That was my last point on the issue.

Our friend could not seem to see that it would have been more accurate to say almost 19 years. But he forced the issue, trying to prove that 20 is closer to 19, than 19 itself is.
- Doppleganger

i would've said almost 20 years

He's good enough to score on his own net!

He's good enough to score on his own net!
- daeth

That was all on Bishop, with the help of a Connolly deflection...

Bobby Orr a big Karlsson booster

By Bruce Garrioch ,Ottawa Sun

When the greatest NHL defenceman of all-time watches Erik Karlsson, he is reminded of the best of the best ... guys like Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Denis Potvin, Paul Coffey and Ray Bourque.

Former Boston Bruins great Bobby Orr, No. 4, told the Ottawa Sun in an exclusive interview the sky is the limit for the 21-year-old Karlsson.

“I watch the Senators often,” said Orr, who turns 64 Tuesday and is president of the Orr Hockey Group that represents Jason Spezza. “I see a lot (in Karlsson). (Just) the way this kid skates. There’s nothing like a powerful skater. You can go back over the years: Coffey, (Bourque), Potvin ... these guys could motor. They had great speed.

“This kid has wonderful speed. Great, great hockey sense. He’s not big at all. Two games ago I looked at him and I thought, ‘Holy crap, he looks like a teenager,’ or maybe it’s me getting old. He’s not a huge kid, but he’s very intelligent and very smart on the ice.

“He positions himself well. He’s unbelievable and uncanny with the stick. He pokechecks, he’s got great reach and even just shooting from the point, he gets the puck on the net. “All the good teams that have won, they’ve all had that guy on the point: (Nicklas) Lidstrom, (Zdeno) Chara. In the old days with Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, Potvin and Coffey. He’s that kind of player. He is that important to the Senators.”

Orr doesn’t believe Karlsson would be having this kind of success if Ottawa coach Paul MacLean didn’t take off the leash and let the youngster play to his strengths.

“I want to say one thing about the coach and whoever is allowing him to do this and I’ve been saying this forever: You get a guy who can skate like that, let him go, for gawd’s sakes,” said Orr.

“He’ll get caught. I got caught. The players understand how he plays. They accept it. He’s fast enough to get back a lot of times. You have kids coming along where (the coach says) shoot the puck up the glass and shoot it in.

“The coach is letting (Karlsson) do it and since they’ve allowed him to do it, this kid has been unbelievable. But, let him do it. That’s how he is most effective. Is he gonna make mistakes? Yup. Is he gonna get caught? Yup. But the pluses are going to outweigh the minuses.

“There are probably some coaches who wouldn’t let him go like he does. They let me go. They let Coffey go. I couldn’t imagine playing any other way and I can’t imagine young Erik playing any other way, either.”

The biggest difference Orr has seen in Karlsson’s game is maturity.

“His whole game has changed. He’s probably more conscious of his own end than he’s ever been,” said Orr. “He gets to the puck, he gets the puck on his stick and there are no worries. That is the kind of player he is.

“The best defence is to get the puck and he gets it. He moves it as well as anybody. The forwards on Ottawa have to say, ‘Whew, that’s great, we know we’re going to get it. We know it’s coming.’ He was aware of his minus last year and he really made great strides in the defensive zone.”

Orr is a huge fan of youthful innocence and exuberance. He views Karlsson as somebody who is only going to get better.

“He’s 21 ... hello! He’s going to get bigger, stronger, faster and smarter, which will make him a better player,” said Orr. “He’s loving the game right now. You just watch him and you know he’s loving the game.

“You just let him play. It’s like my friend (Spezza), he has a love and passion for this game. We have to keep that in our players. Making (Karlsson) sit back isn’t going to make him happy. When I was playing, if they told me I couldn’t skate over centre ice, I wouldn’t have been happy. I didn’t want to play like that. Can you imagine Coffey being told not to cross centre ice or shoot it off the glass? Are you kidding me?”

/thread

Bobby Orr a big Karlsson booster

By Bruce Garrioch ,Ottawa Sun

When the greatest NHL defenceman of all-time watches Erik Karlsson, he is reminded of the best of the best ... guys like Larry Robinson, Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Denis Potvin, Paul Coffey and Ray Bourque.

