The flip side is arguing intent. None of us are Kronwall, but I'm sure he was fully intending on laying a good lick on Voracek regardless of whether he was vulnerable or not.

The leeway in Rule 48 is the issue. You want to eliminate hits to the head, it HAS to be unilateral, with ZERO wiggle room.
- Jsaquella

Gray for sure...part deux

That's the part that is arguable. I don't know that Kronwall specifically targeted Voracek's head, but he sure as Hell knew that Voracek was looking down and was going to light him up for it.

It's a tough one. If the roles were reversed and Coburn had not stepped up on say, Zetterberg, he probably gets shredded here for being soft. Without unilaterally eliminating head shots, plays like that are going to occur.

Maybe if the instigator is gone, there'd be more respect-although there were a couple Flyers challenging Kronwall after the hit.
- Jsaquella

i don't really think Kronwall should have to fight after that hit. But what I'd like to see is every Flyer that has a good chance to hit him hard to take that chance. I think they did that. What was even more annoying than the hit was the 2 min. penalty on Rinaldo. I understand the circumstances, but I would have obviously preferred a misconduct rather than a 2 min. minor. Perhaps the ref gave him fair warning that he'd call the minor before making the call.

right, i don't know what the target was but we all know it wasn't the puck.

never been a fan of the instigator. I love the old stories from Brownie and Chief basically telling someone to cool it or else. that does not happen anymore.

Visor anyone? #sarcasm
- phi1671

The thing about the instigator is, I'm not sure that it matters anymore. Back in the day, a guy like Kronwall would get grief from his teammates for not being willing to face the music for his hitting. Nowadays, it's not a big deal if a guy turtles or refuses to fight.

That's the part that is arguable. I don't know that Kronwall specifically targeted Voracek's head, but he sure as Hell knew that Voracek was looking down and was going to light him up for it.

It's a tough one. If the roles were reversed and Coburn had not stepped up on say, Zetterberg, he probably gets shredded here for being soft. Without unilaterally eliminating head shots, plays like that are going to occur.

Maybe if the instigator is gone, there'd be more respect-although there were a couple Flyers challenging Kronwall after the hit.
- Jsaquella

That's the whole point of what I thought Rule 48 was about. Predatory hits to the head on players in a vulnerable position. But I guess not. Shanahan has suspended players for less and called hits predatory.

i don't really think Kronwall should have to fight after that hit. But what I'd like to see is every Flyer that has a good chance to hit him hard to take that chance. I think they did that. What was even more annoying than the hit was the 2 min. penalty on Rinaldo. I understand the circumstances, but I would have obviously preferred a misconduct rather than a 2 min. minor. Perhaps the ref gave him fair warning that he'd call the minor before making the call.
- wilsonecho91

The call on Rinaldo was bullpoop. No question about it. I think that the refs did a poor job last night in terms of consistent officiation.

The thing about the instigator is, I'm not sure that it matters anymore. Back in the day, a guy like Kronwall would get grief from his teammates for not being willing to face the music for his hitting. Nowadays, it's not a big deal if a guy turtles or refuses to fight.
- Jsaquella

it's all about the PP

Turtle time and your team will be on the PP

That's the whole point of what I thought Rule 48 was about. Predatory hits to the head on players in a vulnerable position. But I guess not. Shanahan has suspended players for less and called hits predatory.
- MJL

It is, however when Voracek turns up the ice, after corraling the puck along the wall, it's a split second between the turn and contact. That's where Rule 48 gives leeway.

Had Voracek been facing center ice through the entire sequence, I'd agree that mitigating factors written into Rule 48 would not have been met. But If Kronwall makes contact prior to Voracek turning, he likely doesn't make contact with the head.

it's all about the PP

Turtle time and your team will be on the PP
- phi1671

Yep. Absolutely.

I'd prefer seeing the instigator changed to punish the guy who actually starts the fight.

why hasn't kronwall been suspended yet (frank)ing joke if you ask me

if this was rinaldo he'd be crucified

The call on Rinaldo was bullpoop. No question about it. I think that the refs did a poor job last night in terms of consistent officiation.
- Jsaquella

Feel like there have been a lot of instances over the last few weeks where I've said to myself, "wow, i cannot believe they singled out one guy out of all of that".

why hasn't kronwall been suspended yet (frank)ing joke if you ask me

if this was rinaldo he'd be crucified
- 2Real

and you'd be female doging that it wasnt suspension worthy

why hasn't kronwall been suspended yet (frank)ing joke if you ask me

if this was rinaldo he'd be crucified
- 2Real

this bull's on point.

why hasn't kronwall been suspended yet (frank)ing joke if you ask me

if this was rinaldo he'd be crucified
- 2Real

no doubt what your saying about Zac has merit but in this case, he didn't lay the smackdown

can you smelllllllllll....anyway

why hasn't kronwall been suspended yet (frank)ing joke if you ask me

if this was rinaldo he'd be crucified
- 2Real

That was brought up in the LR after the optional skate today. Rinaldo smiled but didn't deny it.

