Did they score more goals?
- Jeremy Laura

The Captain said at the end of last season that we needed to score more. We did that, and much more. It came at the sacrifice of solid defense. Now he's focusing on a more robust D. The offensive out-put was really impressive, but we did see some flashes of brilliance defensively, it just wasn't sustained. This off-season's going to be interesting, for sure. Losing Kane's 8 GWG is going to hurt as will his ability to control the game. Heck, no one said we'd push to the LAST 3min of the season to make the SCPO. LAST. 3. MINUTES!! Yeah, there remain some stinky contracts, but I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'm concerned about coaching, for sure. But.....still a good team!!

Drafting's a crap-shoot. Most earlier 1st-rounders can be counted on to make it. Heck, anything can happen to take a kid out....or he could hit a stride and be a beast. No one knows. Re-drafting is 100% successful. Add in time to develop, delays because of injury or pandemics (who the heck would've ever thought something like THAT needs to be considered?!?!?!?) Yeah, Cholo was a bad move. But people were sky-screaming when Mo's name was called. I can't call it on the draft, no one can. We've been ok, but not horrible.
- mcmastermike1968

So why is it that Jim Neal finds gems almost every year outside of round 1, while we still have excuses like "it's a crap shoot"?

I think there definitely needs to be more focus on how $$ are spent in UFA. Copp, Chiarot, and Holl are bad contracts for sure. I'm sooooo not a fan of Holl. Copp's over-paid as a defensive F. Chiarot was over-paid no matter how you look at it.

That being said, I have to wonder why those deals were signed. Was there a need for gap-fillers until tge kids start hitting? What were the conversations that took place that we'll not know? I mean, was the $$ so high in oder to attract a more recognized name to help fill seats? Copp cashed in on a decent season, but his D-game's gotten better....but not $5m+/year worthy. Walman's been a gem as has Maatta. I don't mind either one of them at all.

Yeah, we're in a bit of a cash-crunch. Some of these deals expire as replacement kids *should* be hitting the NHL, so while they stink, it's not as bad as I originally thought. Listen, I'm dying to get back to the SCPO, but watching the games thus far.....kinda glad we didn't make it. Granted, we'd have put on a better show than the Caps....by far. I've got to remind myself that we're charting a course for long-term success and some of the moves may be unsavoury, but I try to keep the long-term goal in mind.
- mcmastermike1968

the root of it is the poor drafting that this team continue to has. i was hopeful that would end under kenny but it hasnt. Ill shutup about the drafting when Yzerman starts finding players past the first round.

So, the product of them not drafting well is having to overpay guys in FA. For example Center- they didnt have anyone that theyve drafted so what do they go and do. Sign Copp and Sign Compher. Domino effect ensues as they overpay for those guys (and others) and they arent even in contention and they are already in a cap crunch..

So why is it that Jim Neal finds gems almost every year outside of round 1, while we still have excuses like "it's a crap shoot"?
- StargateSG1

its a excuse that the Yzerman apologists give. Bottom line is yzerman has a bad record outside the first round as of now. The only contributors he has drafted so far have been Seider,Raymond, and Edvinsson. All taken in the first round.

its a excuse that the Yzerman apologists give. Bottom line is yzerman has a bad record outside the first round as of now. The only contributors he has drafted so far have been Seider,Raymond, and Edvinsson. All taken in the first round.
- wingz4life

This is what I've been saying for years. Were awful at drafting. Have been for a long, long time. Yzerman did immediately fire some of Kenny's friends who were failures at scouting. But more must be done. Draper has been a common denominator through both eras. I'd fire him as a start. Would also add that during these years we've numerous extra 2nd and 3rd round picks. We did well at accumulating picks, but even with that extra draft capital it's a total graveyard of wasted picks.

So why is it that Jim Neal finds gems almost every year outside of round 1, while we still have excuses like "it's a crap shoot"?
- StargateSG1

Ok, fair point. So, what's your comparable period? Nill's been a GM since '13, Yzerman since '19.....Nill took a good chunk of a really good scouting team with him, Holland didn't do much to replace what left, Yzerman relies a bit too much on his playing buddies.

