Very much like the assessment Martin had in the post-game press conference. What he's saying about making technical changes to adjust to different game situations is music to my ears. Less keen on how Stutzle was answering... who just seems kind of lost right now. Maybe need to have guys like Alfredsson/Giroux sit him down and talk about how to manage the pressure of being "the guy".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuDPCnnbTLY&t=46s

I also really like Crookshank, whose development I've been watching since his BCHL days. He's just seems like one of those players that keeps exceeding expectations at every level. Plays with pace and a bit of an edge, and can give you different looks in terms of a more offensive/defensive game. Feels like a solid bottom-6 option, especially if paired with someone like Kastelic who can balance out his smaller frame.

Oh o.k its the fans fault, they dont know how to play defense and loose regularly because of it. Thank goodness that the reason is the fans fault , otherwise those baby goats would have to learn how to play smart and win.

It is silly to think their confidence is broken from any other reason then loosing. And coming to the realization that you can't compete in a competitive league because of how you play must be shocking to some of them
- spazzbot

I am old enough to remember Daigle. Contrary to what folks believe he had an outstanding rookie season and, I believe, still holds the rookie record for the Sens.

In his second year coaches, fans and media began to focus on his defensive inadequacies and the criticism was fairly strong. His game fell apart and he never regained the form he demonstrated as a rookie.

So, does Mack Celebrini become part of our post season discussion?

I am old enough to remember Daigle. Contrary to what folks believe he had an outstanding rookie season and, I believe, still holds the rookie record for the Sens.

In his second year coaches, fans and media began to focus on his defensive inadequacies and the criticism was fairly strong. His game fell apart and he never regained the form he demonstrated as a rookie.
- spatso

FYI ... Daigle is 4rth on list for most rookie points (Yashin, Stone, Alfredsson) .... and the fact that Daigle was losing interest in hockey and wanting to pursue Hollywood instead. You constantly call them kids ... why? ... I have no idea. They are young adults. They have been under pressure since they were 15-16 years old, so pressure to perform is nothing new. Some have played for their country teams. The main problem is that they have rarely been told "no, don't do that", or sat for errors they make. Time to put the big boy pants on. For many it is the first time they have experienced any adversity. This is something DJ Smith should have been doing all along.

FYI ... Daigle is 4rth on list for most rookie points (Yashin, Stone, Alfredsson) .... and the fact that Daigle was losing interest in hockey and wanting to pursue Hollywood instead. You constantly call them kids ... why? ... I have no idea. They are young adults. They have been under pressure since they were 15-16 years old, so pressure to perform is nothing new. Some have played for their country teams. The main problem is that they have rarely been told "no, don't do that", or sat for errors they make. Time to put the big boy pants on. For many it is the first time they have experienced any adversity. This is something DJ Smith should have been doing all along.
- OttawaB

It is not just the pure age factor. Stutzle is playing in the number 1 centre position. Sanderson, with one year of NHL hockey experience, is the Sens top Dman and quarterbacking the #1 power play. Clearly, it is easy to say, they are not doing enough to help this team get over the top and earn a playoff spot.

But, should we be loading that expectation and pressure unto their young shoulders?

I am old enough to remember Daigle. Contrary to what folks believe he had an outstanding rookie season and, I believe, still holds the rookie record for the Sens.

In his second year coaches, fans and media began to focus on his defensive inadequacies and the criticism was fairly strong. His game fell apart and he never regained the form he demonstrated as a rookie.
- spatso

Daigle may hold the record for an 18yo rookie with 20G-31A, but Yashin had a far more impressive rookie season with 30G-49A in the same year. Not to mention that Daigle actually improved upon both his goals/GP and points/GP in his 2nd year, despite whatever criticisms you might be alluding to. It then became increasingly clear that Daigle was enjoying being a celebrity more than he enjoyed playing NHL hockey, and wasn't really interested in putting in the hard work to be a complete hockey player. The fact that he then bounced between 5 NHL teams in less than 3yrs before stepping away from hockey entirely for 2yrs kind of proves that he didn't have what it took. Trying to put that on the fans, or the criticisms about his defensive play is just wrong.

Stutzle, on the other hand, seems to genuinely love the game, went against the grain in Germany to keep playing hockey instead of soccer, and clearly wants to improve. But you don't improve by being insulated from criticism when you're not playing well - you improve by having someone help you learn from your mistakes, and building up your resilience. In other words, actual NHL coaching.

