Wrong Wrong Wrong......... Seguin plays on the best team in hockey...... HUGE advantage right now. Best D in junior hockey doesn't amount to anything in the NHL right now does it?? Until he plays a couple of years in the NHL, he is strictly a PROSCPECT......... nothing more.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush...... Prospects prospects, draft picks........ they are all a crap shoot
- faceto27

Obviously no point in debating this. You won't change your mind and I won't change mine.

point taken
- GoneFullRetard

I'm just screwin with ya, but seriously I think there should be a reasonably legitimate market out there for Carter. Carter's too good to be dumped for scrubs or even a bad offer, he's traded for assets, or not traded at all, imo.

Prove ...no. Regret ...in hindsight, yes. I'm on the record as saying I would have made the deal at that point in time. Two Kadri's and a Knight for Kessel .....any day of the week. The problem was Toskola and the Leafs were far worse then anybody not named Uggie would have predicted.

F'n Toskola.
- The Law

Check the record: I have been remarkably consistent in saying this:

Burke should never have made that trade, precisely because of Toskala.

He was the worst starter in the league the year before, and then had two or three surgeries.

The only roster changes of significance were the additions of Komisarek and Blowchemin - which was offset by the loss of Kubina.

There was no reason for optimism.

Obviously no point in debating this. You won't change your mind and I won't change mine.
- GoneFullRetard

Fair enough

The only true test of this deal really, would be if Seguin was surrounded by the same talent level that Kessel was for the most part. If Seguin came here, is he leadin the Leafs in points and carrying the team's offence essentially? Would he have the numbers he has in Boston here in TO?

Kessel has shown he can be better when surrounded by good talent. Which would lead anyone to speculate, that with the right type of #1C he could hit even higher point totals.
- PTVinnyMac

Not to mention; put some crappy goaltending behind Seguin and watch his coaches and the media rip apart every mistake he makes like Kessel has tolerated.

Fortunately for Seguin, he can make a mistake and has two NHL star goalies to back him up...not a hot AHL goalie and a "supposed to be" undrafted free agent signing.

Again...not saying Kessel is better or that the leafs won that deal cause I don't think they did. I just think Seguin is in a MUCH better situation in Boston.

Don't get me wrong. In hindsight I wouldn't have made the deal.

I do think if you put a crappy goalie behind Seguin, he has to play a different style of game and absolutely has less points then he has right now.

It's not that I think the Leafs got the better deal, cause I don't. I just think the anti-Leafs are so excited to rip the deal apart and make fun of the leafs that they're letting every tiny little thing make them click on the "" symbol a little too easily.

EDIT: And I will NEVER understand why Burke would not have lottery protected the pick(s). If that topic didn't even come up because he was too busy being cocky...that's f'ing garbage.
- Juice

Good point about Lottery protected picks. He absolutely shat the bed on that one. Chiarelli would have taken it too. Boston HAD to unload Kessel... and we ended up giving them more than the RFA compensation.

On the other hand I guess if we went the offer-sheet route, we would not have got any return for Kaberle... at least not a return that good. I believe Chiarelli did Burke a favor there.

Yah, Sorry Wedge,

Hows the weather where you are and what are you having for Dinner tonight??
- bixll

Bacon with wine.

Hey, wait a minute...

They are both plus 3 players. So saying Kulemin is amazing defensively and such a complete player still doesn't translate into the statistics.

Kulemin never has really impressed me. Even when he scored his 30 goals, most times it seemed he would either score to pad the lead when the game was over or would get a goal when the other team was up 4 or 5 goals. Personally I don't feel he'll ever be a difference maker and Kadri has that potential
- Sheppy99

Not being rude or mean, but your view is the opposite to almost everyone in hockey right now.

The only true test of this deal really, would be if Seguin was surrounded by the same talent level that Kessel was for the most part. If Seguin came here, is he leadin the Leafs in points and carrying the team's offence essentially? Would he have the numbers he has in Boston here in TO?

Kessel has shown he can be better when surrounded by good talent. Which would lead anyone to speculate, that with the right type of #1C he could hit even higher point totals.
- PTVinnyMac

Kessel has not carried the Leafs offense for over a month and was HORRIBLE last night.

Yes, with a #1 center he might put up more numbers but his tendency to disappear for LONG stretches of games is consistent.

Kessel has not carried the Leafs offense for over a month and was HORRIBLE last night.

Yes, with a #1 center he might put up more numbers but his tendency to disappear for LONG stretches of games is consistent.
- GoneFullRetard

The inconsistency might disappear with a legitimate centre, hes just the stereotypical streaky winger

Yah, Sorry Wedge,

Hows the weather where you are and what are you having for Dinner tonight??
- bixll

RealKyper
I know Ray Ferraro works for #those*#*!ers@tsn but I just wanted to say he's a good guy who doesn't have a malicious bone in his body.

Good point about Lottery protected picks. He absolutely shat the bed on that one. Chiarelli would have taken it too. Boston HAD to unload Kessel... and we ended up giving them more than the RFA compensation.

On the other hand I guess if we went the offer-sheet route, we would not have got any return for Kaberle... at least not a return that good. I believe Chiarelli did Burke a favor there.
- GoneFullRetard

I wonder...I'm sure there was a little bit of "meh, I can afford it" on Chiarelli's part.

What I don't get, is why Burke would be so aggressive to get Kessel and so vocally aggressive about trying to trade for the Tavares pick and then when Stamkos was an RFA last year; he did nothing. - I'm going to assume he heard that Stamkos 150% planned to stay in Tampa, but why push so hard for Kessel and put in zero effort for a player like Stamkos.

