No, they're not really contenders with or without these guys. Compare the lineups to the likes of the top teams in either conference, and it's not in Ottawa's favour.



That's what I think is the best case scenario for the Sens. Don't risk it.
- Dirte

Do you not think, that if Ottawa had their best three offensive players 100% healthy and in the line up, plus one of their top "shutdown" defencman, they would not be contenders?

There is a difference between "contenders" and "top contenders".

The Kings wee not considered either last year and managed quite well.

Don't forget, Ottawa's has the third best goals against per game in the NHL, and that's without all their top players in the line up

Do you not think, that if Ottawa had their best three offensive players 100% healthy and in the line up, plus one of their top "shutdown" defencman, they would not be contenders?

There is a difference between "contenders" and "top contenders".

The Kings wee not considered either last year and managed quite well.

Don't forget, Ottawa's has the third best goals against per game in the NHL, and that's without all their top players in the line up
- Doppleganger

No, I don’t think they’d be any sort of contenders. Comparisons to the Kings from various team’s fans need to stop. They’re the first team ever to win past the 5th seed. They added two top players, to an already stacked roster that was trying to compensate for some terrible play early in the year. They are not the norm. Lineup the rosters side by side with teams like Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh, and the Sens come out a fair bit behind, like most other teams in the league.

No, I don’t think they’d be any sort of contenders. Comparisons to the Kings from various team’s fans need to stop. They’re the first team ever to win past the 5th seed. They added two top players, to an already stacked roster that was trying to compensate for some terrible play early in the year. They are not the norm. Lineup the rosters side by side with teams like Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh, and the Sens come out a fair bit behind, like most other teams in the league.
- Dirte

I think you are purposely underestimating Ottawa's line up IF all their injured players were back in the line up, and 100% healthy, and with one of the best goaltenders in the league..................simply to stir the crap here.

Right now, all their secondary players are playing in place of the top players, and if they were NOT playing against the opponents top defenders, they would flourish offensively.

I think you are purposely underestimating Ottawa's line up IF all their injured players were back in the line up, and 100% healthy, and with one of the best goaltenders in the league..................simply to stir the crap here.

Right now, all their secondary players are playing in place of the top players, and if they were NOT playing against the opponents top defenders, they would flourish offensively.
- Doppleganger

There's an argument both ways.

It's not something that can "proven" either way. Is it a little cheeky for him to make claims that couldn't possibly be disproven? absolutely. Is it generally fruitless for you to make a counter-claim that in turn can't possibly be disproven? I think so.

Maybe in an alternate universes, the Sens are on their way to winning the presidents trophy. At least it's something you can look forward to next year.

I think you are purposely underestimating Ottawa's line up IF all their injured players were back in the line up, and 100% healthy, and with one of the best goaltenders in the league..................simply to stir the crap here.

Right now, all their secondary players are playing in place of the top players, and if they were NOT playing against the opponents top defenders, they would flourish offensively.
- Doppleganger

tooootally. totally

There's an argument both ways.

It's not something that can "proven" either way. Is it a little cheeky for him to make claims that couldn't possibly be disproven? absolutely. Is it generally fruitless for you to make a counter-claim that in turn can't possibly be disproven? I think so.

Maybe in an alternate universes, the Sens are on their way to winning the presidents trophy. At least it's something you can look forward to next year.
- Morris

Well, you're right, we will never know how well Ottawa would have done in this regular season if all their players who were injured, were not, and played at least as well as last season.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that they would be in contention for the division lead or at worst a "home" playoff seed.

To totally dismiss them, as our leaf fan friend has, is simply foolish, naive or he's just trying to be purposely provocative.

I think Ottawa would be solid without the injuries. I'd consider them a cup contender (if healthy) even though there are at least a few teams in each conference I'd take over them. They'd have a shot at least.

I think you are purposely underestimating Ottawa's line up IF all their injured players were back in the line up, and 100% healthy, and with one of the best goaltenders in the league..................simply to stir the crap here.

Right now, all their secondary players are playing in place of the top players, and if they were NOT playing against the opponents top defenders, they would flourish offensively.
- Doppleganger

You’re welcome to your opinion. I could just as easily say you’re overestimating your lineup for the purpose of argument. It’s my opinion that when you look at the rosters of the cup winners over the past 10 years, the Sens current roster does not match up. At all. When you look at the rosters of the top teams this year, again, they don’t match up. Even when 100% healthy. Spezza – Michalek – way past his prime Alfredsson – Turris – rookies, does not match up with Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Seguin, Horton, Jagr, etc, etc, etc, by a long shot. These teams can assemble three LETHAL lines up front. The same thing can be done with the defense. Anderson has been unreal in the games he’s played this season, but even Rask doesn’t match up badly. You can do the same thing with Pittsburgh, Chicago, and LA this year, and most, if not all rosters that have made the finals over the past many seasons. I’m sorry, I just don’t see it. Add another very good line up front, and very good pairing on D, then maybe you’re talking. I think you underestimate what it takes to win a cup.

