Watching him yesterday (admittedly, my viewing sample is very small, so for what it is worth): I saw a guy utterly without confidence or instincts on defensive end.

He clearly has a lot of talent. It will require patience and nurture. Lot of development. Who is going to coach him into that level in a place that very rarely produces top defencemen esp with his skill set?
- PT21

The one area where the Flyers coaching staff is good at is coaching defenseman.

messed up not signing him. Then he should have waited until the season was over to talk to him. see if cooler heads prevail.

If not then trade hi at the drfat. there was no rush. Flyers wanted the playoffs and saw the chance to add to the nhl roster so they made a deal.
- hello it's me 2050

Totally agree. The playoff push very well could’ve been a factor. Add that to their arrogance and bravado. If so it’s even more stupid and incompetent

Except the little fact he DIDNT WANT TO PLAY ELSEWHERE. That shoots that theory to hell. HE WANTED TO BE SIGNED AND OLAY IN PHILLY THIS WHOLE SEASON to start his elc surely.

So when told to play for 6 or 7 months at bc and then sign all of a sudden he doesn’t want to play in Philly. Nope. If that was the case he never would’ve wanted to sign to begin with. That just makes no sense.

He got pissed he didn’t get his way. Totally immature but does happen. He would’ve gotten over it real quick if db simply said we aren’t trading you and if you want to go down this path we will let you play out 4 years of college. And put the ball in his court.

And no one would’ve blamed db at all.


Please explain cg wanting to play elsewhere but also pissed at philly not signing him to elc that HE wanted in March? Make that make sense
- Stayin alive

Every single thing I have read suggested the ELC thing was the straw that broke the camel's back, not a single, decisive element. If you read Elliot Friedman's reporting, and indeed CG's own words, there was a multiplicity of factors.

My take: he was souring on the Flyers. DB failed to read the room. The ELC denial had more weight than the Flyers thought it would. When it was apparent it did, they panicked and tried a whole lot of nonsense, including trying to bypass his professional representation (that was willing and did meet with Flyers mgmt in Europe) and sending old stalwarts to meet him personally.

It probably cemented his view that this was not a competently run franchise and he stuck to his guns and bolted.

What part of March last year don't you understand? That was after his first college season ended, when he was 19.
- Feanor

My bad. I thought the statement was coming out of draft.

Regardless the main point is still the same. He wasn’t ready for nhl mentally which is proven by his actions.

Even at that the team has the rights under cba to not sign player to elc for x amount of time. Cg was pissed. He probably was told by fletch he’d be signed. Oh well. Tough. Deal with it kid. Be a Richard or man up. He chose to be a Richard.

And Philly acted stupid in response. Philly lost out more in the end. And that’s on them. They should know better.


But let’s not make excuses for Philly and say they were forced by cg immature actions. They weren’t.

Every single thing I have read suggested the ELC thing was the straw that broke the camel's back, not a single, decisive element. If you read Elliot Friedman's reporting, and indeed CG's own words, there was a multiplicity of factors.

My take: he was souring on the Flyers. DB failed to read the room. The ELC denial had more weight than the Flyers thought it would. When it was apparent it did, they panicked and tried a whole lot of nonsense, including trying to bypass his professional representation (that was willing and did meet with Flyers mgmt in Europe) and sending old stalwarts to meet him personally.

It probably cemented his view that this was not a competently run franchise and he stuck to his guns and bolted.
- PT21

You continue to get the facts wrong. After Gauthier surprisingly informed the Flyers that he was not not going to sign him. Both him and his representatives refused to meet or talk with the Flyers. The Flyers had every right to try and talk directly to Gauthier when he was ghosting them.

Both Hakstol and Vigneault coached the Flyers to significantly better seasons than this season. I've never seen a fan base overrate a season where the team was 6 games below .500 more. Where as was posted previously, the team was ranked 27th in the league in goals. Ranked 19th defensively and the worst PP in the league 3 seasons running. This team is below mediocre.
- MJL

Hakstol and AV had a LOT more talented players on those teams. This year's team was full of rookies and past their prime Vets and other vets coming back after major surgeries, so that's not a fair comparison. I'm not a big Torts fan, but he had to make lemonade out lemons. Hopefully the next Flyers coach will have some better talent to work with?

Every single thing I have read suggested the ELC thing was the straw that broke the camel's back, not a single, decisive element. If you read Elliot Friedman's reporting, and indeed CG's own words, there was a multiplicity of factors.

My take: he was souring on the Flyers. DB failed to read the room. The ELC denial had more weight than the Flyers thought it would. When it was apparent it did, they panicked and tried a whole lot of nonsense, including trying to bypass his professional representation (that was willing and did meet with Flyers mgmt in Europe) and sending old stalwarts to meet him personally.

It probably cemented his view that this was not a competently run franchise and he stuck to his guns and bolted.
- PT21

Again even if all that is true…. Make sense of the last sentence? “Stuck to his guns and bolted”

He can’t. That’s the facts. He can’t just bolt. He had a choice. Play 4 years of college and then become free agent. That’s his only card he can play.