He already threw the real rebuild out the window when he traded for Kessel, why not go the extra mile and try for Stamkos...perhaps cause he learned his own lesson from the Kessel trade I guess.

But now I've gone in a pointless direction and into a pointless conversation.

Let's jump tooooooo...ummmmmm....assuming there will be a Leafs trade, what will it be? Will be for a Stastny or bigger?

Kessel has not carried the Leafs offense for over a month and was HORRIBLE last night.

Yes, with a #1 center he might put up more numbers but his tendency to disappear for LONG stretches of games is consistent.
- GoneFullRetard

he tends to disappear cause the other teams focus is usually on shutting him down. Shut Phil down and the rest of the team does struggle for offense.

Wrong Wrong Wrong......... Seguin plays on the best team in hockey...... HUGE advantage right now. Best D in junior hockey doesn't amount to anything in the NHL right now does it?? Until he plays a couple of years in the NHL, he is strictly a PROSCPECT......... nothing more.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush...... Prospects prospects, draft picks........ they are all a crap shoot
- faceto27

Also, how was the Phaneuf and Lupul trades bad? They were fantastic.

is the fact that you think there's a market for Carter, actually a problem though?
- Nastradamus

Of course there is a market...if he can be tradef once...he can be traded again. The salary is a great # long term. It's the length of the term that scares some teams off...but if he doesn't get a long term injury the lenght of term could be a taken as a positive really.

The inconsistency might disappear with a legitimate centre, hes just the stereotypical streaky winger
- Nastradamus

The problem I have with the bad streaks is that there is always two common elements.

1) He suddenly looks like he has lost all confidence. You can see it now because he looks to pass ALL THE TIME. Kessel is one of the best goal scorers in the NHL. I have no idea why all of a sudden his confidence is shot

2) He looks disinterested. He was like a demon out there for the first 30 games. Now, he is practically invisible.

I see every possibility that these two things just don't change. He is an incredible talent without the killer mentality.

I have contributed nothing of substance.

Nor has anyone else.

We are all here wasting time.

That about catches you up.
- GoneFullRetard

Excellent.

I wonder...I'm sure there was a little bit of "meh, I can afford it" on Chiarelli's part.

What I don't get, is why Burke would be so aggressive to get Kessel and so vocally aggressive about trying to trade for the Tavares pick and then when Stamkos was an RFA last year; he did nothing. - I'm going to assume he heard that Stamkos 150% planned to stay in Tampa, but why push so hard for Kessel and put in zero effort for a player like Stamkos.

He already threw the real rebuild out the window when he traded for Kessel, why not go the extra mile and try for Stamkos...perhaps cause he learned his own lesson from the Kessel trade I guess.

But now I've gone in a pointless direction and into a pointless conversation.


Let's jump tooooooo...ummmmmm....assuming there will be a Leafs trade, what will it be? Will be for a Stastny or bigger?
- Juice

Played with Stamkos golf during the past summer, when he hadn't signed yet. he had every intention of resigning with Tampa....... they were just dotting the i's and crossing the t's

Let's say the cap is going to stay the same... The Leafs will have just over $11 million to re-sign Grrabovski (UFA), Crabb (UFA), Boyce (RFA), Franson (RFA), Aulie (RFA) and Gustavsson (UFA). I guess you prioritize them, and sign them as you can:

Grabovski: $5 m
Franson: $1m
Aulie: $1m
Crabb: $1m
Gustavsson: ????
Boyce: ????
- Cimo

The cap will go up. Probably to at least 66m. As long as revenues are up the cap will move. The NHL continues to make money and have only grown with the addition of the Winnipeg Jets

I say Crabb and Aulie is about right. We won't end up keeping Gustavsson he'll end up in Tampa Bay or some poop. If Boyce stays he'll be a Marlie again.

I think Grabo stays it will be a 3 year, 4.5 per

I say Franson makes around 1.8-2.25m just because of his offensive upside. Burke will probably try to negotiate a 2 year deal so he can be restricted again.

Also have to resign Kulemin, who will probably get about 2.75-3m

We'll be fine for capspace. Burke has a whole team of guys that make these things work

Point being what??
- faceto27

the point being is the leafs always trade out their prosepcts for immediate help

and it never works

Also, how was the Phaneuf and Lupul trades bad? They were fantastic.
- Domaju

I have no idea what that poster was referring to when he said Burke made 4 bad deals. He is clueless

I wonder...I'm sure there was a little bit of "meh, I can afford it" on Chiarelli's part.

What I don't get, is why Burke would be so aggressive to get Kessel and so vocally aggressive about trying to trade for the Tavares pick and then when Stamkos was an RFA last year; he did nothing. - I'm going to assume he heard that Stamkos 150% planned to stay in Tampa, but why push so hard for Kessel and put in zero effort for a player like Stamkos.

He already threw the real rebuild out the window when he traded for Kessel, why not go the extra mile and try for Stamkos...perhaps cause he learned his own lesson from the Kessel trade I guess.

But now I've gone in a pointless direction and into a pointless conversation.

Let's jump tooooooo...ummmmmm....assuming there will be a Leafs trade, what will it be? Will be for a Stastny or bigger?
- Juice

I hope not Stastny.

As for RFA's. It is absolutely 100% crystal clear that there is now an agreement among GM's to not poach each other's RFA's. There is no other way to explain this past summer.

Also, how was the Phaneuf and Lupul trades bad? They were fantastic.
- Domaju

... I was not talking from the Leafs perspective.

From the ANA and CGY perspective, those trades were worse than Kessel IMO.

I still think Grabo should be onthe # 1 line .

Lupul - Grabo - Kessel
Mac - Bozak - Lombo
Kuli - Conn - Armstrong
Crabb - Steckel - Brown

thoughts???