I think Ottawa would be solid without the injuries. I'd consider them a cup contender (if healthy) even though there are at least a few teams in each conference I'd take over them. They'd have a shot at least.
- daeth

I agree, getting past Pittsburgh, Boston and Montreal (all having home ice advantage) will be tough for any of the lower seeds.

Ottawa, without the injuries, would have most likely been one of the teams with home ice advantage in the first round, and would, without the injuries, have probably advanced to at least the second round.

I agree, getting past Pittsburgh, Boston and Montreal (all having home ice advantage) will be tough for any of the lower seeds.

Ottawa, without the injuries, would have most likely been one of the teams with home ice advantage in the first round, and would, without the injuries, have probably advanced to at least the second round.
- Doppleganger

No, not second round at least. I take that as you’re essentially saying that third round is likely, which puts them top 2 in the conference. As others have said as well, there are at least a couple of teams that would be seeded ahead of the Sens on each side. When you say second round at least, it implies a top 2, or at most 3, team in the conference. As I said before, I think it is you that is underestimating what it takes to get to the places you’re suggesting.

No, not second round at least. I take that as you’re essentially saying that third round is likely, which puts them top 2 in the conference. As others have said as well, there are at least a couple of teams that would be seeded ahead of the Sens on each side. When you say second round at least, it implies a top 2, or at most 3, team in the conference. As I said before, I think it is you that is underestimating what it takes to get to the places you’re suggesting.
- Dirte

Perhaps you're not aware, Ottawa WITHOUT their top three offensive players and one of their top defencemen, has one of the best Home records in the conference.

So, since we are speaking about IF the injured players were not injured and in the line up, Ottawa probably would have locked up a top four seed, and home ice advantage for at least the first round.

Any sane person could see that it's not much of a stretch to see Ottawa advance to the second round, in this scenario.

Perhaps you're not aware, Ottawa WITHOUT their top three offensive players and one of their top defencemen, has one of the best Home records in the conference.

So, since we are speaking about IF the injured players were not injured and in the line up, Ottawa probably would have locked up a top four seed, and home ice advantage for at least the first round.

Any sane person could see that it's not much of a stretch to see Ottawa advance to the second round, in this scenario.


- Doppleganger

Nothing you can say will change that the players I listed above don't stack up against the rosters I mentioned.

I think most would say Pittsburgh and Boston are the top teams in the conference. What is Ottawa's record, at home, against them?

Nothing you can say will change that the players I listed above don't stack up against the rosters I mentioned.
- Dirte

I know that, you can't bring yourself to say anything remotely positive about the Senators.

But as you can see, you're along in this, aren't you?

I know that, you can't bring yourself to say anything remotely positive about the Senators.

But as you can see, you're along in this, aren't you?
- Doppleganger

Do you honestly believe that the Senators stack up well against Pittsburgh, Boston, and even Montreal, enough to say that they would be in AT LEAST the second round, implying likely even the third round?

And, as I added in above, you justify this by saying that IF they had home ice, they have a strong record there.... Okay, so, to get to the third round, do you feel that their record against, Boston and Pittsburgh, on home ice (one of which they'd likely have to beat to get to the third round), justifies saying they'd likely get to the third round?

Do you honestly believe that the Senators stack up well against Pittsburgh, Boston, and even Montreal, enough to say that they would be in AT LEAST the second round, implying likely even the third round?

And, as I added in above, you justify this by saying that IF they had home ice, they have a strong record there.... Okay, so, to get to the third round, do you feel that their record against, Boston and Pittsburgh, on home ice (one of which they'd likely have to beat to get to the third round), justifies saying they'd likely get to the third round?
- Dirte

Perhaps my wording could have been more clear, for I am NOT implying they would have a chance at advancing to the Conference finals, as you seem to think...............even though I've not said as much.

But I know you need to grab onto anything however so innocuous, to use as your platform of bashing the Senators..............I get it, you don't like the Senators and can't imagine how much better of a team they would have been this season, with last year's fourth overall points leader, the Norris trophy winner, a 35 goal scorer, their starting goaltender and one of their top shutdown defenseman in line up for the entire season.


I'm sure you feel the leafs would still have ended up higher in the conference, right?

Sens miss playoffs

Perhaps my wording could have been more clear, for I am NOT implying they would have a chance at advancing to the Conference finals, as you seem to think...............even though I've not said as much.

But I know you need to grab onto anything however so innocuous, to use as your platform of bashing the Senators..............I get it, you don't like the Senators and can't imagine how much better of a team they would have been this season, with last year's fourth overall points leader, the Norris trophy winner, a 35 goal scorer, their starting goaltender and one of their top shutdown defenseman in line up for the entire season.