And there again ZERO chance his agent or himself is going to risk that. No way he’s risking millions of dollars in earnings and years lost making millions and risking injury and getting nothing to “stick to his guns”. Because he can’t just bolt.

Rizzo signed
- landros 2

LOL

shambles

You continue to get the facts wrong. After Gauthier surprisingly informed the Flyers that he was not not going to sign him. Both him and his representatives refused to meet or talk with the Flyers. The Flyers had every right to try and talk directly to Gauthier when he was ghosting them.
- MJL

To be fair I don’t think it was his representatives. I think logically they just kept telling Philly you can try but he doesn’t want to meet with you.


The play for Philly after they tried in person and cg shunned them was to simply pick up the phone and call his agent and say enjoy the 4 years in college we aren’t trading your rights.

Even if I agree with what you say (and elsewhere in the hockey world =/ what one guy says on radio), those teams are at a completely different stage of their talent curve. Esepcially the ones not called Det.

Wtf is the point of loading a team full of grinders and showing your commitment to rebuilding by overplaying them and doing everything you can to stunt the growth of your skill platers by not letting them go through their teething issues?
- PT21

Sure they have some grinders. Guys like Foerster, York, and Tippet how ever are not…not even close. What they are is young players that all took steps. Young players that are capable of forming part of a core. They also had guys like , Ersson and Brink whom all the so called experts on here had already decided they weren’t part of the future. Weren’t good enough to play in the NHL. They both showed they might be.
Guys like Drysdale came in and I thought although playing to mixed results gave us some glimpses of being a future NHL d man that you can have in a top pairing.
I also think they gave Frost a lot of rope, especially after Xmas. He even alluded to it a few minutes ago…he’s has to find ways to be more consistent.
Late in the year I actually liked what we saw from Attard and Ginning. Isn’t that working through some teething issues?

Would I have liked some of the skilled guys I’ve listed to play more meaningful minutes? Maybe…and for this team to get better those are the guys that will have to do it. Those guys aren’t exactly forming a team full of grinders.

You continue to get the facts wrong. After Gauthier surprisingly informed the Flyers that he was not not going to sign him. Both him and his representatives refused to meet or talk with the Flyers. The Flyers had every right to try and talk directly to Gauthier when he was ghosting them.
- MJL

talk about facts, your wrong cliff.

To be fair I don’t think it was his representatives. I think logically they just kept telling Philly you can try but he doesn’t want to meet with you.


The play for Philly after they tried in person and cg shunned them was to simply pick up the phone and call his agent and say enjoy the 4 years in college we aren’t trading your rights.
- Stayin alive

Logically yes. But this is the Philadelphia Flyers. They live the "cut off your nose to spite your face" mentality that says, if you don't want us, we don't want you. We are the Flyers, we are tougher than you. We work hard (as if other teams don't) and we have a certain standard. Its typical Philly.

To be fair I don’t think it was his representatives. I think logically they just kept telling Philly you can try but he doesn’t want to meet with you.


The play for Philly after they tried in person and cg shunned them was to simply pick up the phone and call his agent and say enjoy the 4 years in college we aren’t trading your rights.
- Stayin alive

CG shunned them, not Kurt Overhardt.

LeBrun: Yes, that was the unanswered question after a bombshell of a trade. I reached out to Cutter Gauthier's agent, Kurt Overhardt, earlier on Tuesday and I asked him that very question and here's what he was ready to say.

He said, quote:

"It's a private issue between the player and his family. We definitely had conversations with Philadelphia, very respectable conversations with Philadelphia about it. We've chosen just to take the high road and leave all that information private."


KO has also said he met with Flyers mgmt in Sweden.

Every single thing I have read suggested the ELC thing was the straw that broke the camel's back, not a single, decisive element. If you read Elliot Friedman's reporting, and indeed CG's own words, there was a multiplicity of factors.

My take: he was souring on the Flyers. DB failed to read the room. The ELC denial had more weight than the Flyers thought it would. When it was apparent it did, they panicked and tried a whole lot of nonsense, including trying to bypass his professional representation (that was willing and did meet with Flyers mgmt in Europe) and sending old stalwarts to meet him personally.

It probably cemented his view that this was not a competently run franchise and he stuck to his guns and bolted.
- PT21

You allude to a souring on the Flyers ? Then after not being offered a contract to finish out last year decided he no longer wanted to be a Flyer. The straw the broke the camels back? Yet no one, including quitter, has given a reason for such a souring before the contract issue? including Freidman. Your story doesn’t add up.

This isn’t college football. NIL money lol very hard to come by and not any sort of value for college hockey
- ClaudeFather

No poop it's not college football. Still helped Logan Cooley sign with Chipotle as a brand ambassador. Snuggerud is staying in college another year because he also got a deal. Do you think they made it worth his while to forgo signing an ELC with the Blues? Opportunities are clearly there for high end NHL prospects. Not nearly enough as other college sports, but college hockey was not all that popular of a route for young players until about five minutes ago.

