I think that lots of names get tossed around about who is the best comparable with the kid. I'm inclined to think that Scott Niedemayer is the gold standard. He played the game really well, he was a beautiful skater, controlled the power play and always was able to anticipate and find the open man with a breakout pass. More important, Niedemayer was a winner. Great Dmen help their teams compete for the Stanley Cup.

Ottawa has an incredible array of young talent. They are going to be very strong a few years out. They are going to score a lot of goals. But, can Karlsson push them to compete for a Stanley Cup. This is the real test for every Norris winner.
- spatso

Niedemayer had a few tools that Karlsson has not shown he has yet, but may develop them over time. Niedemayer would occasionally block shots, and be willing to take the "Big hit" in order to make the "play" when required, and Karlsson has not shown much strengthen in this area yet.

Niedemayer had a few tools that Karlsson has not shown he has yet, but may develop them over time. Niedemayer would occasionally block shots, and be willing to take the "Big hit" in order to make the "play" when required, and Karlsson has not shown much strengthen in this area yet.
- Doppleganger

Like playing defense.

Like playing defense.
- prock

You said that all last season, and have eaten crow ever since. You would think you'd have learnt your lesson.


Scott Niedamayer' best season statistically was 69 pts and was a + 6
Karlsson' best season statistically was 78 pts and a was + 16

You said that all last season, and have eaten crow ever since. You would think you'd have learnt your lesson.


Scott Niedamayer' best season statistically was 69 pts and was a + 6
Karlsson' best season statistically was 78 pts and a was + 16
- Doppleganger

The Niedamayer/Karlsson comparison has lots of legs. When Karlsson came to Ottawa for the world juniors it was clear that he wanted and expected to win. More important, he accepted the fact that he was responsible for making it happen. I believe the very best players have that special winning edge and the confidence that comes with it. Niedamayer certainly was able to find it when it mattered. Lidstrom is another who knows how to win. I think the kid also has it and potentially, fits into that group. The difference is that Niedemayer and Lidstrom have actually done it.

I will be more impressed to see the kid win a Conn Smyth than score 100 points. Great Dmen make everyone around them better. The kid has shown that he has that ability. But can he carry the team to the top of the mountain?

You said that all last season, and have eaten crow ever since. You would think you'd have learnt your lesson.


Scott Niedamayer' best season statistically was 69 pts and was a + 6
Karlsson' best season statistically was 78 pts and a was + 16
- Doppleganger

Eat crow? If I was "eating crow", why would I still be saying it? He can't play d.

The Niedamayer/Karlsson comparison has lots of legs. When Karlsson came to Ottawa for the world juniors it was clear that he wanted and expected to win. More important, he accepted the fact that he was responsible for making it happen. I believe the very best players have that special winning edge and the confidence that comes with it. Niedamayer certainly was able to find it when it mattered. Lidstrom is another who knows how to win. I think the kid also has it and potentially, fits into that group. The difference is that Niedemayer and Lidstrom have actually done it.

I will be more impressed to see the kid win a Conn Smyth than score 100 points. Great Dmen make everyone around them better. The kid has shown that he has that ability. But can he carry the team to the top of the mountain?
- spatso

The Kid... are we talking about Crosby?... I though he was called the Kid

Eric the Kid... doesnt roll off the tongue

Eat crow? If I was "eating crow", why would I still be saying it? He can't play d.
- prock

Was was voted "Best Defenceman" in the NHL last season.

Stop now before you make a fool of yourself, like you did last year.

He can't play d.
- prock

They said that about Coffey too. Keep in mind that Karlsson is still just 22.

Crow soup for you.

The Kid... are we talking about Crosby?... I though he was called the Kid

Eric the Kid... doesnt roll off the tongue
- senstroll

I liberally use the term the kid and apply it to all young players, especially the high achievers on ELC. I used the term here on another thread in discussing Gardiner. It is my way of reminding others how young these guys are in relation to potential. You often hear veteran players referring to younger players in exactly the same way. It gives context to the situation by reminding others that the player still has significant upside for improvement.

I liberally use the term the kid and apply it to all young players, especially the high achievers on ELC. I used the term here on another thread in discussing Gardiner. It is my way of reminding others how young these guys are in relation to potential. You often hear veteran players referring to younger players in exactly the same way. It gives context to the situation by reminding others that the player still has significant upside for improvement.
- spatso

You got it Kid!

They said that about Coffey too. Keep in mind that Karlsson is still just 22.

Crow soup for you.
- dawgzhouse

With a crow wing sandwich on the side

Read a feature in Hockey News magazine comparing third year results for Orr, Coffey and Karlsson. They took each players ppg totals and indexed the result against overall league performance. I was surprised to see the kid finish ahead of both Orr and Coffey in the comparison.

5 points for Karlsson in today's game for Jokerit so he ends up with 34 points (9 goals) in 30 games.

They said that about Coffey too. Keep in mind that Karlsson is still just 22.

Crow soup for you.
- dawgzhouse

Coffee was not an elite DEFENCEman if points are not factored in; he was an elite player because of his offensive skills.