That's the whole point of what I thought Rule 48 was about. Predatory hits to the head on players in a vulnerable position. But I guess not. Shanahan has suspended players for less and called hits predatory.
- MJL

That's why I'd like a statement from Shanahan (not McKenzie, not Voracek) about this decision. I look at that statement he made about the Cole suspension, about how even recklessly (quote: " whether intentionally or recklessly") making the head the principle point of contact should not be expected by any player, and it seems contrary to this decision. I suppose the difference is Voracek's turning, but I'd prefer to hear this from the man himself.

It is, however when Voracek turns up the ice, after corraling the puck along the wall, it's a split second between the turn and contact. That's where Rule 48 gives leeway.

Had Voracek been facing center ice through the entire sequence, I'd agree that mitigating factors written into Rule 48 would not have been met. But If Kronwall makes contact prior to Voracek turning, he likely doesn't make contact with the head.
- Jsaquella

Jake also looked up ice before this. He saw Kronwall there. Like Ferraro said this morning. There are certain players in this league that when you play against them you need to know where they are on the ice when you're out there. He said it was Curt Giles, Brian Marchment and Scott Stevens when he played.

and you'd be female doging that it wasnt suspension worthy
- Crimsoninja

because kronwall isn't suspended for the exact same hit

Feel like there have been a lot of instances over the last few weeks where I've said to myself, "wow, i cannot believe they singled out one guy out of all of that".
- OrangeBlack27

That's where the rep hurts Rinaldo.

But he's escaped a suspension with only a fine at least once this year-for that slew foot- and he has to prove that he's capable of staying on the right side of the line...it can happen-look at Matt Cooke. He's stayed out of trouble for the most part this year.

because kronwall isn't suspended for the exact same hit
- 2Real

no i mean if the kronwall hit never happened and rinaldo hit a re



forget it

That was brought up in the DR after the optional skate today. Rinaldo smiled but didn't deny it.
- bmeltzer

Fixed. Sorry.

It is, however when Voracek turns up the ice, after corraling the puck along the wall, it's a split second between the turn and contact. That's where Rule 48 gives leeway.

Had Voracek been facing center ice through the entire sequence, I'd agree that mitigating factors written into Rule 48 would not have been met. But If Kronwall makes contact prior to Voracek turning, he likely doesn't make contact with the head.
- Jsaquella

I'll have to look at the video again. What I saw is that Voracek has his head turned slightly back and trying to get the puck off the wall, when there is about 15 feet between the two players. Kronwall sees that and goes in for the kill. At that point according to my understanding, which I guess is an inncorrect understanding, the onus should of been on Kronwall to hold up on the hit. And once the head is the point of contact, It becomes an illegal hit. I don't beleive that Kronwall purposely targeted the head, but that shouldn't matter.

Obviously the NHL disagrees with me.

That was brought up in the LR after the optional skate today. Rinaldo smiled but didn't deny it.
- bmeltzer

I don't get how the wasn't a direct violation of the rule.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted.

Voracek put himself in a vulnerable position and Kronwall saw that and had more than enough time to react but chose not to an injure the player.

Jake also looked up ice before this. He saw Kronwall there. Like Ferraro said this morning. There are certain players in this league that when you play against them you need to know where they are on the ice when you're out there. He said it was Curt Giles, Brian Marchment and Scott Stevens when he played.
- rockychocbill

That's the other thing. You need to be aware not only of where you are, but who is out there against you.

The fortunate news is, so far Jake hasn't had any concussion symptoms and seems to be doing OK. They need to be prudent, but if he goes another 24-48 hours symptom free, he should be OK.

That said, I'm amazed he got up.

no i mean if the kronwall hit never happened and rinaldo hit a re



forget it
- Crimsoninja

no i mean if the kronwall hit never happened and rinaldo hit a re



forget it
- Crimsoninja

I showed a red wings fan downie's hit on mcammond and he thought it was legal just like the kronwall hit he thought they were similar