SOOOOO what exactly makes you so sure about your picks?

What a silly statement. They 'probably' make the playoffs without Fleury, but with him they are a threat to win the President's Trophy.

Rangers 'probably' make the playoffs without Lundqvist too.


I'm curious though, who are the 7-9 goalies you view as better than Fleury?
- nhindian

Regarding your first paragraph: Agree, which I myself said later in the same paragraph you reference. I'm not saying Fleury is bad because he plays on a good team. Fleury is good and plays on a good team. All I was illustrating is that it's a lot easier to rack up wins (which are a TEAM stat, not a goalie stat) in Pittsburgh than just about anywhere else, which is why wins is not a fair way to compare Fleury and, say, Jonathan Quick.

Those arguing for Lundqvist/Quick/Rinne based solely on shots faced or save% clearly don't have a full understanding of the game. Those defensive systems and especially the Rangers shot blocking prowess dictate that most of those shots against are from poor scoring areas. I'm willing to bet that MAF faces as many, if not more quality scoring chances per game as any of those goalies despite facing less shots...skewing those save% numbers true value. Find me stats for save% on just quality scoring chances and then I'll listen to a strictly selective stats based argument. MAF is easily the best in the league in shootouts...a stat that does isolate a goalies skill level without any team play involved.

I can't wait for the argument 15 years from now..."Fleury, yeah, sure he won a lot of games and was great, but he played behind that great team with Malkin and Crosby, but he never won a Vezina, so how can he be a hall of famer?????"
- Emperor Filonius

It will just be a rehashing of the arguments against Grant Fuhr. Except Fuhr did win a Vezina in 1988. Which was a season in which the Oilers scored 363 goals and gave up 280. Fuhr also had a 3.44 GAA and a .881 S%.

dude, like i said, i'm not saying fleury isn't a great goalie. the guy is NO DOUBT a big game goalie, and going in to the playoffs, there are very few goalies playing right now that i'd take over him. i'm simply talking about the vezina trophy for THIS SEASON. unfortunately, that big save he makes to keep them in it is far less important (when considering the award) then the 3 goals he already gave up.

again, fleury is great, i'd take him on my team 6 days a week and twice on sunday, but his numbers don't justify him winning the vezina over lundqvist or quick this year. I'd put fleury in a pack with Rinne, the St Louis Duo, and Jimmy Howard....all are GREAT goalies, who just aren't quite as good as the other 2, this year.
- sensarmy_11

No I know you weren't. Just that he fits this particular team so well. I dont think any other goalie in the league could play behind this team because they leave Fleury open to so many quality chances.

So I know you weren't bashing him, just that the Penguins are the best come from behind team this year, and he has a lot to do with it....

I dont think he will get in the top 3 in the Vesina, but if was to select a goalie that wins games, it would be him hands down.

Take a look

https://lh6.googleusercon...s946/crosbysidebyside.gif
- Ben37

Awesome, thanks for posting that.

Henrik Lundqvist deserves the trophy. He has had a great season. Yes like the blogger says that he struggled in March but clearly if you look at his numbers, the rest of his season more than makes up for it.

Quick is the runner up in my opinion. He has also had a great season.

I don't think there is any way you can argue Fleury has had a better season than these two.

Now for third place. I'd say it comes down to Fleury and Rinne. Toss up really. Fleury has better GAA, Rinne has a better Save %.

If you think he deserves to win it you are straight up delusional or a big time homer.

Those arguing for Lundqvist/Quick/Rinne based solely on shots faced or save% clearly don't have a full understanding of the game. Those defensive systems and especially the Rangers shot blocking prowess dictate that most of those shots against are from poor scoring areas. I'm willing to bet that MAF faces as many, if not more quality scoring chances per game as any of those goalies despite facing less shots...skewing those save% numbers true value. Find me stats for save% on just quality scoring chances and then I'll listen to a strictly selective stats based argument. MAF is easily the best in the league in shootouts...a stat that does isolate a goalies skill level without any team play involved.
- Pags

Penalty shots Fleury has allowed 2 goals on 4 shots. Is he really the best in the league in shoot-outs? He may have the most wins, but Varlamov is 8-0 with a .917 save %. Fleury is behind a number of goalies in shoot-out save %. So no your statement is false.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpFf7vvHh8g

One of the best series of saves this year.
- Deadstar

Thanks this was very good. Steigy gets too excited though. What a homer. Yikes.

Penalty shots Fleury has allowed 2 goals on 4 shots. Is he really the best in the league in shoot-outs? He may have the most wins, but Varlamov is 8-0 with a .917 save %. Fleury is behind a number of goalies in shoot-out save %. So no your statement is false.
- zach parise9

All time SO % with at least 20 games played per season:

Rinne .788
Lundqvist .76
Hiller .75
Garon .75
Fleury .741
Quick .735

There are your leaders Ladies and Gents!

im still mad about losing out of the championship match up... i would have been 4 out of 5 leagues in the championship match up... stupid goalie

All time SO % with at least 20 games played per season:

Rinne .788
Lundqvist .76
Hiller .75
Garon .75
Fleury .741
Quick .735

There are your leaders Ladies and Gents!
- powerhouse

Yeah that really proves "MAF is easily the best in the league in shootouts".

