Yep but why let facts get in the way of a narrative?
- Cush29

Also there was that one year where

Marner had 4 assists and
Galchenyuk had 1g 3a


$10.9M on the way to $13.5/8 baby!!!


What a (frank)ing joke

Edit: nice alliteration

Yep but why let facts get in the way of a narrative?
- Cush29

Just keeping in mind that games 1-4 actually matter you know. It's not like he isn't contributing. As I said before he has 3 GWG which is the same as Willy - and Willy is more of a shooter than Marner. Marner's actual role is to distribute the puck, so you would actually expect fewer goals from him - we all know this, but in this case you - and far too many Leaf fans - are letting anger get in the way of the facts, too.

It's not is disparaging as we all think - in fact if anything they all sort of suck and we're arguing about practically immaterial things:

The wheels on the bus go round and round…

Just keeping in mind that games 1-4 actually matter you know. It's not like he isn't contributing. As I said before he has 3 GWG which is the same as Willy - and Willy is more of a shooter than Marner. Marner's actual role is to distribute the puck, so you would actually expect fewer goals from him - we all know this, but in this case you - and far too many Leaf fans - are letting anger get in the way of the facts, too.

It's not is disparaging as we all think - in fact if anything they all sort of suck and we're arguing about practically immaterial things:


- Monkeypunk

No I am not letting “anger get in the way of facts” - you may want to check the know it all attitude when it comes to people’s motivation for why they post.

Marner has not delivered in late series games almost if not every year proportional to his salary - fact.

Yes other Leaf players can be put into that same box.

Yes obviously games 1-4 are important and. Nobody is going to deny that. 🙄

also. never forget

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74B5kMLNd5Q
- drexel

Omg 🤣

Bass player shreddies at 1:25 😆

Who knows. Marner could become a whole new player under Berube. Good chance he is more scared of Berube than of going to the dirty spots in the playoffs.

Who knows. Marner could become a whole new player under Berube. Good chance he is more scared of Berube than of going to the dirty spots in the playoffs.
- jribout

How long until the first time Berube loses his poop on the bench? 😆

How long until the first time Berube loses his poop on the bench? 😆
- GalacticStone

It’s already been done. Part of getting him hired was to offer the home bench over to him to give it a go. 😁

No I am not letting “anger get in the way of facts” - you may want to check the know it all attitude when it comes to people’s motivation for why they post.

Marner has not delivered in late series games almost if not every year proportional to his salary - fact.

Yes other Leaf players can be put into that same box.

Yes obviously games 1-4 are important and. Nobody is going to deny that. 🙄
- Cush29

Instead of getting confrontational, Cush, you could note that there are a ton of Leaf fans piling on Mitch Marner - as if he is the cause of the Leafs woes when there is statistical proof that he's not. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are a "know it all". I'm a know it all because I'm right!

Look, here's my point . . . He's the only one of those 4 who actually has more than 1 GWG in a series clinching game. My point here is that Marner isn't the cause of the team's problems. I'm not saying he couldn't or perhaps shouldn't be traded for the right type of move - but he should absolutely not be moved without a cohesive plan for what to do with that cap space - or how to ensure that the changes amount to a positive team change (ie, goals prevented amount to goals created). If it's to get another (frank)ing guy like Klingberg - no thank you very much.

Look at the PP numbers for this team - all of them - in clinching games:

I looked at the team since 2016 in Clinching games and the Toronto Maple Leafs have had 43 powerplay opportunities in series clinching games and scored 4 goals (9.3%); in all other games they are 24/123 - 19.5% - which is still well below their regular season performance, but notably better than in games that affect the outcome of a series. Our opponents in those same series clinching games have also had 43 opportunities - but they have scored 10 goals (23.3%). In all other scenarios the Leafs' opponents are 33/124 - 26.6%.

The inability of this team to score on the PP or step up on the PK can't be laid solely at Marner's feet, either. My point here is that it's a team of choke artists, not an individual.

You sure? Maybe that's the real reason why he was on the toilet for 2 games vs Boston.

We can play this blame game all day. Reality is, all the Leafs star players, collectively, have not done well in the playoffs. You can't point at only one and not the others because they've all had playoff flop years.
- Rare_Jewel

Yeah well, Marner should have grabbed a (frank)ing chair when the (frank)ing music stopped.

I'm sure all those guys are going to trip over themselves to sign for a discount with the Leafs.
- Rare_Jewel

Good thing all the home grown talent is.....

Instead of getting confrontational, Cush, you could note that there are a ton of Leaf fans piling on Mitch Marner - as if he is the cause of the Leafs woes when there is statistical proof that he's not. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are a "know it all". I'm a know it all because I'm right!

Look, here's my point . . . He's the only one of those 4 who actually has more than 1 GWG in a series clinching game. My point here is that Marner isn't the cause of the team's problems. I'm not saying he couldn't or perhaps shouldn't be traded for the right type of move - but he should absolutely not be moved without a cohesive plan for what to do with that cap space - or how to ensure that the changes amount to a positive team change (ie, goals prevented amount to goals created). If it's to get another (frank)ing guy like Klingberg - no thank you very much.

