Which one is the best defensive player?
- Morris

Is the Norris decided solely on who is the best defensive player? Or do they consider play at both ends of the ice?

1 point in 7 playoff games..that is not very Orr like

That Norris candidates should be good defensive players? I guess they don't.
- prock

They should be usually but when a guy has a once a decade type offensive season he pretty much has to be a finalist even if his defensive game is average.

1 point in 7 playoff games..that is not very Orr like
- senstroll

So funny and constantly pathetic. The kid did a great job in shutting down Gaborik and taking him completely out of the series. Several times when Gaborik broke free to use his speed the kid caught him from behind.

The problem with jealousy is the overall affect the bitterness has in the way we see things. You realize that it says more about you than anything else when you cannot congratulate the Sens or the kid for;

Their great regular season run.

Their highly entertaining series against the Rangers.

Their building of a solid prospect pool.

And, of course, the nomination of the kid for the Norris trophy.

Hockey is something to be celebrated. It is joyful to watch. Do you not ever want to move beyond this constant state of bitterness? If you are always against, if you take disproportionate joy in seeing others fail you will become trapped within your own cycle of never ending hockey despair.

So funny and constantly pathetic. The kid did a great job in shutting down Gaborik and taking him completely out of the series. Several times when Gaborik broke free to use his speed the kid caught him from behind.

The problem with jealousy is the overall affect the bitterness has in the way we see things. You realize that it says more about you than anything else when you cannot congratulate the Sens or the kid for;

Their great regular season run.

Their highly entertaining series against the Rangers.

Their building of a solid prospect pool.

And, of course, the nomination of the kid for the Norris trophy.

Hockey is something to be celebrated. It is joyful to watch. Do you not ever want to move beyond this constant state of bitterness? If you are always against, if you take disproportionate joy in seeing others fail you will become trapped within your own cycle of never ending hockey despair.
- spatso

Its a shot at you not the "Kid'
I am not bitter or jealous.. the only thing I am is annoyed ... by you

Its a shot at you not the "Kid'
I am not bitter or jealous.. the only thing I am is annoyed ... by you
- senstroll

If you felt better about yourself you would not give me the power to annoy you. The problem with always being so negative is you start to believe that your disappointment is always caused by someone or something else.

I think the Leafs, for example, may be finally starting to get it right. They will not deal the #5 pick (not even for Nash) and I think that they will try to expand their draft day options. But, have you allowed yourself the moment to appreciate that an important corner may have been turned.

If you felt better about yourself you would not give me the power to annoy you. The problem with always being so negative is you start to believe that your disappointment is always caused by someone or something else.

I think the Leafs, for example, may be finally starting to get it right. They will not deal the #5 pick (not even for Nash) and I think that they will try to expand their draft day options. But, have you allowed yourself the moment to appreciate that an important corner may have been turned.
- spatso

I appreciate you trying to psychoanalyze...but you are way off...

with comments like this ...

Sorry, but I am tired of knocking Burke. I think I would like to talk about Karllson just to watch some of you squirm.
- spatso

and crowning Karlsson the next Orr prematurely.... you bring it on yourself.

My issue with you stems from your constant negativity towards the leafs, backhanded compliments and constant blustering about the sens...all the while claiming to be a Leafs fan.

Its pretty simple really.

Is the Norris decided solely on who is the best defensive player? Or do they consider play at both ends of the ice?
- Doppleganger

Obviously both ends of the ice. Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in their own end?

I appreciate you trying to psychoanalyze...but you are way off...

with comments like this ...



and crowning Karlsson the next Orr prematurely.... you bring it on yourself.

My issue with you stems from your constant negativity towards the leafs, backhanded compliments and constant blustering about the sens...all the while claiming to be a Leafs fan.

Its pretty simple really.
- senstroll

You know that is a fiction you need to believe because you cannot handle the truth. I have been a positive Leaf supporter for a long time. You are upset with me simply because I have been right on the fraud MLSE attempted to pull off over the last few years. My positive affirmations of the Sens have been measured proportionate to the ludicrous statements of some Leaf fans who want to be highly critical of the Sens for no other purpose than to divert attention away from the failings of MLSE. My favorite, of course, is the repeated assertion that Karlsson would not be a top four Dman if he played the Leafs.

You know that is a fiction you need to believe because you cannot handle the truth. I have been a positive Leaf supporter for a long time. You are upset with me simply because I have been right on the fraud MLSE attempted to pull off over the last few years. My positive affirmations of the Sens have been measured proportionate to the ludicrous statements of some Leaf fans who want to be highly critical of the Sens for no other purpose than to divert attention away from the failings of MLSE. My favorite, of course, is the repeated assertion that Karlsson would not be a top four Dman if he played the Leafs.
- spatso

Obviously both ends of the ice. Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in their own end?
- Morris

You have got to impressed by the fact that the kid essentially shut down Gaborik for the entire series. Gaborik had one goal and was a non factor in 6 out of the seven games.

