... I was not talking from the Leafs perspective.

From the ANA and CGY perspective, those trades were worse than Kessel IMO.
- GoneFullRetard

Ah that makes more sense.

Here is my issue with Carter...

Columbus gave up sean couturier, jakub voracek and Nick Cousins as it turns out. If anyone is to aquire him I assume they have to give up a Similar package..say from the leafs

Kadri, Kuli and a 1st...and that might not be enough

His value may have dropped in our eyes, but what about columbus, they will look silly if they take anything less than what they gave up
- senstroll

Absolutely...but at this point; they have a player who doesn't want to be there...when he's playing he doesn't play hard because again; he doesn't want to be there.

They can be stubborn and hold out for the equivalent to what they traded away and continue to hurt the team, or they can make the best hockey deal for their team and for moving the franchise forward.

It'll have to be somewhere between your point and mine I'd imagine.

I still think Grabo should be onthe # 1 line .

Lupul - Grabo - Kessel
Mac - Bozak - Lombo
Kuli - Conn - Armstrong
Crabb - Steckel - Brown

thoughts???
- TrueLeaf07

No, him and Kessel aren't a good match. If you're going to have those lines at least switch Bozak and Grabo.

Plus, having Grabovski on a different line makes it harder to defend because you have 2 matchups instead of 1. If you have your 3 best players all on 1 line, it's easy to shut them down then shut down the rest of the team.

Yeah no kidding. Only 1 trade that's "bad" and really it's not a terrible trade, just one that looks like Boston won it, not by a huge margin yet
- Domaju

It's a bad thing for other teams when Leafs fans faith in their team is rewarded with actual talent. We're ignorant fans because the majority chooses to support our team. When that's not even really the case at all...

Here is my issue with Carter...

Columbus gave up sean couturier, jakub voracek and Nick Cousins as it turns out. If anyone is to aquire him I assume they have to give up a Similar package..say from the leafs

Kadri, Kuli and a 1st...and that might not be enough

His value may have dropped in our eyes, but what about columbus, they will look silly if they take anything less than what they gave up
- senstroll

I would not give up more than Kadri, Schenn, MacArthur and maybe a prospect for anybody right now. We also need to keep our future 1st round picks.

Also, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Why blow that up to get a front line player when a guy like Parise might be available during the offseason and we don't have to give up anybody.

We are close to something good starting in Toronto, I would hate to see a setback because we dropped 3 players for 1 player who might not pan out.

I would not give up more than Kadri, Schenn, MacArthur and maybe a prospect for anybody right now. We also need to keep our future 1st round picks.

Also, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Why blow that up to get a front line player when a guy like Parise might be available during the offseason and we don't have to give up anybody.

We are close to something good starting in Toronto, I would hate to see a setback because we dropped 3 players for 1 player who might not pan out.
- leafs93

Clearly, again, you don't have your "I Hate Toronto" goggles on...cause if you did you'd see that Parise doesn't want to go to Toronto and that's not based off him saying it or anything, it's just based off the fact anybody who hates Toronto has to say that in order to express how big of a fan of their own team they are.

I have no idea what that poster was referring to when he said Burke made 4 bad deals. He is clueless
- faceto27

Kessel deal.

Pavel Kubina, Tim Stapleton for Garnet Exelby, Colin Stuart

Stempniak to Phoenix for Matt Jones, 2010 4th Rd (Grubauer), 2010 7th Rd (Jones).

Alexi Ponikarovsky for Martin Skoula, Luca Caputi

Other than the Kessel deal, nothing earth shattering.

But there you go - 4 bad deals.

I would not give up more than Kadri, Schenn, MacArthur and maybe a prospect for anybody right now. We also need to keep our future 1st round picks.

Also, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Why blow that up to get a front line player when a guy like Parise might be available during the offseason and we don't have to give up anybody.

We are close to something good starting in Toronto, I would hate to see a setback because we dropped 3 players for 1 player who might not pan out.
- leafs93

parise is a winger.
not a power forward or a 1st line centreman.

I would not give up more than Kadri, Schenn, MacArthur and maybe a prospect for anybody right now. We also need to keep our future 1st round picks.

Also, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Why blow that up to get a front line player when a guy like Parise might be available during the offseason and we don't have to give up anybody.

We are close to something good starting in Toronto, I would hate to see a setback because we dropped 3 players for 1 player who might not pan out.
- leafs93

Toronto is due one of their draft picks surprising us for once. Maybe Biggs? (Praying) We haven't had that in a while (We could argue Gardiner). We rally need to add size, cuz, as GoneFull said. You can see the grind wearing on Kess and Loops.

Kessel deal.

Pavel Kubina, Tim Stapleton for Garnet Exelby, Colin Stuart

Stempniak to Phoenix for Matt Jones, 2010 4th Rd (Grubauer), 2010 7th Rd (Jones).

Alexi Ponikarovsky for Martin Skoula, Luca Caputi

Other than the Kessel deal, nothing earth shattering.

But there you go - 4 bad deals.
- Atomic Wedgie

Who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, who and who?

Kessel deal.

Pavel Kubina, Tim Stapleton for Garnet Exelby, Colin Stuart

Stempniak to Phoenix for Matt Jones, 2010 4th Rd (Grubauer), 2010 7th Rd (Jones).

Alexi Ponikarovsky for Martin Skoula, Luca Caputi

Other than the Kessel deal, nothing earth shattering.

