cates and GH are legit NHL players not depth guys. Forest is better than 4th line.

Maybe Walker made Seeler look better than he really looked. As 3rd pair making 1.5 seeler is good value. His contract now is not good value.

They have so much work to do it was just another wasted year.
- hello it's me 2050

Was it just another wasted year though? I think some of the young guys that took steps gives me some hope. I like the first 70 games as far as compete. There were really only 2-3 games that they weren’t in. That’s vast improvement over the last few years.

Hopefully if the plunge continues a couple more games we are looking at a much better draft pick…maybe just maybe some of the teams ahead of the Flyers continue to shy away from the Russian kids….and the Flyers are able to get another intriguing piece…hey I can hope.

Was it just another wasted year though? I think some of the young guys that took steps gives me some hope. I like the first 70 games as far as compete. There were really only 2-3 games that they weren’t in. That’s vast improvement over the last few years.

Hopefully if the plunge continues a couple more games we are looking at a much better draft pick…maybe just maybe some of the teams ahead of the Flyers continue to shy away from the Russian kids….and the Flyers are able to get another intriguing piece…hey I can hope.
- landros 2

If they’re doing a proper tank. An asset like Tippett gets traded. Seeler I don’t care. No one should. Assets that can potentially get you 1st round picks and are up for signing need to be moved

If they’re doing a proper tank. An asset like Tippett gets traded. Seeler I don’t care. No one should. Assets that can potentially get you 1st round picks and are up for signing need to be moved
- Just5

i move farabee before tippett all day every day

hope Seattle wins the 2 they have in hand. IF they get real lucky, Devils and Sabres win out.

As is almost always the case it wasn't a single thing that brought about this ignominious end to an otherwise enjoyable season, but many. They are very limited in talent, but driven by a harsh taskmaster to succeed. Losing Walker hurt them, not because he was great, but because it signaled that management wasn't committed to winning. What are they gaining with a very late 1st anyway? Coots had the opposite effect Torts wanted. The goalie situation screwed with their heads. Listen, they were going nowhere in the playoffs anyway. The thing that will haunt us for a long time will be losing Gauthier by not offering him an ELC...Drysdale is not equal compensation

based on what? how do you draw the conclusion they know how to fix it?
- hello it's me 2050

Based on they have spent their whole lives in hockey. Especially briere with modern nhl. They know HOW to fix it. Whether they CAN is another question but they definitely know HOW

Because that path has the highest probability of success. That's the best chance you have of acquiring guys like Mac, Crosby, Makar, Hedman, etc.

We already lived thru the Hexy era when he was tasked with rebuilding while being ordered to stay competitive. Do we really need to go down that road again? Are memories really that short?

Yes, it's possible to find elite talent later in the draft... but the Flyers scouting staff no longer seems to have the ability to do that. It's been almost 20-years since they identified Claude.
- Tomahawk

Did they really identify him, though? If I remember correctly, they wanted Sanguinetti who was chosen one pick before Giroux, leaving the Flyers to pick the next player on their list.

there is no plan, it is a day by day operation.
- hello it's me 2050

Yes seems that way. Day to day plan to maximize profits. What can be done today to fool these idiot flyers fans to continue to fork over money

Based on they have spent their whole lives in hockey. Especially briere with modern nhl. They know HOW to fix it. Whether they CAN is another question but they definitely know HOW
- Stayin alive

is keeping Laughton and TK showing they know how to fix it?

If the team has quit Torts would say so. He wouldn't be able to help himself.

But he's still insisting that lack of effort/care are not the problem, even after tonight...
- Tomahawk

I don't want to get bogged down in a MJL style unending debate of the lowest denominator about this. I think they have quit, you disagree, neither of us can be certain, no point endlessly speculating.

I do feel however what you said above (bolded) reduces a fairly successful coach to a cartoonish caricature. He has openly said that he knows others say players tend to quit on him. If he himself goes out and says it, it will transform accusations/innuendo into a career defining admission of guilt.

If he says that, it forces the end of his coaching regimen, because an organization cannot risk bringing back a coach who admits his players have quit on him. If they do, they have to clean out everyone, and they will be force to accept pennies to the $ because the league would know they have no choice. And if they don't clean out the stable of players, they risk an epic meltdown of a season and fans saying - why the hell did they bring Torts back?