Which one is the best defensive player?
- Morris

Is being the best defensive player the ONLY criteria taken into consideration by the PHWA, in determining the Norris winner?

1 point in 7 playoff games..that is not very Orr like
- senstroll

one more point than ANY leaf player has since before the lockout, in the playoffs.

Is being the best defensive player the ONLY criteria taken into consideration by the PHWA, in determining the Norris winner?
- Doppleganger

The fact is the kid has superb defensive numbers. Please read the outstanding profile on the subject done by stljam

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...d=97167&page=last#8928746

Obviously both ends of the ice. Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in their own end?
- Morris

Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in the offensive zone ?

Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in the offensive zone ?
- Doppleganger

Statistically the kid measures up really well against the other defensive players, even if you take out the offensive numbers. You have a bunch of whiners who want the kid to be something less than he is. The fact is the kid is an outstanding defensive player. He led the league in takeaways, probably the most important measure for a Dman. Your arguing with people who do not want the kid to win. They despise the kid, they hate what he represents and it is painful for them to acknowledge his accomplishment. So they bury their heads in the sand, they refuse to look at the data and they insist a fallacy must be true because they so desperately want to believe it.

Which one of the candidates is best and which one is the worst in the offensive zone ?
- Doppleganger

Karlsson's the best, Chara's the worst.

Now can you answer my question?

Statistically the kid measures up really well against the other defensive players, even if you take out the offensive numbers. You have a bunch of whiners who want the kid to be something less than he is. The fact is the kid is an outstanding defensive player. He led the league in takeaways, probably the most important measure for a Dman. Your arguing with people who do not want the kid to win. They despise the kid, they hate what he represents and it is painful for them to acknowledge his accomplishment. So they bury their heads in the sand, they refuse to look at the data and they insist a fallacy must be true because they so desperately want to believe it.
- spatso

That's inaccurate. I was just asking a question. You read far too much into it. As you say, Karlsson by some accounts hangs with the big boys when it comes to defensive zone play. Other commenters think he's lacking in his own end. Isn't it then a legitimate question to ask who is the best and who is the worst player in their own end?

Karlsson's the best, Chara's the worst.

Now can you answer my question?
- Morris

That's inaccurate. I was just asking a question. You read far too much into it. As you say, Karlsson by some accounts hangs with the big boys when it comes to defensive zone play. Other commenters think he's lacking in his own end. Isn't it then a legitimate question to ask who is the best and who is the worst player in their own end?
- Morris

Karlsson plays a unorthodox, high risk defensive style because he is too small to play the body and box players out. It works alot of the time as I think he has one of the best sticks in the game, but it makes his misses very glaring.

I'm just happy that he got nominated. I want him to win, but i think chara or weber get it. part of it is based on reputation imo, but those 2 had stellar seasons themselves and play a better all round game. Karlsson isn't on the PK or on in the last minute of a 1 goal game like those 2 are.

Karlsson's the best, Chara's the worst.

Now can you answer my question?
- Morris

Not having watched Chara and Weber play much this past season, what should I base my opinion on?

I guess I could use plus/minus, turnovers, giveaways, hits, blocked shots, PK TOI but at the end of the day it would be an interpretation based on stats alone, and this may not be fair.

So it would be Chara based on plus minus I guess.

That's inaccurate. I was just asking a question. You read far too much into it. As you say, Karlsson by some accounts hangs with the big boys when it comes to defensive zone play. Other commenters think he's lacking in his own end. Isn't it then a legitimate question to ask who is the best and who is the worst player in their own end?
- Morris

What is inaccurate, the statistics or the commentators who argue something other than the statistics?

What is inaccurate, the statistics or the commentators who argue something other than the statistics?
- spatso

Commentators who are biased.

What is inaccurate, the statistics or the commentators who argue something other than the statistics?
- spatso

if you base it on statistics, filip kuba is one of the best defensive defenseman in the league.

Karlsson has his flaws in the defensive zone and there is nothing wrong with that. he's only 21.

Karlsson plays a unorthodox, high risk defensive style because he is too small to play the body and box players out. It works alot of the time as I think he has one of the best sticks in the game, but it makes his misses very glaring.

I'm just happy that he got nominated. I want him to win, but i think chara or weber get it. part of it is based on reputation imo, but those 2 had stellar seasons themselves and play a better all round game. Karlsson isn't on the PK or on in the last minute of a 1 goal game like those 2 are.
- sens rock

When I started the Karlsson/Norris threads in this forum, I was merely suggesting he should be considered for nomination. I did not think he would be nominated but I thought he should be in the conversation. I was astounded by the bitter blow back that came from some quarters, primarily Leaf fans. They are angry and upset now that he has actually been nominated and they can't let it go. All they need to do is say the kid had a remarkable year and then let it go and move on. But, they can't let it go. They can't look at the kids defensive numbers. They want to believe what they want to believe.