But this is all like the MVP vs. Outstanding player debates; it all depends on perspective and the parameters defined.

Coffee was not an elite DEFENCEman
- ght120

But Paul Coffey was....

Coffee was not an elite DEFENCEman
- ght120

But if you added a little cream and sugar.............he would have been!

But Paul Coffey was....
- watsonnostaw

LOL - The "Y" adds little to his defensive game. Didn't say he was a pylon, just not elite defensively.

NHL.com detailed stats don't go back far enough to analyze Coffey, but he wasn't the first (or last) defenceman to win a Norris for his offence.

Looking at last season there is no doubt Karlsson won because of the points he scored, not because he was anywhere near the best defensively.

Karlson was +16 with 50 even strength points, so he was -34 when on the ice at even strength and the Sens didn't score.

The "adjusted" +/- for the other top 10 scoring defencemen was Byfuglien (-41), Campbell (-31), Chara (0), Pietrangelo (-10), Weber (-4), Edler (-26), Boyle (-21), Streit (-51) and Wideman (-34). Chara and Weber were demonstrably better defencemen at even strength.

Shorthanded play is the other major measure of defensive skill. Chara lead the Bruins defencemen in shorthanded min/game. On Nashville Weber was second behind Hal Gill, who is a virtual SH specialist. Karlsson was 7th on the Sens, behind Kuba, Cowen, Phillips, Gonchar, Gilroy and **CARKNER**.

But if you added a little cream and sugar.............he would have been!
- Doppleganger

I like my defencemen straight up, nothing to sweeten them or take off the rough edge. LOL

Read a feature in Hockey News magazine comparing third year results for Orr, Coffey and Karlsson. They took each players ppg totals and indexed the result against overall league performance. I was surprised to see the kid finish ahead of both Orr and Coffey in the comparison.
- spatso

Did you see the opening segment on HNIC yesterday afternoon?

If so, did you notice when the panel was previewing the first game, and were showing highlights of Norris trophy winner Ottawa Senator Eric Karlsson surgically stripping the puck away for Alex Ovechkin time and time again?

Did you see the opening segment on HNIC yesterday afternoon?

If so, did you notice when the panel was previewing the first game, and were showing highlights of Norris trophy winner Ottawa Senator Eric Karlsson surgically stripping the puck away for Alex Ovechkin time and time again?
- Doppleganger

Prock told us that never really happened. Do you think the CBC photoshopped the tape simply to make it appear like Karlsson was able to easily take the puck off Ovechkin?

The only way Karlsson improves on last year is if he becomes a serious MVP candidate. Ottawa would need to knock off Boston on top of the Northeast. Could happen but probably a year early.

Prock told us that never really happened. Do you think the CBC photoshopped the tape simply to make it appear like Karlsson was able to easily take the puck off Ovechkin?

The only way Karlsson improves on last year is if he becomes a serious MVP candidate. Ottawa would need to knock off Boston on top of the Northeast. Could happen but probably a year early.
- spatso

Ottawa finished 10 points back of Boston last year, and with this gimmicky 48 game season closing that gap, whatever it may be, might be a huge task. With ALL games being 4 point games who knows what will happen. Also Tim Thomas had Ottawa's number for a few seasons, so that could figure into the calculation.

good start to the season: 3 GP 2G 2A +5

It's also quite possible he wins the FEL defencemen scoring title despite only playing 30 games

good start to the season: 3 GP 2G 2A +5

It's also quite possible he wins the FEL defencemen scoring title despite only playing 30 games
- Asquaredx2

His defensive play has been amazing. He dominates the neutral zone and it is uncanny how he is able to counter attack so easily.

Just a matter of time before teams try to chip and chase around Karlsson coming out of their own end. It will slow Karlsson down but it will give the Senators a good deal of control over the neutral zone.

Yeah if you look at his goal yesterday - even beyond how good of a shot he made - very few other defenders could have scored that. It was a combination of great anticipation in reading the other team's breakout (combined with the confidence to go for the interception), then great vision to see and wait for Methot to get out of the offensive zone, and then great acceleration to pull away from other Florida players from a standstill (even if it was Kovalev on the backcheck). Looked like Patrick Kane for a second.

He's also averaged over 3 minutes per game on the PK so far but the season is young.

Yeah if you look at his goal yesterday - even beyond how good of a shot he made - very few other defenders could have scored that. It was a combination of great anticipation in reading the other team's breakout (combined with the confidence to go for the interception), then great vision to see and wait for Methot to get out of the offensive zone, and then great acceleration to pull away from other Florida players from a standstill (even if it was Kovalev on the backcheck). Looked like Patrick Kane for a second.

He's also averaged over 3 minutes per game on the PK so far but the season is young.
- Asquaredx2

I wonder how MacLean coaches around this? So much of Karlsson's play is spontaneous, improvisational and contrary to what is hockey predictable. I am assuming as teams move to try and shut him down it will create time and space for everyone else.

He certainly looks like he is playing at a higher level than last year. And, not just a bit higher. The season is early. But it looks like he has taken his play to a whole new zone.