Seattle has Sharks, come on Seattle
- wcorvette

maybe they will be able to trade to get another pick, but looks like this year and next we should have 3 picks in the top 40. should help in a few years

well said-

You would think most of this is a thought in the head for DB and KJ. Do you think DB has the notion and the backing to sit Torts down and demand some change in his approach? It is possible Torts learns from this?
- wcorvette

I think you have better odds of winning the powerball. You have a 65 year old man on a guaranteed contract with pretty much unfettered power on the fast track to the Flyers FO who got here by doing things his way and not listening to anyone else.

If you ask me who is going to be part of the Flyers front office in 3 years and give me a choice of Torts or Briere, I'd pick Torts.

So if someone is not convicted criminally of an offense but is found civilly liable for it, we should accept that they did it and judge them accordingly for the rest of their lives?
- Feanor

No ofc not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

But in this particular case, given how public the trial was....

appears Johnson and Staal in again, just WOW, this guy is so stubborn, it takes away from IQ dramatically.

Flyers aren't doing that tho. Nobody's freelancing or cheating. They're still getting in front of pucks and competing in the corners. They just aren't as sharp with their coverages and reads as they were earlier. They aren't executing with the same amount of precision. The quality of goaltending has gone from mediocre to dogpoop.

This is not what a hockey mutiny looks like.

And in hockey, 'quitting' == mutiny.
- Tomahawk

I saw some pretty sloppy coverage. And when they were down by a lot, I did not see much of a concerted fightback, from the same team that had done just so throughout. Very different in the last few mins of regulation versus Isles versus now. Margin was higher of course but ...

You seem to be suggesting that there are specific observable traits (on the ice) that can distinguish between quitting and fatigue. I find this a tad improbable, since many of the manifestations would be the same.

But I am happy to stand corrected/learn something. Can you provide me with some link/s to reputed sources which corroborate this?

appears Johnson and Staal in again, just WOW, this guy is so stubborn, it takes away from IQ dramatically.
- wcorvette

The last few games have proven that it does not matter who starts. After tonight's game, Ginning and attard should be returned to the Phantoms.

appears Johnson and Staal in again, just WOW, this guy is so stubborn, it takes away from IQ dramatically.
- wcorvette

Let me just say it is profitable betting on whoever plays the flyers to score first recently.

Flyers aren't doing that tho. Nobody's freelancing or cheating. They're still getting in front of pucks and competing in the corners. They just aren't as sharp with their coverages and reads as they were earlier. They aren't executing with the same amount of precision. The quality of goaltending has gone from mediocre to dogpoop.

This is not what a hockey mutiny looks like.

And in hockey, 'quitting' == mutiny.
- Tomahawk

I posted numerous times that the strength of the team, their defensive structure was missing. Turnovers and mistakes have increased. All symbiotic to aid in average goaltending getting worse. Mental mistakes all over the ice. Numerous players going to the same area in a breakdown in coverage. All signs not of a team that has quit but of a team that is clearly out of gas and spent. Mentally and physically.

He will get votes. 🗳 But i believe not close to Tocchet & Brunette
- THE EVIL WITHIN

Montgomery, Knoblauch and Laviolette also in the mix.

well said-

You would think most of this is a thought in the head for DB and KJ. Do you think DB has the notion and the backing to sit Torts down and demand some change in his approach? It is possible Torts learns from this?
- wcorvette

A guy who has been coaching as long as he has and has acted as he has forever. Isn't going to change now.

I saw some pretty sloppy coverage. And when they were down by a lot, I did not see much of a concerted fightback, from the same team that had done just so throughout. Very different in the last few mins of regulation versus Isles versus now. Margin was higher of course but ...

You seem to be suggesting that there are specific observable traits (on the ice) that can distinguish between quitting and fatigue. I find this a tad improbable, since many of the manifestations would be the same.

But I am happy to stand corrected/learn something. Can you provide me with some link/s to reputed sources which corroborate this?
- PT21

Can you supply anyone with any reputed sources that offer facts to support that the Flyers have quit?

Here are some facts from the last two games, from the 3rd period of those games

Columbus

Shot attempts 28-18 Flyers Scoring chances 8-3 Flyers HD scoring chances 3-2 Flyers

Montreal

Shot attempts 26-15 Flyers scoring chances 14-9 Flyers HD scoring chances 6-3 Flyers

Montgomery, Knoblauch and Laviolette also in the mix.
- MJL

Where did he coach before?

Where did he coach before?
- mickel25

Started as an assistant and then a head coach in the WHL. Head coach of the Erie Otters in the OHL. His first NHL job was as an assistant for the Flyers in 17/18 and 18/19. Then head coach of Hartford in the AHL. Coached a few games as the Rangers HC when Quinn was placed on Covid protocol and then finally head coach of Edmonton. They've complete turned around since he was hired.