But there you go - 4 bad deals.
- Atomic Wedgie

i watched the chicago game last night....stahlberg looks good.
that one is still open for debate.

Kessel deal.

Pavel Kubina, Tim Stapleton for Garnet Exelby, Colin Stuart

Stempniak to Phoenix for Matt Jones, 2010 4th Rd (Grubauer), 2010 7th Rd (Jones).

Alexi Ponikarovsky for Martin Skoula, Luca Caputi

Other than the Kessel deal, nothing earth shattering.

But there you go - 4 bad deals.
- Atomic Wedgie

Didn't Burke bring in the Finger?? That was not a good move..

This is what I'm trying to say....

Are we a better team today with Seguin and without Kessel? I sincerely doubt it.
- PTVinnyMac

... but do I care if we are a better team today.

Not when compared to the future.

I don't see the Leafs contending before Kessel's contract is up. Then it is either give him a raise or let him walk. (does he have a NTC?)

I just see us looking back one day and realizing that Kessel didnt get us any closer to the goal and Seguin is a legit number 1 center and Hamilton is a legit top pair Dman.

This is of course worst case scenario, but I don't think it is that big of a stretch.

i watched the chicago game last night....stahlberg looks good.
that one is still open for debate.
- Barx

Two words: Jonathan Toews

According to CapGeek (someone correct me if I'm reading this wrong), he has a NTC - not a NMC.

The last three years of his contract are $3 million, $2 million, $2 million - so if the Leafs wanted to, they could bury him in the A and never worry about it.

If the price was right, I'd take Carter.
- Atomic Wedgie

i think the NTC kicks in next year

Didn't Burke bring in the Finger?? That was not a good move..
- bixll

nope. Fletcher
same with the Stempniak trade

uh, what exactly was uncontested last time? The players gave up a whole season, I would say that was some contesting.

Fehr is not worse than Goodenow and I don't think the players will let another whole season go.

The owners, under Bettman, will win this battle every time.
- GoneFullRetard

It was uncontested in the sense that once the owners broke the union (which was weak and unorganized under poor leadership at the time), they basically unilaterally implemented all of their demands.

Of course, all the great idea the owners thought they had ended up being duds and we're right back to the drawing board.

The players were in no position to win last time. The owners will take their licks this time around and the players know it.

The NHL was the only major pro league in North America to lose an entire season due to a work stoppage. Maybe the owners had a point last time around: the system needed to change (Bill Guerin signing for 10 million in Dallas is a good example).

I don't think they'll get much sympathy this time around. And the recession has put a lot of markets in financial hot water. Are those southern American markets ever going to get back what few fans they have left after cancelling the season for the second time in 7-8 years?

Clearly, again, you don't have your "I Hate Toronto" goggles on...cause if you did you'd see that Parise doesn't want to go to Toronto and that's not based off him saying it or anything, it's just based off the fact anybody who hates Toronto has to say that in order to express how big of a fan of their own team they are.
- Juice

I know what you mean. Everybody keeps saying that Leaf fans keep expecting top free agent to sign here but they never do.

Well eventually we have to get one.

Especially with all the big long term deals that players have been signing and how everybody spends near the cap, there are teams that probably want Parise but can't fit him in there. The Leafs should be able to fit him in their cap space.

Two words: Jonathan Toews
- Juice

come on...have you seen him play lately?
sure toews makes everyone look better, but stahlberg is solid.
it's open for debate, we'll see how percy turns out.....

What wins it for me between Seguin and Kessel is that Kessel would still be putting up the points if he were in Boston.

If Seguin were in Toronto right now I don't think he puts up good numbers yet.
- leafs93

That's the key word right there. We won't know yet who actually is better for a few more years.

Didn't Burke bring in the Finger?? That was not a good move..
- bixll

no

Absolutely...but at this point; they have a player who doesn't want to be there...when he's playing he doesn't play hard because again; he doesn't want to be there.

They can be stubborn and hold out for the equivalent to what they traded away and continue to hurt the team, or they can make the best hockey deal for their team and for moving the franchise forward.

It'll have to be somewhere between your point and mine I'd imagine.
- Juice

Is there somewhere that shows hes unhappy? I am not doubting you, it just seems a lot the time peope assume stuff and it becomes truth. I really wouldnt put much stock into the "hes not happy" part unless He or Columbus ..or Carters Mom have said so

I know what you mean. Everybody keeps saying that Leaf fans keep expecting top free agent to sign here but they never do.

Well eventually we have to get one.

Especially with all the big long term deals that players have been signing and how everybody spends near the cap, there are teams that probably want Parise but can't fit him in there. The Leafs should be able to fit him in their cap space.
- leafs93

Our only hope is that stupid picture of him as a kid wearing a Leafs hat

nope. Fletcher
same with the Stempniak trade
- Juice

So, Cliff gave Burke the Finger as a going away present...

I would not give up more than Kadri, Schenn, MacArthur and maybe a prospect for anybody right now. We also need to keep our future 1st round picks.

Also, we are one of the youngest teams in the league. Why blow that up to get a front line player when a guy like Parise might be available during the offseason and we don't have to give up anybody.

We are close to something good starting in Toronto, I would hate to see a setback because we dropped 3 players for 1 player who might not pan out.
- leafs93

I wouldnt even give up that much