That being said, I'm not an apologist, just don't think that we're as bad off as some think. Meh, I'm a bit of an optomist. Now, do I think we need some managerial changes? Yup. Scouting team changes? Yup. But I'm not a "burn it all down" advocate, either. There are some head-scratching moves, no doubt. If you look back, I've been vocally against Copp, Chiarot, Holl. Compher's been a decent signing, but too rich for my blood. Have to wonder why some of the moves were made.... 'Course, GR was a bit of a mess when The Captain took over as well, then Blash was allowed to remain as the HC, GR was allowed to wallow......

There've been issues no doubt. But I'm not the guy who's gonna advocate burning it down again. However, I will agree that there need to be some wide-ranging moves to improve coaching, analysis, and scouting. I just don't think it's all that bad. I do appreciate your point if view, and some of your concerns.

EDIT: As I look through these back n firths, my mind is taken to debates had about what player to select dyring pre-draft bligs. Saw a TON of folks say "best available" vs picking for known/prohected needs in the system. I saw a few where someone stated the need to target a specific positional need only to be inundated with "ya gotta go with the beast available"..... I'd have to go back to see who said exactly what, but what were your takes during those discussions? Not being a jerk, I'm just curious. I know I posited for a positional pick, but then saw some logic in best availabe..... I'm pretty solid on positional drafting.....just makes sense, as long asscout sare looking for the same thing vs drafting their son (that shows support for your point, and was a completely wasted pick for sure...).

This is what I've been saying for years. Were awful at drafting. Have been for a long, long time. Yzerman did immediately fire some of Kenny's friends who were failures at scouting. But more must be done. Draper has been a common denominator through both eras. I'd fire him as a start. Would also add that during these years we've numerous extra 2nd and 3rd round picks. We did well at accumulating picks, but even with that extra draft capital it's a total graveyard of wasted picks.
- HockeyBuzzed

You & I have had some disagreements, of that there's no doubt. But I've always given you credit where I felt due.... Wholly agree that Draper may well need to mive on. There've been misses with the amount of picks. In 5 years of drafting, we shouldn't have to sign extravagent contracts like Holl. I've stated in several draft previews that we needed to snag a good RD, or C.....finally saw some of those picks made, and starting to see some of them poke the belly-button of the NHL. Not sure it's a grave-yard, but surely could've been more fruit from the tree.

its a excuse that the Yzerman apologists give. Bottom line is yzerman has a bad record outside the first round as of now. The only contributors he has drafted so far have been Seider,Raymond, and Edvinsson. All taken in the first round.
- wingz4life

2 things. One, does the team a player goes to have anything to do with their development, i.e. one that is established and ready to compete. 2, Kucherov. He had Stamkos waiting for him in TB and has certainly drafted well outside of round one. It’s not “being an apologist”. It’s looking at where the team is, asking if there is year over year improvement. Nill is adding to a team, Yzerman is building a team. I believe there is a difference. There’s also time for development. Seider’s rookie year was cut short, then played overseas because of league uncertainty. Collecting accolades as he went. Raymond took a step forward. Cossa has taken a step forward. Buium and Mazur have taken steps forward. We disagree, for sure, and I expect most prospects to need 3-5 years of development. If there wasn’t year over year improvement, that would be something else. Last year they wanted more goals and got them. This year, it’s going to be about keeping more pucks out of the net and that’s already been insinuated.

This is what I've been saying for years. Were awful at drafting. Have been for a long, long time. Yzerman did immediately fire some of Kenny's friends who were failures at scouting. But more must be done. Draper has been a common denominator through both eras. I'd fire him as a start. Would also add that during these years we've numerous extra 2nd and 3rd round picks. We did well at accumulating picks, but even with that extra draft capital it's a total graveyard of wasted picks.
- HockeyBuzzed

For Draper’s flaws, he was the scout who pushed for Raymond and Bertuzzi.