After Hexy got there everybody quit.

- MBFlyerfan

After Hexy got there everybody quit.

- MBFlyerfan

He locked the owners out of the employee break room.

Fluff or flash and flair. All the same to me. Just generic vague terms. I'm not trying to win an argument. I'm just trying to have a conversation. I enjoy that and you're one of the smarter and best posters on here to have that with. I just don't see how a player who is regarded as one of the top 5 players ever to play his position, is not a generational player.
- MJL

My point was that you have to be generational first but flash and flair are always one of the fruits of that. Maybe generational is kind of daunting to me and I’m reluctant to put people there. I’ve always seen Lidstrom as kind of transhuman, equal parts man and machine the way he played. Not flashy but almost always making the best move.Steady and optimal. Anyone that wants to have a lively spicy conversation with you has to bring their A game.

My point was that you have to be generational first but flash and flair are always one of the fruits of that. Maybe generational is kind of daunting to me and I’m reluctant to put people there. I’ve always seen Lidstrom as kind of transhuman, equal parts man and machine the way he played. Not flashy but almost always making the best move.Steady and optimal. Anyone that wants to have a lively spicy conversation with you has to bring their A game.






- Minnyhock

Can I add this to consider. Goal scorers and big point producers by nature just naturally have more flash and flair. It's the glory of the game. A defenseman will never be in consideration for the best player ever. Forward wise you have Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe etc. in the generational category. Judged on goal and point production. In the realm of the defenseman, it's Orr, Harvey, Lidstrom and Borque. They produce points but not at the astronomical level that a Gretzky or Lemiex did. You can't judge them by the same standard. When looking at Gretzky as generational player, you aren't looking at his ability to defend.

Can I add this to consider. Goal scorers and big point producers by nature just naturally have more flash and flair. It's the glory of the game. A defenseman will never be in consideration for the best player ever. Forward wise you have Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe etc. in the generational category. Judged on goal and point production. In the realm of the defenseman, it's Orr, Harvey, Lidstrom and Borque. They produce points but not at the astronomical level that a Gretzky or Lemiex did. You can't judge them by the same standard. When looking at Gretzky as generational player, you aren't looking at his ability to defend.
- MJL

Great points. I’m glad you put Harvey in there. I missed him but my gramps said he revolutionized the game in his time the same way Orr did in his.

Edit: The position not the game.

Torts is going upstairs after this season anyway (God help us all) and Berube will be the coach next season.
- Phillywhiteout

Are they still paying AV? So they will pay Torts not to coach as well? Highest paid coaching staff in NHL history?

Pens have five Cups on the backs of multiple generational players.

Meanwhile, Danny: "Rebuild with an asterisk"
- Tomahawk

Thank goodness for the memories because poop is about to get bleak

Can I add this to consider. Goal scorers and big point producers by nature just naturally have more flash and flair. It's the glory of the game. A defenseman will never be in consideration for the best player ever. Forward wise you have Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe etc. in the generational category. Judged on goal and point production. In the realm of the defenseman, it's Orr, Harvey, Lidstrom and Borque. They produce points but not at the astronomical level that a Gretzky or Lemiex did. You can't judge them by the same standard. When looking at Gretzky as generational player, you aren't looking at his ability to defend.
- MJL

Watching a game the other day and top players with 100 assists in a season came up and Orr was in top 5

Are they still paying AV? So they will pay Torts not to coach as well? Highest paid coaching staff in NHL history?
- furio16

This is the final season they are paying AV. If -- and, I repeat, if -- Tortorella moves up to a hockey operations position, he's still under the same contract. Maybe he only wanted to coach a couple more years. Or maybe there's nothing to the rumor.

Watching a game the other day and top players with 100 assists in a season came up and Orr was in top 5
- Hubby

Orr changed the game.

In the 70/71 season, he was a +124

This is the final season they are paying AV. If -- and, I repeat, if -- Tortorella moves up to a hockey operations position, he's still under the same contract. Maybe he only wanted to coach a couple more years. Or maybe there's nothing to the rumor.
- bmeltzer

I myself do not buy the rumor. He will leave coaching only if he is forced.