So, does Mack Celebrini become part of our post season discussion?
- spatso

Sens would do well to get Cayden Lindstrom

Lindstrom-Stutzle-Tkachuk would be pretty terrifying if things went as expected.

Sens would do well to get Cayden Lindstrom

Lindstrom-Stutzle-Tkachuk would be pretty terrifying if things went as expected.
- AdamFrench

There's very little chance of them hitting the draft lottery... but if they should fall back into the #10 pick range, there are a few RHD that are projected to go in the top-half of the first round - any of which would be a nice addition to a very LHD-heavy blue line. In particular, a D-man like Adam Jiricek could be very useful in that he projects as a quality two-way D-man with decent size and NHL bloodlines via his brother. He could be a quality complement for any of the more offensive-minded LHD who just need a bit of reliable two-way support to be more aggressive with the puck.

I think there is a very real chance of the Sens drafting in the top 10. That won't change unless the players show signs they can improve. I'm taking a "I'll believe it when I see it " approach.

However, when they draft in the top 15 .... I'm a huge proponent of drafting the best player available.

Daigle may hold the record for an 18yo rookie with 20G-31A, but Yashin had a far more impressive rookie season with 30G-49A in the same year. Not to mention that Daigle actually improved upon both his goals/GP and points/GP in his 2nd year, despite whatever criticisms you might be alluding to. It then became increasingly clear that Daigle was enjoying being a celebrity more than he enjoyed playing NHL hockey, and wasn't really interested in putting in the hard work to be a complete hockey player. The fact that he then bounced between 5 NHL teams in less than 3yrs before stepping away from hockey entirely for 2yrs kind of proves that he didn't have what it took. Trying to put that on the fans, or the criticisms about his defensive play is just wrong.

Stutzle, on the other hand, seems to genuinely love the game, went against the grain in Germany to keep playing hockey instead of soccer, and clearly wants to improve. But you don't improve by being insulated from criticism when you're not playing well - you improve by having someone help you learn from your mistakes, and building up your resilience. In other words, actual NHL coaching.
- khawk

Daigle had all the tools. Something happened in the second year. It became very apparent in his third year. He stopped liking hockey. He failed to live up to expectations and the criticism was withering. Development is more than just skill and winning.

Sens would do well to get Cayden Lindstrom

Lindstrom-Stutzle-Tkachuk would be pretty terrifying if things went as expected.
- AdamFrench

Big body, scores goals.

Hate to see this become a tank year. Would be a huge mistake to move into a mini rebuild at this time. But, we know when management gives up on the players, the players begin to give up on themselves and some start looking for a way out. This team has the makings of a serious contender. We need more patience and less discontent.

I am not really concerned with the very young players like Sanderson, Grieg, and Stu. I am more concerned about guys like Batherson, Brady, Norris, Chabot, Chychrun, etc. These players have been NHL pros for a while now and have experienced nothing but losing and they are approaching their peak production years. Losing mindsets are hard to get out of.

At the end of the day, all these guys are adults in a business where the goal is to win. All players will go through tough times before greener pastures. If players need to be coddled and can’t deal with valid criticism, then maybe they need to play in a different market.

Like it or not, fans of Canadian teams will be passionate. Every spot has their passionate fan bases.

I am not really concerned with the very young players like Sanderson, Grieg, and Stu. I am more concerned about guys like Batherson, Brady, Norris, Chabot, Chychrun, etc. These players have been NHL pros for a while now and have experienced nothing but losing and they are approaching their peak production years. Losing mindsets are hard to get out of.

At the end of the day, all these guys are adults in a business where the goal is to win. All players will go through tough times before greener pastures. If players need to be coddled and can’t deal with valid criticism, then maybe they need to play in a different market.

Like it or not, fans of Canadian teams will be passionate. Every spot has their passionate fan bases.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

This is not an insignificant thought. Passionate Canadian markets are tough for some players. We see players moving away. A large part of it is taxes. But, the fish bowl nature of our Canadian hockey world is hard on players, their wives and their families.

Veteran teams succeed in the playoffs and win Stanley Cups and it takes time to allow the younger players to learn how to win and become contenders.

It bothers me that some fans fail to grasp how incredibly more difficult it becomes when the local team is not a desired destination. Even worse, when young players start looking around hoping to get out of town.

The Sens are a talented team. They can be a contender. It would be a tragic error to make knee jerk reactions and set into place another rebuild. The kids need to know that the community cares about them. They are good and then they are bad. It changes from one period to the next.

