Did anyone see Tocchet yapping on twitter last night with his proclamations?

- Pronger will be back
- JVR will not be traded unless for Weber
_ Schenn could be moved
- bgratch

I really cant evaluate B. Schenn at this point. He is a young player who is getting his first real chance to play. Injuries have really hurt his opportunity at this point. Not sure where I would put him at this time, as far as what he will be.

yep and you're bang on.

I will superfly Snuka anybody who sees it differently, hopefully Bradley.
- Buts16

Trade JVR!

It depends. It could prevent a bidding war, or you could end up over paying... Your taking a gamble to talk to the guy before anyone else, and that could work out for you.

Example:

Player A gets traded to the Flyers and wants 4.2 million for 3 years. He is from Toronto, and would likely decide to sign with Toronto if they made a similiar offer, But since the Flyers already traded for him, and are giving him what he wants, he signs, taking Toronto completely out of the equasion.
- RooNosHockey

If the player wanted that much to go to Toronto, I would think they would want more with the Flyers or they would just wait until they hit the market and try Toronto.

I was screaming.......a third round pick? yesssssssss Seriously I like Powe but lets be real, they had guys who could replace what he does
- nastyflyergirl

Ya, it was just a select few who couldn't see that he was a dime-a-dozen player. Nice way to turn an undrafted free agent into a 3rd rounder, whom we'll eventually trade for Hal Gill.

I really cant evaluate B. Schenn at this point. He is a young player who is getting his first real chance to play. Injuries have really hurt his opportunity at this point. Not sure where I would put him at this time, as far as what he will be.
- stveshdy

His performance in juniors and the AHL means I want a premium for him. You want Schenn, IMO, you're going to overpay for him.

If he wants to go to Toronto that badly, like Hamhuis wanted to go to Vancouver, he will. The Flyers managed to recoup the pick, but that won't always happen.

I will say that, for the most part, Holmgren usually has a deal 75-80% done BEFORE he trades for rights. He went to Nashville in the Timonen/Hartnell deal, and got a window to negotiate and had the deals basically done by the time the trade was announced.

Still, that said, I'd rather keep the picks than trade them for a week's advanced negotiations.
- Jsaquella

But the player doesn't know if Toronto is interested, or if he does, he doenst know if the offer will be what the Flyers offer. They run the risk of the market dropping out on them as well like Nabakov, Vokoun, McCabe, Etc... So normally as long as they like the offer the Flyers are making, and like the direction of the team, it's a better situation for all.

Could you imagine what would have happened if Nabakov accepted the deal we offered him? No Russia, no Islanders... Nabakov gambled that he could get more, was wrong, and it cost him.... BIG TIME.

Ya, it was just a select few who couldn't see that he was a dime-a-dozen player. Nice way to turn an undrafted free agent into a 3rd rounder, whom we'll eventually trade for Hal Gill.
- bradleyc4

He's a gentleman, too. Popular with the ladies.

I'm sure in most cases, GM's use the grapevine to see if the interest is mutual.

It's like an old boys network way of letting a buddy get some kind of asset for a UFA
- Jsaquella

i imagine that's the case. i still don't like it.

Trade JVR!
- bradleyc4

fire stevens?

But the player doesn't know if Toronto is interested, or if he does, he doenst know if the offer will be what the Flyers offer. They run the risk of the market dropping out on them as well like Nabakov, Vokoun, McCabe, Etc... So normally as long as they like the offer the Flyers are making, and like the direction of the team, it's a better situation for all.

Could you imagine what would have happened if Nabakov accepted the deal we offered him? No Russia, no Islanders... Nabakov gambled that he could get more, was wrong, and it cost him.... BIG TIME.
- RooNosHockey

It really all depends what you give up for the rights of that player. The more you give, the more leverage the player has, and the more you will ultimately pay.

See JVR is smarter than Carter or Richards. If they wanted to stay, they could have faked a concussion too. Richards, "I got into a fight at a bar in center city, or south street and got hit in the head." Carter, "I got donkey punched in the head via a weird sex act down in Avalon..."
- leon neon

Anyone else see on Jeopardy last night? The answer was a punch to the back of the head and the contestant said the question was - "What is a Donkey Punch?". I was howling.

His performance in juniors and the AHL means I want a premium for him. You want Schenn, IMO, you're going to overpay for him.
- Jsaquella

Yeah. His numbers are very good in juniors and the AHL. Do you think the Flyers had to overpay to acquire him? I just hope Schenn isnt one of the those players who is an inbetweener, too good for AHL and just average at the NHL level. Like I said, I havent seen enough of him to evaluate how good he can be. I want to see what he can do on the NHL level for an extended period of time. Im not knocking the kid, I really dont know what we have with him yet.

But the player doesn't know if Toronto is interested, or if he does, he doenst know if the offer will be what the Flyers offer. They run the risk of the market dropping out on them as well like Nabakov, Vokoun, McCabe, Etc... So normally as long as they like the offer the Flyers are making, and like the direction of the team, it's a better situation for all.

Could you imagine what would have happened if Nabakov accepted the deal we offered him? No Russia, no Islanders... Nabakov gambled that he could get more, was wrong, and it cost him.... BIG TIME.
- RooNosHockey

It did cost Nabokov. It also cost Vokoun.

You think that agents don't have an idea of who is interested and who isn't before July 1st? You really think that it takes 2 months to re-sign a restricted free agent, but a UFA signs a multi year deal in a half hour?

In cases like Nabokov and Vokoun, both guys had turned down multi-year offers from their team at the time. San Jose reportedly offered Nabby a 3 year deal, and Florida more or less admitted they were offering Vokoun $4mm per for at least 2 or 3 years.