Former Boston Bruins great Bobby Orr, No. 4, told the Ottawa Sun in an exclusive interview the sky is the limit for the 21-year-old Karlsson.

“I watch the Senators often,” said Orr, who turns 64 Tuesday and is president of the Orr Hockey Group that represents Jason Spezza. “I see a lot (in Karlsson). (Just) the way this kid skates. There’s nothing like a powerful skater. You can go back over the years: Coffey, (Bourque), Potvin ... these guys could motor. They had great speed.

“This kid has wonderful speed. Great, great hockey sense. He’s not big at all. Two games ago I looked at him and I thought, ‘Holy crap, he looks like a teenager,’ or maybe it’s me getting old. He’s not a huge kid, but he’s very intelligent and very smart on the ice.

“He positions himself well. He’s unbelievable and uncanny with the stick. He pokechecks, he’s got great reach and even just shooting from the point, he gets the puck on the net. “All the good teams that have won, they’ve all had that guy on the point: (Nicklas) Lidstrom, (Zdeno) Chara. In the old days with Robinson, Savard, Lapointe, Potvin and Coffey. He’s that kind of player. He is that important to the Senators.”

Orr doesn’t believe Karlsson would be having this kind of success if Ottawa coach Paul MacLean didn’t take off the leash and let the youngster play to his strengths.

“I want to say one thing about the coach and whoever is allowing him to do this and I’ve been saying this forever: You get a guy who can skate like that, let him go, for gawd’s sakes,” said Orr.

“He’ll get caught. I got caught. The players understand how he plays. They accept it. He’s fast enough to get back a lot of times. You have kids coming along where (the coach says) shoot the puck up the glass and shoot it in.

“The coach is letting (Karlsson) do it and since they’ve allowed him to do it, this kid has been unbelievable. But, let him do it. That’s how he is most effective. Is he gonna make mistakes? Yup. Is he gonna get caught? Yup. But the pluses are going to outweigh the minuses.

“There are probably some coaches who wouldn’t let him go like he does. They let me go. They let Coffey go. I couldn’t imagine playing any other way and I can’t imagine young Erik playing any other way, either.”

The biggest difference Orr has seen in Karlsson’s game is maturity.

“His whole game has changed. He’s probably more conscious of his own end than he’s ever been,” said Orr. “He gets to the puck, he gets the puck on his stick and there are no worries. That is the kind of player he is.

“The best defence is to get the puck and he gets it. He moves it as well as anybody. The forwards on Ottawa have to say, ‘Whew, that’s great, we know we’re going to get it. We know it’s coming.’ He was aware of his minus last year and he really made great strides in the defensive zone.”

Orr is a huge fan of youthful innocence and exuberance. He views Karlsson as somebody who is only going to get better.

“He’s 21 ... hello! He’s going to get bigger, stronger, faster and smarter, which will make him a better player,” said Orr. “He’s loving the game right now. You just watch him and you know he’s loving the game.

“You just let him play. It’s like my friend (Spezza), he has a love and passion for this game. We have to keep that in our players. Making (Karlsson) sit back isn’t going to make him happy. When I was playing, if they told me I couldn’t skate over centre ice, I wouldn’t have been happy. I didn’t want to play like that. Can you imagine Coffey being told not to cross centre ice or shoot it off the glass? Are you kidding me?”
- Doppleganger

The kid had a monster night last night against Winnipeg. He had three assists and was plus 5 in a game that ended in a 6-4 score. For the first time you are beginning to hear national commentators say it would be an injustice if he does not win the Norris. At the beginning of this thread the issue was if the kid could be nominated. Now the debate assumes he will be nominated and we wonder if he wins the whole thing.

76 GP, 19 goals, 57 assists, 76 points, +19.

27 points up on Campbell (next-highest d-man scorer), 30 points up on Weber. The only defencemen ever to win the D-man scoring title by 20 or more points are Orr, Coffey, and Potvin.

He's also now matched Mike Green's career high, which Green achieved on a team that scored 82 more goals than the Sens currently have.

Jes sayin

Just keep in mind that that overwhelming majority of the members of the PHWA, who actually vote for the Norris nominees, are based in the USA, and Karlsson gets little exposure there, especially in the Western Conference. The tendency is to vote "on reputation" and players that have been around longer than Karlsson will get votes this way.

