No not really ,is ottawa current blueline any where close to being as good as say boston,stlouis or nashville.EK is virturally on a island compared to the other candidates whom all have better support
- top shelf 15

Sorry, I see the problem.

You believe that if Anderson and the rest of the OTT defence (aside from EK) were playing better, that OTT would appear better on the stats sheet.

I believe that if EK was playing better defensively, as the ice-time leader among his team on defence, OTT's numbers would increase closer to those of the teams with the more defensively stable d-men.

Unfortunately, both of these are opinion and can't really be proven. I guess we may have to agree to disagree.

Sorry, I see the problem.

You believe that if Anderson and the rest of the OTT defence (aside from EK) were playing better, that OTT would appear better on the stats sheet.

I believe that if EK was playing better defensively, as the ice-time leader among his team on defence, OTT's numbers would increase closer to those of the teams with the more defensively stable d-men.

Unfortunately, both of these are opinion and can't really be proven. I guess we may have to agree to disagree.
- mfreedman

Come on ,after EK do we have anywhere close to the depth that boston,stlouis or nashville has .Look at the players gonchar is 36 and on his last legs ditto kuba

Come on ,after EK do we have anywhere close to the depth that boston,stlouis or nashville has .Look at the players gonchar is 36 and on his last legs ditto kuba
- top shelf 15

What does gonchar's play have to do with EK?

Why are you blaming the defensive players that do not play with EK on a regular basis for EK's play?

You are confusing me.

What does gonchar's play have to do with EK?

Why are you blaming the defensive players that do not play with EK on a regular basis for EK's play?

You are confusing me.
- mfreedman

Pretty simple ,does boston ,stlouis and nashville.Have deeper and more tallented defensive corps than ottawa?

Pretty simple ,does boston ,stlouis and nashville.Have deeper and more tallented defensive corps than ottawa?
- top shelf 15

Yes.

Now answer mine: Does the play of the 2nd and 3rd line defensive pairings greatly affect the play of the 1st pairing?

Yes.

Now answer mine: Does the play of the 2nd and 3rd line defensive pairings greatly affect the play of the 1st pairing?
- mfreedman

Yes of course it does,do you not think some of the pressure EK has to spark our mediocre attack would be lessened ,with better support around him therefore he would be able to better focus on the defensive side of his position

Yes of course it does,do you not think some of the pressure EK has to spark our mediocre attack would be lessened ,with better support around him therefore he would be able to better focus on the defensive side of his position
- top shelf 15

It also means he gets all the prime opportunities.

Yes of course it does,do you not think some of the pressure EK has to spark our mediocre attack would be lessened ,with better support around him therefore he would be able to better focus on the defensive side of his position
- top shelf 15

#1. If he had better pairings around him, he would receive less even strength time
#2. If he had other capable offensive d-men on his team, he would receive less PP time
#3. If he had other capable puck moving d-men on his team, they would spread out the play of the Spezza line to play not only with EK, but with the other offensively contributing defensive pairing.

My point is that it works both ways. You say he is at a disadvantage because he has no other capable pairings around him, I say it benefits as well as hinders him.

It also means he gets all the prime opportunities.
- prock

Exactly.

It also means he gets all the prime opportunities.
- prock

Yes it does your are correct ,but it also puts a ton of pressure to produce as well .The main focal point is EK or did you think it was gonchar or kuba .Teams stack the deck against him yet he still beats them

#1. If he had better pairings around him, he would receive less even strength time
#2. If he had other capable offensive d-men on his team, he would receive less PP time
#3. If he had other capable puck moving d-men on his team, they would spread out the play of the Spezza line to play not only with EK, but with the other offensively contributing defensive pairing.

My point is that it works both ways. You say he is at a disadvantage because he has no other capable pairings around him, I say it benefits as well as hinders him.
- mfreedman

His defense would improve ,and teams would no longer just be able to stack the deck against him ,therefore this should cut down on his giveaways would you not agree

Yes it does your are correct ,but it also puts a ton of pressure to produce as well .The main focal point is EK or did you think it was gonchar or kuba .Teams stack the deck against him yet he still beats them
- top shelf 15

Agreed.

No one is denying he is a good player. The whole point is that he hasn't shown to be in the upper echelon of defensive d-men, which is why he probably won't win the Norris.

Would a better partner help with this? Absolutely. A mentor would do wonders for the kid. However, that still does not change the fact that at the moment, he is not at that point. Is this not correct?

His defense would improve ,and teams would no longer just be able to stack the deck against him ,therefore this should cut down on his giveaways would you not agree
- top shelf 15

Yes. It would also cut down on his opportunites for takeaways, as he would be playing against a worse set of players who wouldn't control the puck nearly as much and would instead spend most of the time defending the OTT attack. Would you not agree?

Agreed.

No one is denying he is a good player. The whole point is that he hasn't shown to be in the upper echelon of defensive d-men, which is why he probably won't win the Norris.