I'm sure you feel the leafs would still have ended up higher in the conference, right?
- Doppleganger

As I've said many times, saying AT LEAST the second round implies to me that you think the third round is a very good chance. Which, as I explained many times, I think highly unlikely, and given my rationale. I am not bashing anyone. I said that very clearly in my first response, and you replied in an irrational, irate fashion. I have not changed what I said one bit since then, as much as you've tried to manipulate it.

Do I feel the Leafs would still have ended up higher in the conference? Potentially, if you want to play the game you're playing, if they hadn't lost a point per game player for most of the season, their starting goaltender for a portion of the season, their second highest even strength ice time and second highest scoring Dman from last year, another one of their top young wingers, they'd still end up higher than the Sens, yes. I mean, it's looking like it could be a good 8 or 10 point difference by the end of the season, so, if you want to say that "if the Sens had no injuries, and the Leafs were stuck with all the ones they had, maybe the Sens would finish higher", then I'm not going to argue, but it's a pretty stupid comparison.

I very clearly articulated what I meant:

No, not second round at least. I take that as you’re essentially saying that third round is likely, which puts them top 2 in the conference. As others have said as well, there are at least a couple of teams that would be seeded ahead of the Sens on each side. When you say second round at least, it implies a top 2, or at most 3, team in the conference. As I said before, I think it is you that is underestimating what it takes to get to the places you’re suggesting.
- Dirte

So, if you were being rational, and not trying to argue, you would have simply replied that with those players in the lineup, you don't consider them a top 2 or 3 team in the conference.

Sens miss playoffs
- the_cause2000

wanna bet on that?

As I've said many times, saying AT LEAST the second round implies to me that you think the third round is a very good chance. Which, as I explained many times, I think highly unlikely, and given my rationale. I am not bashing anyone. I said that very clearly in my first response, and you replied in an irrational, irate fashion. I have not changed what I said one bit since then, as much as you've tried to manipulate it.

Do I feel the Leafs would still have ended up higher in the conference? Potentially, if you want to play the game you're playing, if they hadn't lost a point per game player for most of the season, their starting goaltender for a portion of the season, their second highest even strength ice time and second highest scoring Dman from last year, another one of their top young wingers, they'd still end up higher than the Sens, yes. I mean, it's looking like it could be a good 8 or 10 point difference by the end of the season, so, if you want to say that "if the Sens had no injuries, and the Leafs were stuck with all the ones they had, maybe the Sens would finish higher", then I'm not going to argue, but it's a pretty stupid comparison.

I very clearly articulated what I meant:



So, if you were being rational, and not trying to argue, you would have simply replied that with those players in the lineup, you don't consider them a top 2 or 3 team in the conference.
- Dirte

You're the only one who did not know what I meant. Wow, should that surprise me?


Stop being such a prock.

You're the only one who did not know what I meant. Wow, should that surprise me?


Stop being such a prock.
- Doppleganger

when you said "EASILY" second round? You're now basically admitting to outside the top 3 in the conference. 4th or 5th. That's more likely "lucky to get past the second round", given that only 2 teams from each conference do.

when you said "EASILY" second round? You're now basically admitting to outside the top 3 in the conference. 4th or 5th. That's more likely "lucky to get past the second round", given that only 2 teams from each conference do.
- Dirte

I get it, you don't understand what everyone else did.
Yes, you're a little slow on the up take, and even though I've explained this ad-nauseam, you still can't manage to get past it.

There is help out there for people like you, I encourage you to seek it out.

This is a very interesting thread. How did it start?

This is a very interesting thread. How did it start?
- spatso

With a clear objective observation.

There has been lots of banter about the kid and questions about just how good he can be.

In his third season Bobbie Orr played 67 games, he finished with 64 points including 21 goals. This was in a high scoring era. If you compare Orr and Karllson over the first three years of their respective careers, I believe that the kid has a small lead in overall point total.

Orr exploded in his fourth year. But, up to that fourth year many questioned his defensive play.

Spezza is having a wonderful year. But the kid is very close to him in being the difference maker for the Senators.
- spatso

And now with one Norris trophy on his mantle, the jury is in and has made it's decision.

I bet there is no way Phoenix parts with Rundblad. That is one incredible failure on Murray's part to deal a prospect like that, AND a second, for a piece of junk. You need to realize how insidious Murray's failures are.
- prock

Well they kinda have parted with Rundblad, in the sense that they've banished him to the Portland Pirates of the AHL..........after only 8 games at the NHL level this season.




BTW, Alex Ovechkin is chomping at the bit for tonight's game, know that he will NOT have to contend with Eric Karlsson stripping him of the puck, time and time again.

http://video.senators.nhl...sole?catid=1141&id=240615


Norris trophy winner Eric Karlsson, who suffered a 70 per-cent tear to his Achilles in a game against Pittsburgh Penguins back in February, was expected to miss the remainder of the season, but his return now seems like a real possibility, after took part in practice drills and didn't seem to be showing any signs of discomfort.