Thank you Tampa!

Regarding your first paragraph: Agree, which I myself said later in the same paragraph you reference. I'm not saying Fleury is bad because he plays on a good team. Fleury is good and plays on a good team. All I was illustrating is that it's a lot easier to rack up wins (which are a TEAM stat, not a goalie stat) in Pittsburgh than just about anywhere else, which is why wins is not a fair way to compare Fleury and, say, Jonathan Quick.
- Sven22

That's easy to say in the past month when we are putting up almost 5 a game, but there were stretches at the beginning of the year that Fleury single-handedly won us close games when only Malkin and Neal were scoring.

I think it's pretty short-sighted to say it's easy to rack up wins in Pgh when it's only just recently that we actually have our whole line-up healthy.

Hell, the first game Crosby played in this recent comeback marked only the
11th time that Crosby, Malkin, and Staal played in the same game in TWO SEASONS

That's easy to say in the past month when we are putting up almost 5 a game, but there were stretches at the beginning of the year that Fleury single-handedly won us close games when only Malkin and Neal were scoring.

I think it's pretty short-sighted to say it's easy to rack up wins in Pgh when it's only just recently that we actually have our whole line-up healthy.

Hell, the first game Crosby played in this recent comeback marked only the
11th time that Crosby, Malkin, and Staal played in the same game in TWO SEASONS
- nhindian

With numbnuts theory, he probably doesn't believe Malkin deserves consideration for the MVP.

I tend to really enjoy your articles, but this is just plain wrong and disrespectful to goalies who deserve it more.

This is sad for an objective hockey fan to read.

I tend to really enjoy your articles, but this is just plain wrong and disrespectful to goalies who deserve it more.

This is sad for an objective hockey fan to read.
- Moshe52792

Sounds like us when people think the King deserves MVP over Malkin. Food for thought.

Lundqvist will win, Quick runner up, Fleury or Rinne will be third.

I personally think Quick deserves it more just because he doesn't have nearly as good of a team in front of him. Sure the Kings have some stars, but none of them are really playing all too well this year. Their lack of offense has screwed him out of getting as many wins as he deserves.

Fleury has been great this year, but I don't see how you can give him the trophy over Quick or Lundqvist.

Wow a 'snowing the goalie' got called as unsportsmanlike. Could you imagine being on the end of that call, as much as it happens during a game.....a board would melt down, esp. if a goal was scored on the ensuing power play

Edit: Damn I wish I could have started the year in the fantasy league, and gotten the team I'm sitting with now. I would have been top three. Next year, that league is mine!!

Lets Go Pens!!

Lets Go Minny!!

Going to game tonight and leaving work early what could be better.

I guess its a good thing that wins matter to people who understand hockey. Those same people also understand that winning when it counts matters more than winning in october. Its not just harder for the players to score goals at this time of year its also much harder on goalies. If your going by stats for the WHOLE SEASON just give it to elliot and forget about hank. If you look at wins over the WHOLE SEASON MAF had 6 more than hank and ill do the math for ya, thats 12 points more for his team he has got. SOOOOO what exactly makes you so sure about your picks?
- StabMastaArson

so what you're saying is that the ONLY stat that matters is number of wins?

dude, your arguments make no sense. so when considering the Hart, should they not look at someone's production prior to say the new year. when evaluating the adams, should they not count a teams success prior to the all-star break?

If all you look at is a sample size of around 30% of the entire season (which is EXACTLY what you did, 26 games), you can make a lot of players look like award winners.

there's a reason they play the whole season, and a reason the whole season counts.

Going to game tonight and leaving work early what could be better.
- powerhouse

nice! hopefully they put on a show tonight and come home with a win. safe trip.

Those arguing for Lundqvist/Quick/Rinne based solely on shots faced or save% clearly don't have a full understanding of the game. Those defensive systems and especially the Rangers shot blocking prowess dictate that most of those shots against are from poor scoring areas. I'm willing to bet that MAF faces as many, if not more quality scoring chances per game as any of those goalies despite facing less shots...skewing those save% numbers true value. Find me stats for save% on just quality scoring chances and then I'll listen to a strictly selective stats based argument. MAF is easily the best in the league in shootouts...a stat that does isolate a goalies skill level without any team play involved.
- Pags

FYI: Fleury is 9-2 in shootouts, Varlamov is 8-0 (Fleury save% in shootouts is .769, Varly's is .917).

FYI: Fleury is 9-2 in shootouts, Varlamov is 8-0 (Fleury save% in shootouts is .769, Varly's is .917).
- MadCap2008

Varly has also faced 15 less shots, shootout wise that is a ton.