This is not candidness. This is legacy defining suicide. Torts has always cutivated an image of a 'no-nonsense' successful coach. Far from his behavior being compulsive, I think it is a fairly well controlled image. Players are not supposed to quit on the coach - it is part of a coach's job to ensure that doesn't happen.

For him to admit they have would mean there is truth to the past rumors as well, that this was a pattern with him, that therefore he is not such a good coach after all - everywhere he went, players quit on him.

So, with all due respect, I don't think him saying otherwise has any relevance.

But why does "rebuild" always have to mean completely through the draft? Why can't the Flyers draft and develop, while also signing some good depth players for fair money and have a competitive team on the ice that the developing players can be part of? Why does "rebuild" have to mean strip it down the to studs and completely start over?
- jd250

You can’t because that’s putting the horse before the cart. You need the top end talent first. Yes adding the parts you speak of is part of the rebuild. But it’s later. Doing what you suggest makes it take longer to get the top end talent further pushing the rebuild. And making it harder to obtain the top end talent.

Did they really identify him, though? If I remember correctly, they wanted Sanguinetti who was chosen one pick before Giroux, leaving the Flyers to pick the next player on their list.
- Stanley Cup

He still had to be the next player on their list.

Doubt many teams back in 2006 would have taken such a risk on a 5-10 150lb kid who no team in the OHL saw fit to draft.

Im not saying Walker is Brian Leech.. Im saying he help the team and took minutes. He helped PK.. Its a complete snowball effect that happened... I hated Torts last year, I think he is a Richard. but he is a good coach for the right team.. This season I admit, i like some of his tatics early in the season, but his poop wears thin..
- jjackels55

Walker is a good player, but he obviously priced himself out of the Flyers market. A team can overpay 1 or 2 guys and do fine, but the Flyers do it for virtually everyone. The only ones they do not are on ELCs because the salary is set for them. They over pay RR to be a 3D, Couturier to be a 4C, Seeler and ND just to play hockey, Farabee is not pulling his weight, they hand out $1MM lollipops to aging useless veterans at will, they have $13MM of dead cap space next year not counting Ellis. Their roster is a litany of mismanagement, bad projections and what seems to be an ignorance of the fact that a salary cap actually exists.

Was it just another wasted year though? I think some of the young guys that took steps gives me some hope. I like the first 70 games as far as compete. There were really only 2-3 games that they weren’t in. That’s vast improvement over the last few years.

Hopefully if the plunge continues a couple more games we are looking at a much better draft pick…maybe just maybe some of the teams ahead of the Flyers continue to shy away from the Russian kids….and the Flyers are able to get another intriguing piece…hey I can hope.
- landros 2

It was an absolute waste is a season. The young guys you speak of more data would’ve been had on them if played because players like laughts seeker tk cam out etc etc etc. if they move them like they should soon say at draft then next season you will see those players you spoke of get next season what they should’ve had THIS season. Even if they would’ve been on fence then after next year even more data to make decision on players you spoke of.

is keeping Laughton and TK showing they know how to fix it?
- hello it's me 2050

It shows there is no rebuild. That they are in it for money. Rebranding retooling call it what you will. Status quo. That comes from the very top. That isn’t debateable. If you are rebuilding truly you are going to suffer a little at the gate and bottom line some for a period of time.

What’s truly sad is the flyers are essentially a line item in the big scheme of Comcast. That’s what’s truly frustrating. They don’t matter what so ever really. If they lose money for awhile no big deal. If they make big money a few years from now great.

What they are doing now is simply making just a little money that really doesn’t matter. But flyers get to go to Comcast and say look we made you money. Please let us keep our jobs. The flyers are a nothing burger

Cutter is a Hobey Baker finalist.

If they’re doing a proper tank. An asset like Tippett gets traded. Seeler I don’t care. No one should. Assets that can potentially get you 1st round picks and are up for signing need to be moved
- Just5

I don’t totally agree with tip as asset that NEEDS to be traded. He’s still young and fits a timeline. Mm is the baseline for timeline. Keeping tip and younger players is fine. They may need to be moved in future tho. Sort of like how tk is now approaching 30 and looking for term and bag.


That’s when you need to move out assets to further make cup contending team. Hopefully. Bee fits this. York. Frost brink etc etc all fit this

I don't know why we need need human villains for our morass. Torts/Old Guard/Fletcher/Hextall/fans etc. etc. Couldn't the system be set up in a flawed way and be the culprit?

Look at some of the factors that determine the behavior of Comcast.

1 Like almost all NHL franchises, heavily dependent on tix revenue. Full scale rebuild would be costly for sure with very uncertain rewards.