Both of their agents felt they could do better in the open market. Vokoun, especially after seeing the Flyers sign Bryzgalov.

Also, you'll notice that both Nabokov and Vokoun are goalies, and goalies are generally one area where teams hesitate to spend big bucks on a UFA.

As for McCabe, his goal was location, if the rumors are true. It had little to do with wanting a big payday. He either wanted to stay in Florida or go back to Long Island, where his wife's family lives.

Yeah. His numbers are very good in juniors and the AHL. Do you think the Flyers had to overpay to acquire him? I just hope Schenn isnt one of the those players who is an inbetweener, too good for AHL and just average at the NHL level. Like I said, I havent seen enough of him to evaluate how good he can be. I want to see what he can do on the NHL level for an extended period of time. Im not knocking the kid, I really dont know what we have with him yet.
- stveshdy

You have one of the best prospects in hockey. Still. Injuries have stalled his 2011-2012 season thus far, but he should be in peak form (towards the end of the season) while others are breaking down.

I really cant evaluate B. Schenn at this point. He is a young player who is getting his first real chance to play. Injuries have really hurt his opportunity at this point. Not sure where I would put him at this time, as far as what he will be.
- stveshdy

Couturier has been hot lately. He really likes taking that corner shot from the right side. If the Flyers hold onto Schenn and Couturier, do you think with all the centers we have we could move him to RW next season and leave Giroux, Schenn, Briere, and Talbot at center?

Yeah. His numbers are very good in juniors and the AHL. Do you think the Flyers had to overpay to acquire him? I just hope Schenn isnt one of the those players who is an inbetweener, too good for AHL and just average at the NHL level. Like I said, I havent seen enough of him to evaluate how good he can be. I want to see what he can do on the NHL level for an extended period of time. Im not knocking the kid, I really dont know what we have with him yet.
- stveshdy

I don't think that the Flyers overpaid, I think it was a fair trade for both teams.

It's foolish to declare a kid a bust after 15 games or so, mixed in with injuries and rotating linemates. As far as tools go, Schenn has them. He could easily be a similar player to Richards when all is said and done.

Couturier has been hot lately. He really likes taking that corner shot from the right side. If the Flyers hold onto Schenn and Couturier, do you think with all the centers we have we could move him to RW next season and leave Giroux, Schenn, Briere, and Talbot at center?
- RooNosHockey

If Couturier is a natural center I let him roll with it. He's shown the most between he and Schenn, so why take him out of his natural position? Plus he's too good defensively to waste at wing, IMO.

i imagine that's the case. i still don't like it.
- hammarby31

I don't either. I mean, I'm pretty sure that Timonen and Hartnell would have signed here had they been offered the deals they got on July 1st, and then the Flyers also could have drafted Jon Blum or another player with the pick.

I don't think that the Flyers overpaid, I think it was a fair trade for both teams.

It's foolish to declare a kid a bust after 15 games or so, mixed in with injuries and rotating linemates. As far as tools go, Schenn has them. He could easily be a similar player to Richards when all is said and done.
- Jsaquella

Im far from ruling Schenn a bust after 15 games. Thats why I said I need to evaluate him more over an extended period of time. Injuries have hurt that process this year. I think the kid has tons of talent and potential.

If Couturier is a natural center I let him roll with it. He's shown the most between he and Schenn, so why take him out of his natural position? Plus he's too good defensively to waste at wing, IMO.
- funmaster18

Both have played on the wing as juniors, so it's not foreign to them. Schenn is a better faceoff guy, so they might want to leave him at the dot, even if he's technically playing wing.

Couturier has been hot lately. He really likes taking that corner shot from the right side. If the Flyers hold onto Schenn and Couturier, do you think with all the centers we have we could move him to RW next season and leave Giroux, Schenn, Briere, and Talbot at center?
- RooNosHockey

Talbot should be on the wing. Either this season, of this off-season, I'd like the Flyers to find a 4th line center who can win face-offs and play on the PK.

It did cost Nabokov. It also cost Vokoun.

You think that agents don't have an idea of who is interested and who isn't before July 1st? You really think that it takes 2 months to re-sign a restricted free agent, but a UFA signs a multi year deal in a half hour?

In cases like Nabokov and Vokoun, both guys had turned down multi-year offers from their team at the time. San Jose reportedly offered Nabby a 3 year deal, and Florida more or less admitted they were offering Vokoun $4mm per for at least 2 or 3 years.

Both of their agents felt they could do better in the open market. Vokoun, especially after seeing the Flyers sign Bryzgalov.

Also, you'll notice that both Nabokov and Vokoun are goalies, and goalies are generally one area where teams hesitate to spend big bucks on a UFA.

As for McCabe, his goal was location, if the rumors are true. It had little to do with wanting a big payday. He either wanted to stay in Florida or go back to Long Island, where his wife's family lives.
- Jsaquella

I'm just saying the reason I like trading for rights is it gives the team a better chance to sign the UFA they want, and usually it works out.

There is fast and then there is HarryZ fast.
- Buts16

I'd like to see a race between Harry Z and Read. They can both fly.

Both have played on the wing as juniors, so it's not foreign to them. Schenn is a better faceoff guy, so they might want to leave him at the dot, even if he's technically playing wing.
- Jsaquella

Yeah that would work for me. I just really like the way Couturier is playing at center. But until we really have the full potential of Schenn in front of us, it's hard to make any decision.

I'm just saying the reason I like trading for rights is it gives the team a better chance to sign the UFA they want, and usually it works out.
- RooNosHockey

I get that. But you'd probably still get the guys with what you are offering, and get to keep the picks.

Think Kimmo Timonen would have shot down his contract offer on July 1st if the Flyers didn't hold his rights? Or Hartnell?