Interesting defensive stat re: Carter...

Goals Against per 60 Minutes on Ice (regular season):

JEFF CARTER: 2.64 - this trails behind Hartnell, Powe, Giroux, JVR, Lappy, Gagne, Richards, Betts and (the leader at 1.73 GA per 60 min on Ice) Dan Carcillo. Behind Carter are Leino, Briere and Asham.

That wasn't the argument. It was suggested Carter is paid 90% of the money for offense. I think that's ridiculous. As a forward obviously his primary function is offense, but to suggest his defense is only 10% of his value is silly.
- BulliesPhan87

Most NHL player contracts (for skaters) are predominantly influenced by point production...a potent offensive talent like Carter gets big bucks for producing on the scoreboard. He may get a little extra for also being good defensively, but it's not that significant imo. By contrast, a really good defensive specialist won't get nearly that same amount and won't get all that much extra if he's potting less than, say, 15 goals.

Also, I don't think Carter's defense is on par with Datsyuk or some other top two-way centers...it's good, but not great...people make him sound like a Selke candidate...he's not...Richie is more apt to get one someday imo.

Most NHL player contracts (for skaters) are predominantly influenced by point production...a potent offensive talent like Carter gets big bucks for producing on the scoreboard. He may get a little extra for also being good defensively, but it's not that significant imo. By contrast, a really good defensive specialist won't get nearly that same amount and won't get all that much extra if he's potting less than, say, 15 goals.

Also, I don't think Carter's defense is on par with Datsyuk or some other top two-way centers...it's good, but not great...people make him sound like a Selke candidate...he's not...Richie is more apt to get one someday imo.
- exlund

That wasn't my point. I was suggesting that many top centers are paid so much money for possessing a complete set of skills, that is to say offensive and defensive, and apply them in an effective manner. I'm not trying to say defense is the driving aspect, just that it merits more than the vast minority of such a player's salary. The Datsyuk comparison isn't perfect, but I wasn't looking for an absolute parallel. I think the point was missed.

Then again, I think it's stupid to try and dictate percent salary earned per skill. Having two directions of play is worth multiple times the value of a one way (i.e. strictly defensive or offensive) style.

Interesting defensive stat re: Carter...

Goals Against per 60 Minutes on Ice (regular season):

JEFF CARTER: 2.64 - this trails behind Hartnell, Powe, Giroux, JVR, Lappy, Gagne, Richards, Betts and (the leader at 1.73 GA per 60 min on Ice) Dan Carcillo. Behind Carter are Leino, Briere and Asham.
- exlund

Interesting. I think average time on ice would add some interesting color to this stat as well.

Interesting defensive stat re: Carter...

Goals Against per 60 Minutes on Ice (regular season):

JEFF CARTER: 2.64 - this trails behind Hartnell, Powe, Giroux, JVR, Lappy, Gagne, Richards, Betts and (the leader at 1.73 GA per 60 min on Ice) Dan Carcillo. Behind Carter are Leino, Briere and Asham.
- exlund

Playoffs some trends continued, some didn't:

Goals Against per 60 min on Ice (playoffs)

From worst to best:

JVR - 3.15
Betts - 3.08
Carter -3.05
Hartnell -2.76
Asham -2.69
Richards - 2.61
lappy - 2.59
Carcillo - 2.36
Briere - 2.22
Gagne - 2.12
Giroux - 2.03
Leino - 1.86
Powe - 1.63
(Nodl) - 1.52

That wasn't my point. I was suggesting that many top centers are paid so much money for possessing a complete set of skills, that is to say offensive and defensive, and apply them in an effective manner. I'm not trying to say defense is the driving aspect, just that it merits more than the vast minority of such a player's salary. The Datsyuk comparison isn't perfect, but I wasn't looking for an absolute parallel. I think the point was missed.

Then again, I think it's stupid to try and dictate percent salary earned per skill. Having two directions of play is worth multiple times the value of a one way (i.e. strictly defensive or offensive) style.
- BulliesPhan87

Yeah, I mean the contracts aren't drawn up to compensate by skillset (save certain incentives on some contracts) so it's not like it's easy to make a distinction...I agree that in practical terms, you should look at what a player brings offensive and defensively, but I think the perception is that scoring talent trumps defensive play by a mile...just look at any top goal scorer, they get paid big dollars regardless of their defensive game (Kovy).

Interesting. I think average time on ice would add some interesting color to this stat as well.
- BulliesPhan87

Just to be clear, the stat adjusts for time on ice to a certain extent...it uses an actual 60 minutes played by that player (accumulated across multiple games as needed)...in other words the number isn't the number of goals scored against per game while that player is on the ice, rather, it's the number of goals scored against in 60 minutes of ice time for that player (5 on 5).

I think it's rooted in a perception that Richards works harder out there, more consistently. Carter seems to be a bit...aloof? Sometimes? maybe when he's not scoring, as others mentioned? I guess Richie disappears once in a while too...(usually to come back with a vengeance) but I think he's seen as more of a blood and guts type, an emerging leader, in the Clarkie mold and thus is given more leeway by most...I think it's frustrating sometimes with Carter because, as good as he is, he could be a lot better...if he has another so-so season, do we pay him top dollar in anticipation he will still develop to the next level or pay him for his current value, which is about what he's making now?
- exlund

I agree with your points points concerning Richards V Carter.
If Carter tosses up a similar season to last year then I believe the Flyers will lose him to free agency anyway. The team won't be trying to sign him to a multi year $6-7M/yr contract - they'll try and sign him in the $5.5-6.5M range but ultimately lose him as surely there will be teams throwing those $6-7M figures at him.

