I think Kronwall's visor is even worse than MAB's. And MAB's is utterly pointless.

That's the whole point of what I thought Rule 48 was about. Predatory hits to the head on players in a vulnerable position. But I guess not. Shanahan has suspended players for less and called hits predatory.
- MJL

OMG we agree.

I don't get how the wasn't a direct violation of the rule.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.

Voracek put himself in a vulnerable position and Kronwall saw that and had more than enough time to react but chose not to an injure the player.
- 2Real

i love when you show up to help us all rehash all 15 pages (thus far) of an unrelentingly unending argument.

I'll have to look at the video again. What I saw is that Voracek has his head turned slightly back and trying to get the puck off the wall, when there is about 15 feet between the two players. Kronwall sees that and goes in for the kill. At that point according to my understanding, which I guess is an inncorrect understanding, the onus should of been on Kronwall to hold up on the hit. And once the head is the point of contact, It becomes an illegal hit. I don't beleive that Kronwall purposely targeted the head, but that shouldn't matter.

Obviously the NHL disagrees with me.
- MJL

When Voracek is trying to corral the puck, he is facing the boards-at an angle. Almost immediately before contact, he turns slightly and is facing center ice. That's the circumstance that I feel the NHL used under Rule 48 to decline any supplemental discipline.

Personally, I'd have zero issues if Rule 48 is changed to unilaterally ban head contact.

Bill (if you are still around),
Was there any update on the injured players after the skate today?
JVR was said 6-8 weeks.
I would especially like to know about Mez and Timonen.
Are they still calling their return indefinite?

Jagr looked like he twisted his knee the way he skated off after the tumble.
And Jake looked unconscious at first but then pretty alert once he got to the bench.

I showed a red wings fan downie's hit on mcammond and he thought it was legal just like the kronwall hit he thought they were similar
- 2Real

ummmmmm downie jumped like 10 feet off the ice, launching himself like a torpedo at mcammond's head.

ummmmmm downie jumped like 10 feet off the ice, launching himself like a torpedo at mcammond's head.
- OrangeBlack27

take that up with the red wings fan i can give you his contact info if you want he said that he didn't launch himself and that the force of the hit caused him to go into the air

I don't get how the wasn't a direct violation of the rule.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.

Voracek put himself in a vulnerable position and Kronwall saw that and had more than enough time to react but chose not to an injure the player.
- 2Real

Try posting the ENTIRE rule, not just the cherry picked part that supports your argument.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

Voracek turned to face center ice just before contact. That is exactly the kind of thing the second section of Rule 48 gives leeway on.

NOT EVEN A HEARING??

Classic, cheap Kronwall hit. The manual is as follows: 1. charge; 2. use your elbow or your shoulder; 3. target the head; 4. catch a defenseless opponent; 5. leave your feet at the point of contact in order to launch into the hit; 6. drive your shoulder or elbow through his head; 7. blame it on the player for having his head down; 8. say you had no intent to injure player; and 9. refuse to back up your cheapshot when you are challenged by a player from the other team. REPEAT. All his hits are the same.

Bill (if you are still around),
Was there any update on the injured players after the skate today?
JVR was said 6-8 weeks.
I would especially like to know about Mez and Timonen.
Are they still calling their return indefinite?

Jagr looked like he twisted his knee the way he skated off after the tumble.
And Jake looked unconscious at first but then pretty alert once he got to the bench.
- Marc D

One of the beat guys tweeted that Jagr's going to try and skate tomorrow morning and will decide then if he can go.

i know i' not supposed to do this but

would HAVE

would HAVE

would HAVE

take that up with the red wings fan i can give you his contact info if you want he said that he didn't launch himself and that the force of the hit caused him to go into the air
- 2Real

i would love to talk to him. please give me his contact information and any credit card/bank account info if available.

Try posting the ENTIRE rule, not just the cherry picked part that supports your argument.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

Voracek turned to face center ice just before contact. That is exactly the kind of thing the second section of Rule 48 gives leeway on.
- Jsaquella

read my whole post it explains the 2nd half of the rule kronwall had more than enough time to adjust

take that up with the red wings fan i can give you his contact info if you want he said that he didn't launch himself and that the force of the hit caused him to go into the air
- 2Real

They're identical hits actually.

*Mezzy sighting at 35 sec in*

All I know is, what I wrote is more or less what Shanahan would say if he did have a video or written explanation. He's said as much on previous hits that went unpunished.

This is why I'd like a 5 person committee, so the onus is not on one guy.
- Jsaquella

But then with all the deliberation, the way the NHL does things, the penalties wouldn't get doled out 'til the following season

NOT EVEN A HEARING??