2. Unlike all NHL franchises, arena situated in an "entertainment center" (Xfinity Live). Low tix sales => low vendor sales => lower rent. Further loss of revenue.

3. Most important tenant (Sixers) threatening to leave in 7 years time. The most severe crisis in the history of Comcast Spectacor. Tenant been offered part ownership stake (according to some reports as high as 40%). This stake is worth less if leases are rentable for less, which means tenant even less likely to accept.

4. Flyers provide tv programming for 41 games a year + preseason + numerous shows/discussions. Advertising drop if interest wanes, less lead in to other programs.

5. Had almost identical situation with Sixers. Team was stuck in a mediocre path, Comcast refused to do a full scale tear it down style rebuild (which finally happened after Josh Harris bought the team). So, we have precedence about how Comcast operates re: sports teams it owns.

All in all, strong economic incentives to not do full scale rebuild, many multiples of those for other franchises.

In this regard, I think guys like Clarke, Tortorella, die hard fans etc play the role of useful idiots. Ownership lets them have their say because what they espouse is exactly what is best for economic interests.

He still had to be the next player on their list.

Doubt many teams back in 2006 would have taken such a risk on a 5-10 150lb kid who no team in the OHL saw fit to draft.
- Tomahawk

Fair point. I do remember how much Clarke wanted the other guy, but you're right; there still had to be a "next".

What would have changed that in your mind?
- jd250

Trading Seeler not resigning.

Play Attard and Ginning and not trading for Johnson (who has been utterly irrelevant)

We'll have no way of knowing if they tried to move others or not. The fact that their goal was to push for the playoffs was all I needed to hear. They prioritized getting thumped in the 1st round over building a future.

But why does "rebuild" always have to mean completely through the draft? Why can't the Flyers draft and develop, while also signing some good depth players for fair money and have a competitive team on the ice that the developing players can be part of? Why does "rebuild" have to mean strip it down the to studs and completely start over?
- jd250

Because it's an unnecessary evil. There's no need to add vets. They have that. Age doesn't mean vet. Years in the league does. No reason to add Staal. Even Hathaway wasn't called for despite him being relatively decent.

But why does "rebuild" always have to mean completely through the draft? Why can't the Flyers draft and develop, while also signing some good depth players for fair money and have a competitive team on the ice that the developing players can be part of? Why does "rebuild" have to mean strip it down the to studs and completely start over?
- jd250

torts himself said this team needed to be stripped down to its foundation last year.

You claim they need high end talent - how are they going to get high end talent picking 12-18 every year?

Was it just another wasted year though? I think some of the young guys that took steps gives me some hope. I like the first 70 games as far as compete. There were really only 2-3 games that they weren’t in. That’s vast improvement over the last few years.

Hopefully if the plunge continues a couple more games we are looking at a much better draft pick…maybe just maybe some of the teams ahead of the Flyers continue to shy away from the Russian kids….and the Flyers are able to get another intriguing piece…hey I can hope.
- landros 2

Absolutely it was.

They wanted to rebuild. They didn't.

Then it became a push for the playoffs. They failed.

Absolutely wasted season.

They are no further ahead this year at building a winner than they were when last season ended.

Fair point. I do remember how much Clarke wanted the other guy, but you're right; there still had to be a "next".
- Stanley Cup

Yeah, they desperately needed a puck-moving dman at the time. They almost (frank)ed up big time by going positional need.

Some will say they did it again taking Bonk over Perreault. Time will tell.

It shows there is no rebuild. That they are in it for money. Rebranding retooling call it what you will. Status quo. That comes from the very top. That isn’t debateable. If you are rebuilding truly you are going to suffer a little at the gate and bottom line some for a period of time.

What’s truly sad is the flyers are essentially a line item in the big scheme of Comcast. That’s what’s truly frustrating. They don’t matter what so ever really. If they lose money for awhile no big deal. If they make big money a few years from now great.

What they are doing now is simply making just a little money that really doesn’t matter. But flyers get to go to Comcast and say look we made you money. Please let us keep our jobs. The flyers are a nothing burger
- Stayin alive

I’m not quite as pessimistic as you. I did see some things change that needed to. I did see some decent growth in some guys that they are going to need. Is it all sunshine and roses? Um no. Am I disappointed? Yes.. some what. I think a few playoff games would have been great for some of the younger guys, but now it’s more of a distasteful end to a season.