Look at the PP numbers for this team - all of them - in clinching games:

I looked at the team since 2016 in Clinching games and the Toronto Maple Leafs have had 43 powerplay opportunities in series clinching games and scored 4 goals (9.3%); in all other games they are 24/123 - 19.5% - which is still well below their regular season performance, but notably better than in games that affect the outcome of a series. Our opponents in those same series clinching games have also had 43 opportunities - but they have scored 10 goals (23.3%). In all other scenarios the Leafs' opponents are 33/124 - 26.6%.

The inability of this team to score on the PP or step up on the PK can't be laid solely at Marner's feet, either. My point here is that it's a team of choke artists, not an individual.
- Monkeypunk

But Marner is so valuable because he leads the PK and PP.......

But Marner is so valuable because he leads the PK and PP.......
- golfingsince

and is a selke-nominated player as well

Martinook or Joshua for 3rd line LW

Bet on Blais

Canucks:

Never won. Ever.
Irrelevant. The Oatmeal of the NHL. Beige.
1970 vs 1967…cocky over 3 years?
Celebrate consolation trophies.
Inferiority complex.
Riots. City on fire. Crack.

Oh sorry my bad - wrong thread

Well coaching staff filling out. Draft fast approaching. And Tre talking to PV (Ducks) was interesting. Tre hard at work, sayn not a whole lot so pretty close to the vest as it goes.

Buckle up an get the popcorn ready cause think once the cup is awarded and the draft gets real close it should get pretty lively.

so a comedy show?
- drexel

That's illegal now.

Yeah well, Marner should have grabbed a (frank)ing chair when the (frank)ing music stopped.


- oldstyle

So if Marner told everybody "sorry, my ankle hurts, I'm not playing in half the series" I bet absolutely nobody would be giving him poop right now? Right?

Right...

Instead of getting confrontational, Cush, you could note that there are a ton of Leaf fans piling on Mitch Marner - as if he is the cause of the Leafs woes when there is statistical proof that he's not. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are a "know it all". I'm a know it all because I'm right!

Look, here's my point . . . He's the only one of those 4 who actually has more than 1 GWG in a series clinching game. My point here is that Marner isn't the cause of the team's problems. I'm not saying he couldn't or perhaps shouldn't be traded for the right type of move - but he should absolutely not be moved without a cohesive plan for what to do with that cap space - or how to ensure that the changes amount to a positive team change (ie, goals prevented amount to goals created). If it's to get another (frank)ing guy like Klingberg - no thank you very much.

Look at the PP numbers for this team - all of them - in clinching games:

I looked at the team since 2016 in Clinching games and the Toronto Maple Leafs have had 43 powerplay opportunities in series clinching games and scored 4 goals (9.3%); in all other games they are 24/123 - 19.5% - which is still well below their regular season performance, but notably better than in games that affect the outcome of a series. Our opponents in those same series clinching games have also had 43 opportunities - but they have scored 10 goals (23.3%). In all other scenarios the Leafs' opponents are 33/124 - 26.6%.

The inability of this team to score on the PP or step up on the PK can't be laid solely at Marner's feet, either. My point here is that it's a team of choke artists, not an individual.
- Monkeypunk

I don’t care about what others are doing or saying in this context Monkey. You decided to paint everyone with one brush me included and stated something in relation to me was not true. It’s really that simple & why I said what I said - view it as confrontation if you will.

You ignoring this fact and trying to chastise me for being confrontational is pretty rich.

Regardless Here is a counter point.

Stats don’t tell the whole story.

I know you don’t like to hear that and perhaps don’t believe it and that’s fine (it’s your opinion) but maybe you could try to see the point of view of others that don’t share your view of stats telling the whole story?

To outright say Marner isn’t the cause of this teams problems is partially false. He isn’t the cause of all their problems but he most defiantly is part of their problems and a big part of that is his salary and playoff performances IMO.

I’m not interested in debating every point you’ve made as I agree with some of them, disagree with others but I also never said Marner needed for be traded full stop and at any cost. I have said he will likely be back and if traded it needs to be to do what is needed to help this team - yes there has to be a plan.

I find it pretty hard to not share the opinion of many that Marner can’t play through a grinding physical playoff game.

I’ve watched it with my own eyes far too many times - sorry I didn’t keep stats of how many times I saw this just know it’s been years of it come playoffs. I don’t think I’m alone in seeing this either, it’s been widely noted by the “hockey experts”.

How anyone could ignore that and use stats to paint Marner as an adequate playoff performer at 10.9 M is beyond me but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What’s the saying opinions are like bumholes - everyone has them and far too many are poopty?