Playoffs some trends continued, some didn't:

Goals Against per 60 min on Ice (playoffs)

From worst to best:

JVR - 3.15
Betts - 3.08
Carter -3.05
Hartnell -2.76
Asham -2.69
Richards - 2.61
lappy - 2.59
Carcillo - 2.36
Briere - 2.22
Gagne - 2.12
Giroux - 2.03
Leino - 1.86
Powe - 1.63
(Nodl) - 1.52
- exlund

How can we spin this so that Carter doesn't take any blame for it?

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear the defense...

I agree with your points points concerning Richards V Carter.
If Carter tosses up a similar season to last year then I believe the Flyers will lose him to free agency anyway. The team won't be trying to sign him to a multi year $6-7M/yr contract - they'll try and sign him in the $5.5-6.5M range but ultimately lose him as surely there will be teams throwing those $6-7M figures at him.
- Pixote Andolini

If they're going to give him a 6-7mil per season contract, than Briere needs to be moved.

Who would you rather have...

Spezza at 5m per.. or Carter at 5m per?

Who would you rather have...

Spezza at 5m per.. or Carter at 5m per?
- Nopointshot

Known quantity for me.

Known quantity for me.
- wilsonecho91

Understandable...

I don't watch much of Spezza.. but stat wise.. Spezza's numbers are a lot better.

And spezza makes 7mil a year. Dude also had 3 straight years of 87+ points... And thats with two of them seasons under 70 games...

Carter has had one season over 61 points.

I only brought this up.. to compare the two if Carter would be asking for 7mil.

I really don't think he'll get 7mil, but i think he'll be resigned around 5.8 for a long term deal.. or 6.2ish for a short term deal.

GOALS!

Carter - 40 plus

Richards - 30 plus

Briere - 30

Leino - 25 plus

Zherdev - 25 plus

Hartnell - 25

van Reimsdyk - 20 plus

Giroux - 20

This these are the goals I expect from these players but one or two of these guys may get hurt, which may keep them from reaching these goals.
- dingo8urbaby

uh oh

Playoffs some trends continued, some didn't:

Goals Against per 60 min on Ice (playoffs)

From worst to best:

JVR - 3.15
Betts - 3.08
Carter -3.05
Hartnell -2.76
Asham -2.69
Richards - 2.61
lappy - 2.59
Carcillo - 2.36
Briere - 2.22
Gagne - 2.12
Giroux - 2.03
Leino - 1.86
Powe - 1.63
(Nodl) - 1.52
- exlund

so much for carter being a good player man that guy sucks at defense

so much for carter being a good player man that guy sucks at defense
- NJFlyersFan

why are you allowed to troll?

I don't understand the rules of this board...

why are you allowed to troll?

I don't understand the rules of this board...
- Nopointshot

good question

I think it's rooted in a perception that Richards works harder out there, more consistently. Carter seems to be a bit...aloof? Sometimes? maybe when he's not scoring, as others mentioned? I guess Richie disappears once in a while too...(usually to come back with a vengeance) but I think he's seen as more of a blood and guts type, an emerging leader, in the Clarkie mold and thus is given more leeway by most...I think it's frustrating sometimes with Carter because, as good as he is, he could be a lot better...if he has another so-so season, do we pay him top dollar in anticipation he will still develop to the next level or pay him for his current value, which is about what he's making now?
- exlund

Carter is such a smooth skater I think people sometimes think he's not working hard or trying when he actually is. Carter can flat out fly, I guess if he had short choppy strides like Recchi he'd get a pass.

Carter had a so so season everybody is saying but the last two regular seasons he's had better numbers/stats then Richards the so is it justified paying Richards more than Carter?

Then people will argue well Richards does the little things well and Carter doesn't yet Carter leads in GWG, plays PP, plays PK and is the teams best face off man and was more consistent then Richards last season so he does everything as well.

It's been beaten to death on here over and over. The simply fact is the people that rip on Carter are wrong and make up foolish comments, the stats and common sense prove this point over and over! Does Carter need to improve facets of his game, sure he does but every NHL player needs to improve.

Go Flyers

How can we spin this so that Carter doesn't take any blame for it?

I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear the defense...
- Nopointshot

Do you think playing against the other teams top lines with two broken feet may have had something to do with it?

Sorry I shouldn't have asked you to think.

so early

Interesting defensive stat re: Carter...

Goals Against per 60 Minutes on Ice (regular season):

JEFF CARTER: 2.64 - this trails behind Hartnell, Powe, Giroux, JVR, Lappy, Gagne, Richards, Betts and (the leader at 1.73 GA per 60 min on Ice) Dan Carcillo. Behind Carter are Leino, Briere and Asham.
- exlund

Where do you find such a stat, I would be curious how other players on other teams rank.

Buts, I'm making breakfast

Andoullie, Eggs, fresh veggies from the garden, strong coffee

Buts, I'm making breakfast

Andoullie, Eggs, fresh veggies from the garden, strong coffee
- nails

sweeet

I'm drinking a Tim Horton's coffee

Pondering the day of hockey and beer, should be interesting.

sweeet

I'm drinking a Tim Horton's coffee

Pondering the day of hockey and beer, should be interesting.
- Buts16

when isn't it when you are involved

when isn't it when you are involved
- ob18

Hockey tournament got cancelled but we are having a hockey team party anyway.

hockey at 2pm and pool party at 4pm

that equals wooot

sweeet

I'm drinking a Tim Horton's coffee

Pondering the day of hockey and beer, should be interesting.
- Buts16

Beer and hockey...I get neither for a while.
First sleepless night with Thing 3.
I don't even know what day it is, but I can still whip up a mean breakfast