Yes under the same the contract. Seems like a lot of money for a an inexperienced hockey ops guy. Not being in contol will bug him a lot IMO. NOt having any type of final say will not work with him.

This is the final season they are paying AV. If -- and, I repeat, if -- Tortorella moves up to a hockey operations position, he's still under the same contract. Maybe he only wanted to coach a couple more years. Or maybe there's nothing to the rumor.
- bmeltzer

I was listening to Andy Strickland on NHL Network with Boomer Gordon a couple of weeks ago and he is good buddies with Berube. He mentioned that Berube wants to get back into coaching next year and that Philly is an option because there is expectation that Torts wants to go upstairs. Jonesy is also good buddies with Berube from their playing days (he protected Jonesy....lol), so wouldn't surprise me if this comes to fruition. Just speculation at this point of course.

I myself do not buy the rumor. He will leave coaching only if he is forced.

Yes under the same the contract. Seems like a lot of money for a an inexperienced hockey ops guy. Not being in contol will bug him a lot IMO. NOt having any type of final say will not work with him.
- furio16

He'll still be in control. Still a core decision maker. And he'll have already firmly established his way of doing things and his core philosophy which Shaw (or Rocky or Chief or whoever) will carry forward under his direct supervision.

Gaining steam? Cause one other clueless soul uses your stupid ass nickname?

- Phillywhiteout

says the unoriginal, parroting smacked ass whose best effort is eh what and thanks, (frank) you and your emojis

He'll still be in control. Still a core decision maker. And he'll have already firmly established his way of doing things and his core philosophy which Shaw (or Rocky or Chief or whoever) will carry forward under his direct supervision.
- Tomahawk

I have hope that he'll eventually run his course as a coach and then move on. Tortorella moving upstairs into a management position is a nightmare scenario.

88 was absolutely generational. One or two twists in the fabric of time and he he wins at least one: Brindy instead of Foppa in the trade for him; Cujo signed instead of Beezer; Clarke is the one who trades for Roy or Bourque; all for example.
- daddytc

ill go to my grave convinced of that

says the unoriginal, parroting smacked ass whose best effort is eh what and thanks, (frank) you and your emojis
- THE BLACK HAND

Panties on a little tight again? Eh what? Thanks!

He'll still be in control. Still a core decision maker. And he'll have already firmly established his way of doing things and his core philosophy which Shaw (or Rocky or Chief or whoever) will carry forward under his direct supervision.
- Tomahawk

Not sure I agree though with him involved the entire hierarchy is doomed to fail I will say.

He has a lot of say now no doubt. I do not think he will have as much if he isn't in a coaching role. Now if he becomes GM or President then all bets off.

Thank goodness for the memories because poop is about to get bleak
- stayinthefnnet

Great run for your guys. Kinda what happens in the cap world. And time catches up to us all.

Why are you arguing with me about MY opinion that you are purposefully misrepresenting. I said Lindros, in his prime, was the most dominating player I have seen, You disagree, move on.
- MBFlyerfan

Lindros was a machine. Had he stayed healthy, who knows where he'd have ended up. And all the added drama, above and beyond that which accompanies an elite athlete, certainly didn't help anything, and there was A LOT of drama.

I have hope that he'll eventually run his course as a coach and then move on. Tortorella moving upstairs into a management position is a nightmare scenario.
- MJL

As Flyers fans we should pretty much always expect the nightmare scenario.

Not sure I agree though with him involved the entire hierarchy is doomed to fail I will say.

He has a lot of say now no doubt. I do not think he will have as much if he isn't in a coaching role. Now if he becomes GM or President then all bets off.
- furio16

He's already co-equal to the GM and POHO. A move upstairs only further entrenches him. Coaches have shelf lives... FO executives really don't.

He locked the owners out of the employee break room.
- anti-lame

Hahaaaa! Well played 😂😂😂

As Flyers fans we should pretty much always expect the nightmare scenario.
- Tomahawk

I think we call all get around this statement 👏

ill go to my grave convinced of that
- THE BLACK HAND

There is a lot wrong w that dudes staement. Brindy for Foppa is the criminal one.