He's also now matched Mike Green's career high, which Green achieved on a team that scored 82 more goals than the Sens currently have.

- Asquaredx2

The similarities are incredible.

76 GP, 19 goals, 57 assists, 76 points, +19.

27 points up on Campbell (next-highest d-man scorer), 30 points up on Weber. The only defencemen ever to win the D-man scoring title by 20 or more points are Orr, Coffey, and Potvin.

He's also now matched Mike Green's career high, which Green achieved on a team that scored 82 more goals than the Sens currently have.

Jes sayin
- Asquaredx2

That is pretty impressive for a 21 year old ,no matter what era .And were the hell have u been

The similarities are incredible.
- prock

A bit of similarity in their offensive game. But, you may have noticed Karlsson is now getting a lot of love for his defensive play. Last night he was plus 5 in a 6-4 game. Amazing!

A bit of similarity in their offensive game. But, you may have noticed Karlsson is now getting a lot of love for his defensive play. Last night he was plus 5 in a 6-4 game. Amazing!
- spatso

I was surprised to see him on the ice last night in the last few minutes of the game, with the Jets goal tender pulled. Seems the coaching staff is seeing a little more defensive responsibility in him now. But he is still last among his teams dmen in SH TOI/G

A bit of similarity in their offensive game. But, you may have noticed Karlsson is now getting a lot of love for his defensive play. Last night he was plus 5 in a 6-4 game. Amazing!
- spatso

Mike Green finished the season +39 when he scored 76 points. Similarities in all of his game!!!!!

The similarities are incredible.
- prock

21-year-old Denis Potvin: 79 games, 21 goals, 55 assists, 76 points.

21-year-old Erik Karlsson: 76 games, 19 goals, 57 assists, 76 points.

21-year-old Denis Potvin: 79 games, 21 goals, 55 assists, 76 points.

21-year-old Erik Karlsson: 76 games, 19 goals, 57 assists, 76 points.


- Asquaredx2

22 year old Mike Green: 68 games, 31 goals, 42 assists, 73 points.

22 year old Mike Green: 68 games, 31 goals, 42 assists, 73 points.


- prock

You should avoid biting on the bait. You know most of the people are openly chuming the water just to try and sink the hook deeper.

You should avoid biting on the bait. You know most of the people are openly chuming the water just to try and sink the hook deeper.
- spatso

go for it. The comparison is true. Hell, comparing him to Denis Potvin is the ridiculous comparison.

go for it. The comparison is true. Hell, comparing him to Denis Potvin is the ridiculous comparison.
- prock

The Coffey comparisons make more sense.

The Coffey comparisons make more sense.
- spatso

LOL.

The Coffey comparisons make more sense.
- spatso

Here's the problem Spats.

You are trying to compare a kid with one good season (which still hasn't completed yet) to a legend in the game.

You tell Leaf fans that we need to temper our expectations, yet you are praising the kid for the Hart Trophy and Stanley Cup that he HASN'T won.

You talk more and more of how he is the next great in the game, and I understand that as a die-hard Ottawa fan, you are excited to see how he progresses.

However, you have to understand that as someone who is not a die-hard Ottawa fan, we need a little more than a season to believe all the hype. Prock is right in the sense that Green accomplished the same thing at an early age, and now look at him. He has struggled to maintain numbers close to what he achieved, and while still a good asset, is nowhere near what he was during that season.

You really need to relax a little with your comparisons, because comparing the kid to Coffey or Orr at this point is complete homerism.

Here's the problem Spats.

You are trying to compare a kid with one good season (which still hasn't completed yet) to a legend in the game.

You tell Leaf fans that we need to temper our expectations, yet you are praising the kid for the Hart Trophy and Stanley Cup that he HASN'T won.

You talk more and more of how he is the next great in the game, and I understand that as a die-hard Ottawa fan, you are excited to see how he progresses.

However, you have to understand that as someone who is not a die-hard Ottawa fan, we need a little more than a season to believe all the hype. Prock is right in the sense that Green accomplished the same thing at an early age, and now look at him. He has struggled to maintain numbers close to what he achieved, and while still a good asset, is nowhere near what he was during that season.