Logically yes. But this is the Philadelphia Flyers. They live the "cut off your nose to spite your face" mentality that says, if you don't want us, we don't want you. We are the Flyers, we are tougher than you. We work hard (as if other teams don't) and we have a certain standard. Its typical Philly.
- MBFlyerfan

Well here is the problem that hopefully changes.

You allude to a souring on the Flyers ? Then after not being offered a contract to finish out last year decided he no longer wanted to be a Flyer. The straw the broke the camels back? Yet no one, including quitter, has given a reason for such a souring before the contract issue? including Freidman. Your story doesn’t add up.
- landros 2

We have gone through this ad nauseum have we not amigo?

But to recap, I have suggested that sometimes it is prudent to not provide a reason. If his reason is: I see the Flyers in the middle of "nowhere, doing nothing" (quoting an old Traffic song) but I don't want to say so because it will just add more fuel to fire and I want to move on - then it is prudent to not provide a reason.

talk about facts, your wrong cliff.
- hello it's me 2050

This exact issue was talked about incessantly just 3 months ago. "Cliff" was right there.

"“I really don’t know,” general manager Danny Briere told The Athletic. “I kept asking Kurt over and over two questions: Why can’t we meet with them so we can at least just present our case and tell him what we’re trying to do and how we are building this team and saw Cutter being a core part of it? And the other question is: OK, if you don’t want to play in Philadelphia, can we know the reason? We couldn’t get an answer on either one.”

But hey, keep forgetting, keep arguing. In a way, his circular trajectory mirrors the Flyers, except the latter is by design and makes business sense.

You allude to a souring on the Flyers ? Then after not being offered a contract to finish out last year decided he no longer wanted to be a Flyer. The straw the broke the camels back? Yet no one, including quitter, has given a reason for such a souring before the contract issue? including Freidman. Your story doesn’t add up.
- landros 2

The story doesn’t add up because if there were issues to begin with why would he want to be signed to his elc in march? Whatever “issues” he had certainly weren’t enough to make him not sign.

This is logically a case of an immature kid pissed he didn’t get his way and signed when he thought he either deserved it or was entitled to it.


Not professional and clear proof db was correct on not signing him at that moment

Again even if all that is true…. Make sense of the last sentence? “Stuck to his guns and bolted”

He can’t. That’s the facts. He can’t just bolt. He had a choice. Play 4 years of college and then become free agent. That’s his only card he can play.


And there again ZERO chance his agent or himself is going to risk that. No way he’s risking millions of dollars in earnings and years lost making millions and risking injury and getting nothing to “stick to his guns”. Because he can’t just bolt.
- Stayin alive

Bolted as in with the Flyers allowing it, if you like.

The same logic applies to every single professional hold out.

What happened with Jack Eichel? Ben Simmons? With TO?

agreed.

if memory serves Frank S reported the Blues offered a 1st (late 20s pick) and a 2nd for Laughts last year and they passed. If true that is just downright stupidity.
- Flyfly

Now how do you turn around and say this but in an earlier post you said I bet the organization was lying about getting a first? Which is it? They lied, or they were offered a first and Frank S and BIll mentioned they did get offers independently.

The story doesn’t add up because if there were issues to begin with why would he want to be signed to his elc in march?
- Stayin alive

B/c maybe the issues were very present but had not reached tippoing point status yet?

You continue to get the facts wrong. After Gauthier surprisingly informed the Flyers that he was not not going to sign him. Both him and his representatives refused to meet or talk with the Flyers. The Flyers had every right to try and talk directly to Gauthier when he was ghosting them.
- MJL

But they don’t have a right to talk to him. He had representation. That means all communications go through his agent. They’re dissing his agent by trying to circumvent going through the proper channel.

His agent is doing Cutter a disservice if he lets them walk over him.

CG shunned them, not Kurt Overhardt.

LeBrun: Yes, that was the unanswered question after a bombshell of a trade. I reached out to Cutter Gauthier's agent, Kurt Overhardt, earlier on Tuesday and I asked him that very question and here's what he was ready to say.

He said, quote:

"It's a private issue between the player and his family. We definitely had conversations with Philadelphia, very respectable conversations with Philadelphia about it. We've chosen just to take the high road and leave all that information private."


KO has also said he met with Flyers mgmt in Sweden.
- PT21

Ummmmm you said cg AND his representatives shunned them

This exact issue was talked about incessantly just 3 months ago. "Cliff" was right there.

"“I really don’t know,” general manager Danny Briere told The Athletic. “I kept asking Kurt over and over two questions: Why can’t we meet with them so we can at least just present our case and tell him what we’re trying to do and how we are building this team and saw Cutter being a core part of it? And the other question is: OK, if you don’t want to play in Philadelphia, can we know the reason? We couldn’t get an answer on either one.”

But hey, keep forgetting, keep arguing. In a way, his circular trajectory mirrors the Flyers, except the latter is by design and makes business sense.
- PT21

not forgetting schitt holmes. The agent said he did meet with them. Home and abroad.

so no cliff isnt correct.