Have a good Thursday.

via GIPHY

It’s already been done. Part of getting him hired was to offer the home bench over to him to give it a go. 😁
- Dozzer

Berube is a scary meathead. He fought some of hockey's most legendary pugilists and held his own. He still looks like an intense dude. I would NOT mess with him now. If he came up to me in a Walmart and talked poop, I'd say "Yes sir, you are correct." and then run away to the nearest exit and hope he can't run fast.

He is going to try getting tougher with the players, and I think some Leafs will respond well to that. I want to see Matthews complete his transformation into a Stamkos-like way of playing physical. Not overly physical, but also not afraid to get nasty when necessary. You want some of these guys to have that "switch" that can be flipped and don't discourage them from flipping it in certain situations.

I'm not sure guys like Marner will respond well to that type of coaching and play. He's a finesse guy and I don't see him laying big hits, dropping gloves, or getting dirty-ish.

It's going to be interesting. I'm anxious to see how it turns out. I know what Tampa is doing, so they are not as interesting at the moment. Re-sign Stamkos, extend Hedman, retool around them with Point-Sergachev-Vasi-Kuch-Hagel-Paul, run it back again and again until they flame out completely like Chicago or die a slow death like Pittsburgh. It will be fun to watch, but not very exciting.

This Leafs roster has not peaked yet. Berube is a totally new playing style for this skill-heavy finesse team. We could see some pleasant surprises and transformations.

This isn't going out on a limb, but I expect Knies to thrive under Berube. Dude will become a beast with the right coaching.

via GIPHY

- dmnted

What gets me, is the automatic assumption it's hating on Marner.
I couldn't care less about him personally. It's just the fact his contract is due, he's looking for a raise he didn't really earn, and his agent has a history of screwing teams over for his client (ie. he's good at his job)
From a fan's perspective, I don't care what 34 and 88 make anymore, because they're locked in, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
It boils down to this:
Say Marner had played for another team last year, and was a UFA this year. Even knowing he wants to play here, and even if he was willing to 'leave money on the table', and sign for 12.5M, I wouldn't sign him. He simply plays a position, that is not as important as other positions the team needs to fill, if it has any hope of ever winning.
That's it. Regardless even of how he's been in the playoffs. He's simply a luxury you can't afford, when your #1 D-man, is not as good as most teams #2, and your #2 would be #4 at best on any other playoff team.

Berube is a scary meathead. He fought some of hockey's most legendary pugilists and held his own. He still looks like an intense dude. I would NOT mess with him now. If he came up to me in a Walmart and talked poop, I'd say "Yes sir, you are correct." and then run away to the nearest exit and hope he can't run fast.

He is going to try getting tougher with the players, and I think some Leafs will respond well to that. I want to see Matthews complete his transformation into a Stamkos-like way of playing physical. Not overly physical, but also not afraid to get nasty when necessary. You want some of these guys to have that "switch" that can be flipped and don't discourage them from flipping it in certain situations.

I'm not sure guys like Marner will respond well to that type of coaching and play. He's a finesse guy and I don't see him laying big hits, dropping gloves, or getting dirty-ish.

It's going to be interesting. I'm anxious to see how it turns out. I know what Tampa is doing, so they are not as interesting at the moment. Re-sign Stamkos, extend Hedman, retool around them with Point-Sergachev-Vasi-Kuch-Hagel-Paul, run it back again and again until they flame out completely like Chicago or die a slow death like Pittsburgh. It will be fun to watch, but not very exciting.

This Leafs roster has not peaked yet. Berube is a totally new playing style for this skill-heavy finesse team. We could see some pleasant surprises and transformations.

This isn't going out on a limb, but I expect Knies to thrive under Berube. Dude will become a beast with the right coaching.
- GalacticStone

How I’m seeing things with him too, willing to bet that’s why he met with Marner already. Basically letting Marner know what game will be played and if he doesn’t play it he’ll get benched. Otherwise hand over a list of teams he’d be willing to get traded to.

A lot of people don’t get that when it comes to the leafs, just because it’s a player’s favourite team doesn’t mean he’ll want to be playing there due to his style.

What gets me, is the automatic assumption it's hating on Marner.
I couldn't care less about him personally. It's just the fact his contract is due, he's looking for a raise he didn't really earn, and his agent has a history of screwing teams over for his client (ie. he's good at his job)
From a fan's perspective, I don't care what 34 and 88 make anymore, because they're locked in, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
It boils down to this:
Say Marner had played for another team last year, and was a UFA this year. Even knowing he wants to play here, and even if he was willing to 'leave money on the table', and sign for 12.5M, I wouldn't sign him. He simply plays a position, that is not as important as other positions the team needs to fill, if it has any hope of ever winning.
That's it. Regardless even of how he's been in the playoffs. He's simply a luxury you can't afford, when your #1 D-man, is not as good as most teams #2, and your #2 would be #4 at best on any other playoff team.
- oldstyle

What if I got drunk, ordered him online with my credit card, and then hid the contract from my wife?