No it isn't. Notice how most of them disappear. You're welcome.
- Tojo.

Hope you not talking about me. Lets see Tom Kuhnhackl, Eric Fehr ,Ben Lovejoy were also part of the 2016 high talent high speed team . My problem with RW and others that play that bs high talent only wins story is that to them talent means offense. If you are a player that fills a role and plays a defensive hard hitting game you are put in the little talent group . RW has been playing that progressive new NHL CRAP for a while. His view is always one sided when it comes to any player that is not a fancy offensive player . Same with his opinion of coaches and GM's. Always talking bs about the new style taking over. Don't see it my friend. Tocchett, Berube, Torts. That terrible GM in Vancouver seems to be doing ok too. Think everyone can agree that teams can use players that RW labels boring role players. That fancy offense first hockey does not win in the playoffs ,period.

Hope you not talking about me. Lets see Tom Kuhnhackl, Eric Fehr ,Ben Lovejoy were also part of the 2016 high talent high speed team . My problem with RW and others that play that bs high talent only wins story is that to them talent means offense. If you are a player that fills a role and plays a defensive hard hitting game you are put in the little talent group . RW has been playing that progressive new NHL CRAP for a while. His view is always one sided when it comes to any player that is not a fancy offensive player . Same with his opinion of coaches and GM's. Always talking bs about the new style taking over. Don't see it my friend. Tocchett, Berube, Torts. That terrible GM in Vancouver seems to be doing ok too. Think everyone can agree that teams can use players that RW labels boring role players. That fancy offense first hockey does not win in the playoffs ,period.
- johnnypie

It's like you don't actually watch hockey lol

It's like you don't actually watch hockey lol
- j.boyd919

Please enlighten me. Offense first style wins ?

Please enlighten me. Offense first style wins ?
- johnnypie

These guys believe every nhl team needs a line of 50 goal guys, 30 goal guys and 2 lines of 20 goal guys. They constantly complained about replacing Tom Kuhnhackl with a guy that could score and extra 3 goals a season. The truth lies somewhere between both arguments. The Pens as an organization are only interested in developing 1 style of player.

These guys believe every nhl team needs a line of 50 goal guys, 30 goal guys and 2 lines of 20 goal guys. They constantly complained about replacing Tom Kuhnhackl with a guy that could score and extra 3 goals a season. The truth lies somewhere between both arguments. The Pens as an organization are only interested in developing 1 style of player.
- Grinder47

You’re entitled to your opinion but to deny the obvious, come on. You can’t win with 4 lines of offense first SPEED players ( no grit) backed up by a quick offensive defense. Funny but almost every person put down by RW as not even belonging in the NHL seems to still be around years later. Must be he is the only knowledgeable hockey person.

Please enlighten me. Offense first style wins ?
- johnnypie

Lemme know where recent cup winners were in terms of GF during the regular season.

Lemme know where recent cup winners were in terms of GF during the regular season.
- j.boyd919

Come on now really, we're talking about roster construction not stats,. There are plenty of reg season GF leaders that won nothing. Colorado this year. Toronto, Edmonton etc all led league in scoring. You saying that Tampa , Washington ,Vegas, St Louis were offense first teams that didn't have grit and size in their lineup. Fancy quick offence first team ? Just wondering how about GA, did the cup winners do well with that stat ?

Come on now really, we're talking about roster construction not stats,. There are plenty of reg season GF leaders that won nothing. Colorado this year. Toronto, Edmonton etc all led league in scoring. You saying that Tampa , Washington ,Vegas, St Louis were offense first teams that didn't have grit and size in their lineup. Fancy quick offence first team ? Just wondering how about GA, did the cup winners do well with that stat ?
- johnnypie

Washington, Tampa, Vegas, Colorado, Pittsburgh were all highly skilled offense first roster construction. It's like you don't even watch hockey lol

Washington, Tampa, Vegas, Colorado, Pittsburgh were all highly skilled offense first roster construction. It's like you don't even watch hockey lol
- j.boyd919

Guess that's your cool signature line. Been watching seen the 60's and of course every cup winner has highly skilled offensive players, YOU AND YOUR BOY RW try to make out like the whole roster is made up of speed ,so called skilled players. in your little world you mock players that are not analytic friendly or are tough skilled types. All stats . Until the stats don't go your way. Never the eye test, never credit for actually impact.

Guess that's your cool signature line. Been watching seen the 60's and of course every cup winner has highly skilled offensive players, YOU AND YOUR BOY RW try to make out like the whole roster is made up of speed ,so called skilled players. in your little world you mock players that are not analytic friendly or are tough skilled types. All stats . Until the stats don't go your way. Never the eye test, never credit for actually impact.
- johnnypie

Your eye test is dogpoop. Kind of like your critical thinking abilities.

Washington, Tampa, Vegas, Colorado, Pittsburgh were all highly skilled offense first roster construction. It's like you don't even watch hockey lol
- j.boyd919

Lame argument. All of those teams with the exception of Pittsburgh, had guys in the lineup specifically for things other than offense. Like I said you guys female doged about the 4th line wings just as much in 2016 as you will next year. Every roster ever is constructed offense first. No team signs there bottom six right away then fills in the top six as it goes. You’re not wrong your just not being very good at your argument.

Your eye test is dogpoop. Kind of like your critical thinking abilities.
- Feds91Stammer

Remember when you guys all lived and died by Corsi? Until someone you never met told you not too.

Remember when you guys all lived and died by Corsi? Until someone you never met told you not too.
- Grinder47

Corsi was and still is a valuable analytical measurement. Just because certain bloggers used that as an end all be all doesn’t mean it’s invaluable.