Classic, cheap Kronwall hit. The manual is as follows: 1. charge; 2. use your elbow or your shoulder; 3. target the head; 4. catch a defenseless opponent; 5. leave your feet at the point of contact in order to launch into the hit; 6. drive your shoulder or elbow through his head; 7. blame it on the player for having his head down; 8. say you had no intent to injure player; and 9. refuse to back up your cheapshot when you are challenged by a player from the other team. REPEAT. All his hits are the same.
- pharcyde

you know why cause shannahan played for the red wings

It is, however when Voracek turns up the ice, after corraling the puck along the wall, it's a split second between the turn and contact. That's where Rule 48 gives leeway.

Had Voracek been facing center ice through the entire sequence, I'd agree that mitigating factors written into Rule 48 would not have been met. But If Kronwall makes contact prior to Voracek turning, he likely doesn't make contact with the head.
- Jsaquella

I just watched the video again. Voracek was slightley turned to the boards right on top of the circle, and Kornhole was at the blueline... Voracek's body was mostly facing forward and the head was out front and down looking at the boards. Kronwall jumps forward to make the hit, and has about 5 feet to decide not to "step" into the hit. Voracek slightly turns forward and there is still about a 2 foot gap, with Voracek's head down. It was still a preditory hit with intent to injure with the first point of contact being the head.

Try posting the ENTIRE rule, not just the cherry picked part that supports your argument.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

Voracek turned to face center ice just before contact. That is exactly the kind of thing the second section of Rule 48 gives leeway on.
- Jsaquella

I agree with you. Its leeway on Rule 48. Kronwall didnt deliberately target the head of Voracek. Voracek put himself in a vulnerable position imo.

But then with all the deliberation, the way the NHL does things, the penalties wouldn't get doled out 'til the following season
- Lexington Flyer

Not really. Have teams submit all questionable hit to the NHL office, and the committee reviews the hits the next day. Simple majority decides suspension worthy or not and the length

read my whole post it explains the 2nd half of the rule kronwall had more than enough time to adjust
- 2Real

NK could have skated to the bench for a line change too. Doesn't make a lick of difference in this case.

briere is starting to turn me off big time, he goes around saying how everyone should act and be, never downs himself for a horrible season, and now he is embelishing everytime someone comes near him, i hope he gets back to playing hockey.
- mydoglicks

Couldn't agree more he is useless when not scoring. I have said he shoulda been traded plenty of times. Cracks me up how he can do no wrong. Yes people will say he is struggling but other players people want out of town. JVR is what 23 and was bothered by injuries all year and a lot of people wanted him gone. Briere on the other hand not much is said. Yes he is great during the playoffs, but the regular season is played ofr a reason. If briere was playing half decent maybe they would be better in the standings. Really whe you look at it thesecond half of last year he wasn't all that great either. He wasn't as bad as he is now. But he is the 6.5 mill man he neeeds to be way better. To think another three years of him is not good.

I just watched the video again. Voracek was slightley turned to the boards right on top of the circle, and Kornhole was at the blueline... Voracek's body was mostly facing forward and the head was out front and down looking at the boards. Kronwall jumps forward to make the hit, and has about 5 feet to decide not to "step" into the hit. Voracek slightly turns forward and there is still about a 2 foot gap, with Voracek's head down. It was still a preditory hit with intent to injure with the first point of contact being the head.
- RooNosHockey

Yep. Agreed. It IS a predatory hit. However, with the leeway provided by Rule 48, Kronwall gets no punishment. There's not even a half second between Voracek's slight turn and contact. If Voracek doesn't turn, Kronwall hits his shoulder.

There is nothing in the rule about predatory hits being illegal.

If the player puts himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to contact or simultaneous to the contact, then it's a mitigating factor. From watching the video, Voracek turns from the boards to center ice just before he gets hit. If he's still facing the boards, he's hit on the shoulder and not the face.
- Jsaquella

but kronwall committed to hit him after his head was down. that's the part that takes away voracek putting his head down. kronwall knew he was hitting voracek in the head and the hit was an intentional head hit. a clear violation of rule 48

I thought the point of a check is to separate the player from the puck, not his head from his body..

Couldn't agree more he is useless when not scoring. I have said he shoulda been traded plenty of times. Cracks me up how he can do no wrong. Yes people will say he is struggling but other players people want out of town. JVR is what 23 and was bothered by injuries all year and a lot of people wanted him gone. Briere on the other hand not much is said. Yes he is great during the playoffs, but the regular season is played ofr a reason. If briere was playing half decent maybe they would be better in the standings. Really whe you look at it thesecond half of last year he wasn't all that great either. He wasn't as bad as he is now. But he is the 6.5 mill man he neeeds to be way better. To think another three years of him is not good.
- PhillyFran

Briere has done a lot of great things for the Flyers in past regular seasons; and he's done a lot of outstanding things for the Flyers in past postseasons. Let's see if he can work himself out of this current slump - because as absurd as it sounds, hockey players do experience peaks and valleys.