Would a better partner help with this? Absolutely. A mentor would do wonders for the kid. However, that still does not change the fact that at the moment, he is not at that point. Is this not correct?
- mfreedman

He does play defense and he is the focal point of ottawa,s entire attack.He does not benifite from having others to lessen the pressure on him to produce.The turnovers and giveaways are a big part of this very fact,which is by in large most peoples arguement on him not winning the norris

His defense would improve ,and teams would no longer just be able to stack the deck against him ,therefore this should cut down on his giveaways would you not agree
- top shelf 15

Am I reading this correct, or you think that other teams will try to put their best forwards out while the other team's best Dman is out? Are you serious?

He does play defense and he is the focal point of ottawa,s entire attack.He does not benifite from having others to lessen the pressure on him to produce.The turnovers and giveaways are a big part of this very fact,which is by in large most peoples arguement on him not winning the norris
- top shelf 15

Well yeah, that, and the fact that other teams score at league leading paces while he is on the ice.

Yes. It would also cut down on his opportunites for takeaways, as he would be playing against a worse set of players who wouldn't control the puck nearly as much and would instead spend most of the time defending the OTT attack. Would you not agree?
- mfreedman

His entire defensive game like others of his mold are based on speed skill and positional play.He will never lead the league in blocked shots, hits or PK time.His offensive prowess and his time posessing the puck is the biggest part of his defensive game

Agreed.

No one is denying he is a good player. The whole point is that he hasn't shown to be in the upper echelon of defensive d-men, which is why he probably won't win the Norris.

Would a better partner help with this? Absolutely. A mentor would do wonders for the kid. However, that still does not change the fact that at the moment, he is not at that point. Is this not correct?
- mfreedman

There is only ONE defensman in the NHL, who has a higher plus/minus than Karlsson's partner.

So do you think Boston will trade Chara for Kuba?

He sits beside Gonchar in the locker-room, who IS his mentor, and has been for the last two seasons.

Can you name a better Veteran Puck moving offensive D man, who is available?

Despite what everyone, who does NOT watch him play each and every game, wants to believe, Erik has improved his defensive responsibilities dramatically from last season.

Last year he was a minus 30, and today he is a plus 18. That's an improvement of 48 points in that rating, and can't be overlooked.


Now here come all the "plus/minus means nothing" posts.

Well yeah, that, and the fact that other teams score at league leading paces while he is on the ice.
- prock

Yes this is correct ,but why is it all EK,s fault where was his defensive partener to bail him out ??Suter would have broken up far more defensive breakdowns than kuba would have wouldnt he how about Seidenberg,or maybe Barret Jackman

There is only ONE defensman in the NHL, who has a higher plus/minus than Karlsson's partner.

So do you think Boston will trade Chara for Kuba?

He sits beside Gonchar in the locker-room, who IS his mentor, and has been for the last two seasons.

Can you name a better Veteran Puck moving offensive D man, who is available?

Despite what everyone, who does NOT watch him play each and every game, wants to believe, Erik has improved his defensive responsibilities dramatically from last season.

Last year he was a minus 30, and today he is a plus 18. That's an improvement of 48 points in that rating, and can't be overlooked.


Now here come all the "plus/minus means nothing" posts.
- Doppleganger

They would have to add ,Maybe nashville will be more willing to give us Suter

There is only ONE defensman in the NHL, who has a higher plus/minus than Karlsson's partner.

- Doppleganger

Yes, we realize he's been paired off with someone to help cover for his defensive deficiencies. Why are you pointing it out?

There is only ONE defensman in the NHL, who has a higher plus/minus than Karlsson's partner.

- Doppleganger

Yes, we realize he's been paired off with someone to help cover for his defensive deficiencies. Why are you pointing it out?

Yes this is correct ,but why is it all EK,s fault where was his defensive partener to bail him out ??Suter would have broken up far more defensive breakdowns than kuba would have wouldnt he how about Seidenberg,or maybe Barret Jackman
- top shelf 15

On the bright side, you're finally recognizing he needs a partner to consistently bail him out.

Out of curiousity, have you noticed that Nashville gets scored on more while Suter is on the ice than while Weber is (specifically, even strength), yet, there isn't another Dman on Ottawa that gets scored on more often than karlsson. Even strength, it's actually a decent margin. Does that make you wonder just how much Suter is actually covering up for Weber, and just how much everyone else is covering for Karlsson?

Can you understand the difference? Take Chara and Boston. Boston scores far more with Chara on the ice, both ES and PP, than with any other Dman they have. They don't get scored on more though. With Ottawa, undoubtedly, they score more with him on the ice. But they also get scored on, FAR more. Do you understand that?

Random question...is top shelf 15 over the age of 20?

On the bright side, you're finally recognizing he needs a partner to consistently bail him out.

- prock

How many times has Karlsson "needed to be bailed out"?

there isn't another Dman on Ottawa that gets scored on more often than karlsson.
- prock

Where is the link to this stat?

Does that make you wonder just how much Suter is actually covering up for Weber, and just how much everyone else is covering for Karlsson?

- prock

Without you ever watching Karlsson play this season, all you can do is wonder. We who watch him play don't see what you are "wondering" about.

With Ottawa, undoubtedly, they score more with him on the ice. But they also get scored on, FAR more.
- prock

Far more than who? Where are the links to your stats to back up your "wondering"

Instead of trolling, back up your opinions with links to the stats sites that you rely on.