Started as an assistant and then a head coach in the WHL. Head coach of the Erie Otters in the OHL. His first NHL job was as an assistant for the Flyers in 17/18 and 18/19. Then head coach of Hartford in the AHL. Coached a few games as the Rangers HC when Quinn was placed on Covid protocol and then finally head coach of Edmonton. They've complete turned around since he was hired.
- MJL

And the Flyers let him go and now he is successful? Color me shocked.

Mentally and physically.
- MJL

They've been horse whipped to an inch of their lives to go 110% all year. They've played way beyond their capabilities and limits.

Torts thought they had even more to give -- another level lol. Crazy.

Noah Hanifin getting 8-years $7.35 per from Vegas.

I saw some pretty sloppy coverage. And when they were down by a lot, I did not see much of a concerted fightback, from the same team that had done just so throughout. Very different in the last few mins of regulation versus Isles versus now. Margin was higher of course but ...

You seem to be suggesting that there are specific observable traits (on the ice) that can distinguish between quitting and fatigue. I find this a tad improbable, since many of the manifestations would be the same.

But I am happy to stand corrected/learn something. Can you provide me with some link/s to reputed sources which corroborate this?
- PT21

Easier to fight back when you're on your game. Flyers are clearly not right now.

This is what quitting looks like:



I didn't see anything that looked like that in the Flyers games recently.

Noah Hanifin getting 8-years $7.35 per from Vegas.
- mickel25

Can you imagine if the flyers decided nvm we are keeping him instead of facilitating money? Can a team even do that assuming there’s no “list” of teams a player would accept? You’d obviously make a ton of enemies in the league and possibly piss off the player but could it theoretically be done? That would be hilarious.

I saw some pretty sloppy coverage. And when they were down by a lot, I did not see much of a concerted fightback, from the same team that had done just so throughout. Very different in the last few mins of regulation versus Isles versus now. Margin was higher of course but ...

You seem to be suggesting that there are specific observable traits (on the ice) that can distinguish between quitting and fatigue. I find this a tad improbable, since many of the manifestations would be the same.

But I am happy to stand corrected/learn something. Can you provide me with some link/s to reputed sources which corroborate this?
- PT21

Easier to fight back when you're on your game. Flyers are clearly not right now.

This is what quitting looks like:



I didn't see anything that looked like that in the Flyers games recently.

And if there was, you can bet Torts would have been like this:

A guy who has been coaching as long as he has and has acted as he has forever. Isn't going to change now.
- MJL

Just look around the league. What coach in the league is even close to Torts in his antics. It might have worked 20 years ago. Coaches get heated and sometimes go off once in a while but there is rarely the same stuff hanging around like it does Torts.

Can you supply anyone with any reputed sources that offer facts to support that the Flyers have quit?

- MJL

Can you do the same to show torst was never a legit candidate for COY excluding this recent slide?

Just look around the league. What coach in the league is even close to Torts in his antics. It might have worked 20 years ago. Coaches get heated and sometimes go off once in a while but there is rarely the same stuff hanging around like it does Torts.
- J35Bacher

Which Torts do we get post game :

A) Dr. Jekyl
B) Mr. Hyde
C) an assistant

Bonus points if you know whether the PP is something he is willing to talk about.

Easier to fight back when you're on your game. Flyers are clearly not right now.

This is what quitting looks like:



I didn't see anything that looked like that in the Flyers games recently.
- Tomahawk

This is quite a famous clip, as I know you know. Usually used as a farcical example.

I don't think this is the way that all quitting happens though. It would generally be a loss of faith in the coach/es, stemming from personal issues (such as Couts disrespect), or because of unreasonable demands (the hectoring style), or because they feel staff are incompetent (probably not applicable here but happened with the Eagles coordinators last year) or they just dislike the guys and don't want to play for them and so on.

In general, a less than 100% buy in mentally. It would be the same as when the locker room is divided and the players are dispirited/preoccupied with something.

Anyway, this is getting pedantic. You know a lot more about this stuff than I do, so I will happily take your word for it, though I am personally unconvinced fatigue is the primary factor.

You know a lot more about this stuff than I do, so I will happily take your word for it....
- PT21

I don't really tho.

We're just giving our perspectives and opinions.

Who really knows what happens behind closed doors. Alls we can see is how they look on the ice and to me they aren't playing like a bunch of dudes who are defying their coach. Maybe the buy-in is only at 90% now because they've had the fire lit under them for so long that they can't feel the heat anymore, who knows... but it still doesn't look to me to be wholesale quit.

Happy to agree to disagree.

Noah Hanifin getting 8-years $7.35 per from Vegas.
- mickel25

seems like a solid deal. great cap hit.