Lame argument. All of those teams with the exception of Pittsburgh, had guys in the lineup specifically for things other than offense. Like I said you guys female doged about the 4th line wings just as much in 2016 as you will next year. Every roster ever is constructed offense first. No team signs there bottom six right away then fills in the top six as it goes. You’re not wrong your just not being very good at your argument.
- Grinder47

Those guys signed to do things other than offense would miss the playoffs if their offense “first” players weren’t good enough. Everybody knows there are role players but they also can’t suck so much they sink the entire team.

Guess that's your cool signature line. Been watching seen the 60's and of course every cup winner has highly skilled offensive players, YOU AND YOUR BOY RW try to make out like the whole roster is made up of speed ,so called skilled players. in your little world you mock players that are not analytic friendly or are tough skilled types. All stats . Until the stats don't go your way. Never the eye test, never credit for actually impact.
- johnnypie

You need glasses.

Those guys signed to do things other than offense would miss the playoffs if their offense “first” players weren’t good enough. Everybody knows there are role players but they also can’t suck so much they sink the entire team.
- Feds91Stammer

I guess then you need to strike some sort of balance.

Those guys signed to do things other than offense would miss the playoffs if their offense “first” players weren’t good enough. Everybody knows there are role players but they also can’t suck so much they sink the entire team.
- Feds91Stammer

Haha, another professor. My critical thinking ability. Are you saying you would miss the playoffs if your best players didn’t play well. Wow . The point genius is not to make a team up of all players that are offense first. That is what RW and friends are calling for. Role players tough gritty types are needed for success

Haha, another professor. My critical thinking ability. Are you saying you would miss the playoffs if your best players didn’t play well. Wow . The point genius is not to make a team up of all players that are offense first. That is what RW and friends are calling for. Role players tough gritty types are needed for success
- johnnypie

Yes your critical thinking ability is poor. Just because a poopty player gets typecasted into a role doesn’t mean they are actually effective at that role. Abdelkader was referenced in this thread and he flat out sucked.

Yes your critical thinking ability is poor. Just because a poopty player gets typecasted into a role doesn’t mean they are actually effective at that role. Abdelkader was referenced in this thread and he flat out sucked.
- Feds91Stammer

Don’t even know what that is supposed to mean.
A poopty player is a poopty player the disagreement here is because every tough defensive player is automatically poopty and not good enough for RW and friends team. While your analytically good offensive players are automatic keepers. No EYE TEST.

So.... More blood clots in a young athlete. Hmmm. So strange. Wonder why that keeps happening?

Don’t even know what that is supposed to mean.
A poopty player is a poopty player the disagreement here is because every tough defensive player is automatically poopty and not good enough for RW and friends team. While your analytically good offensive players are automatic keepers. No EYE TEST.
- johnnypie

Let’s hear a list of players that get poop on here that are actually useful. Eye test is a strawman argument. You have no idea how much hockey anyone does or doesn’t watch.

So.... More blood clots in a young athlete. Hmmm. So strange. Wonder why that keeps happening?
- madmike71

I’m very much anti jab but as a pens fan you would obviously know Dupuis had a similar issue. That Stamkos guy too. This isn’t new stuff there bud.

Hope you not talking about me. Lets see Tom Kuhnhackl, Eric Fehr ,Ben Lovejoy were also part of the 2016 high talent high speed team . My problem with RW and others that play that bs high talent only wins story is that to them talent means offense. If you are a player that fills a role and plays a defensive hard hitting game you are put in the little talent group . RW has been playing that progressive new NHL CRAP for a while. His view is always one sided when it comes to any player that is not a fancy offensive player . Same with his opinion of coaches and GM's. Always talking bs about the new style taking over. Don't see it my friend. Tocchett, Berube, Torts. That terrible GM in Vancouver seems to be doing ok too. Think everyone can agree that teams can use players that RW labels boring role players. That fancy offense first hockey does not win in the playoffs ,period.
- johnnypie

I see this is differently from your first post I responded to. The difference is skill throughout the line up v skill at every position. I personally at least think good role player types do exist and I value them but as Feds puts it here:

Yes your critical thinking ability is poor. Just because a poopty player gets typecasted into a role doesn’t mean they are actually effective at that role. Abdelkader was referenced in this thread and he flat out sucked.
- Feds91Stammer

A lot of guys get that label that I don't think are actually good. Guys like Blueger and ZAR when they were with us I liked and thought they helped us win games even if they didn't score a lot. Those are the types I'd like on our fourth line, not what we used last year. I would put Fehr in that category too. He actually had a decent amount of skill though by the time we got him injuries might have slowed him.

But there aren't enough of those guys or the pure skill guys to actually go around so most teams, even good teams, have a couple guys at the end of the roster labeled as role players who aren't actually that good.

I think the point remains though is that 2016 Pens team referenced was skilled at most every position and had skill spread throughout the line-up. Even their grit guys were players like Dumoulin, Hornqvist, Bonino, Hagelin, Cullen who also had some skill. Kuhnhackl and Lovejoy (Lovejoy was serviceable) mostly played due to injuries.

The change I'd make for an international tournament with USA's pool of players though is you don't get the normal top fourth liners like someone from the Islanders. You get a guy like Bryan Rust to be one of your fourth line PKers.

Let’s hear a list of players that get poop on here that are actually useful. Eye test is a strawman argument. You have no idea how much hockey anyone does or doesn’t watch.
- Feds91Stammer

Sam Lafferty, comes to mind.