You really need to relax a little with your comparisons, because comparing the kid to Coffey or Orr at this point is complete homerism.
- mfreedman

Actually, you are turning the matter upside down and trying to invoke a contextual understanding by reading a history against a subjective comparison.

Numbers don't lie, they are reflective of a reality. You can interprete the meaning of a statistic but you cannot deny the data. So when people say that the kid has produced a statistical result that has only been achieved by the legends at the same age it is a factual statement.

You can say, for example, the fact the kid has equal statistics to the legends does not mean he will duplicate their careers but you cannot deny the comparison.

To suggest that it is a hockey heresy to compare the kid to the legends is equally silly. We see this happen every generation.

The skinny kids Orr, Gretzky, Tiger Woods were all ridiculed when first comparisons were made. In the case of Woods there was outrage anytime a commentator made the comparison with Nicklaus. Orr was ridiculed as not being able to play defense. Gretzky was called a net hanger. But, and, here is the critical point, it is the legends who are the first to recognize a pier, a special talent. Nicklaus stepped up very early in Tiger's career to say that he was a prodigious talent. So, find out what Orr, Potvin and Coffey are saying about the kid. They all seem to think he is a very special talent. I believe (not certain) that they have all voiced the opinion that the kid is a worthy Norris candidate.

This is a good article where Bobby Orr commits the sin of often comparing the kid to the legends, especially Coffey. Perhaps Prock should take the time to write Mr Orr and tell him how foolish he is in hyping the kid.

http://www.ottawasun.com/...rr-a-big-karlsson-booster

After he gets done with Orr he can try and straighten out Coffey as well. I suspect Potvin is a lost cause since he is the color commentator for the Senators and probably too biased in favor of the kid.

http://www.edmontonjourna...+hopes/6247548/story.html

Here's the problem Spats.

You are trying to compare a kid with one good season (which still hasn't completed yet) to a legend in the game.

You tell Leaf fans that we need to temper our expectations, yet you are praising the kid for the Hart Trophy and Stanley Cup that he HASN'T won.

You talk more and more of how he is the next great in the game, and I understand that as a die-hard Ottawa fan, you are excited to see how he progresses.

However, you have to understand that as someone who is not a die-hard Ottawa fan, we need a little more than a season to believe all the hype. Prock is right in the sense that Green accomplished the same thing at an early age, and now look at him. He has struggled to maintain numbers close to what he achieved, and while still a good asset, is nowhere near what he was during that season.

You really need to relax a little with your comparisons, because comparing the kid to Coffey or Orr at this point is complete homerism.
- mfreedman

I am not saying you should compare him to the greats but a few things on the comparison to Green. Green didn't have as big of a point gap as EK and Green had the luxury of playing on an offensive powerhouse in the caps. What would EK numbers be if he had the 2008 and 2009 caps in front of him?

I am not saying you should compare him to the greats but a few things on the comparison to Green. Green didn't have as big of a point gap as EK and Green had the luxury of playing on an offensive powerhouse in the caps. What would EK numbers be if he had the 2008 and 2009 caps in front of him?
- jordan456789

Nobody really thinks the Green to Karlsson comparisons are valid. The notion is pushed by frustrated Leaf fans who are bitterly disappointed by the Buds and enraged by the great season the Senators are having. Karlsson is a symptom of everything that has gone right for the Senators. He is also a negative symbol of everything that has gone wrong for the Leafs.

This is a good article where Bobby Orr commits the sin of often comparing the kid to the legends, especially Coffey. Perhaps Prock should take the time to write Mr Orr and tell him how foolish he is in hyping the kid.

http://www.ottawasun.com/...rr-a-big-karlsson-booster

After he gets done with Orr he can try and straighten out Coffey as well. I suspect Potvin is a lost cause since he is the color commentator for the Senators and probably too biased in favor of the kid.

http://www.edmontonjourna...+hopes/6247548/story.html
- spatso

You're wasting your time and sever space trying to change a "hate everything remotely connected with Ottawa" troll.

He will never be objective when it comes to Karlsson, or any Ottawa player.

Stop giving medicine to a dead man.