This is not an insignificant thought. Passionate Canadian markets are tough for some players. We see players moving away. A large part of it is taxes. But, the fish bowl nature of our Canadian hockey world is hard on players, their wives and their families.

Veteran teams succeed in the playoffs and win Stanley Cups and it takes time to allow the younger players to learn how to win and become contenders.

It bothers me that some fans fail to grasp how incredibly more difficult it becomes when the local team is not a desired destination. Even worse, when young players start looking around hoping to get out of town.

The Sens are a talented team. They can be a contender. It would be a tragic error to make knee jerk reactions and set into place another rebuild. The kids need to know that the community cares about them. They are good and then they are bad. It changes from one period to the next.
- spatso

I don’t have much sympathy if a guy signs an 8-year deal in Ottawa, but he doesn’t want to be here. Seems like a silly thing to do professionally and personally. Say what you want about DeBrincat but he didn’t want to be here and sounded like he was upfront about that with the team. It’s one thing to get drafted or traded to an organization but to sign a max term deal at your own will is another thing. I do not think we have reached that point yet with any current players.

Entering another rebuild would be a serious step back. I don’t think anyone is advocating for that. However, when you have a team so low in the standings, are at the cap, and have guys entering their prime, you will need to make a significant move or two to see some improvement. A coaching change was a good start. To stay the course would be the definition of insanity.

With the prospect of a new GM coming, an ownership group and hockey ops that had next to no involvement with the construction of this roster, it would be naïve to assume more changes are not coming by the time the next season kicks off in October of 2024. They will have to be well-calculated and good old-fashioned hockey moves.

Daigle had all the tools. Something happened in the second year. It became very apparent in his third year. He stopped liking hockey. He failed to live up to expectations and the criticism was withering. Development is more than just skill and winning.
- spatso

Daigle also famously said that nobody remembers who gets drafted 2nd overall, and signed what at that point was the richest rookie contract in NHL history. His deal literally forced the NHL to impose a cap on rookie contracts years before the lockout that resulted in the introduction of the salary cap. You can argue that it was a mistake for the Senators to have framed him as the face of the franchise so quickly, but Daigle was more than up for the media attention. Any attempt to portray Daigle as some kind of fragile spirit or victim of fan negativity is revisionist nonsense. He's just become a cautionary tale of the reality that pure talent will only carry you so far.

That said, I still have a bit of a soft spot for Daigle - just because of the excitement that his potential brought to the new franchise. It's also excessively harsh to brand him the worst 1st overall bust in history... Yakupov and Stefan were objectively far worse, not to mention the likes of Lawton or Wickenheiser. Perspective is also important when judging these things, and I really like this quote from him: “I had a great life out of it,” he said. “I played a lot of games. Everybody’s criticizing careers, saying I ‘should have been.’ Yeah I should have been. But if you tell me my son will win two world championships, play 650 games, 200 in Europe, travel the world … I will sign him up (for that career) tomorrow. Anybody would.”

I also remember watching an interview with him many years back when he was living in Davos, where he was basically noting that he was making something like $1M/yr as a top-line player of a two-time Swiss championship team, his family was living in a beautiful Swiss alpine city, they'd all been granted Swiss citizenship, his kids were in a private school, and he was really just enjoying having that life experience as a young family. If that's really what the face of failure looks like, we should all be so lucky.



Davos ffs

Daigle also famously said that nobody remembers who gets drafted 2nd overall, and signed what at that point was the richest rookie contract in NHL history. His deal literally forced the NHL to impose a cap on rookie contracts years before the lockout that resulted in the introduction of the salary cap. You can argue that it was a mistake for the Senators to have framed him as the face of the franchise so quickly, but Daigle was more than up for the media attention. Any attempt to portray Daigle as some kind of fragile spirit or victim of fan negativity is revisionist nonsense. He's just become a cautionary tale of the reality that pure talent will only carry you so far.

That said, I still have a bit of a soft spot for Daigle - just because of the excitement that his potential brought to the new franchise. It's also excessively harsh to brand him the worst 1st overall bust in history... Yakupov and Stefan were objectively far worse, not to mention the likes of Lawton or Wickenheiser. Perspective is also important when judging these things, and I really like this quote from him: “I had a great life out of it,” he said. “I played a lot of games. Everybody’s criticizing careers, saying I ‘should have been.’ Yeah I should have been. But if you tell me my son will win two world championships, play 650 games, 200 in Europe, travel the world … I will sign him up (for that career) tomorrow. Anybody would.”

I also remember watching an interview with him many years back when he was living in Davos, where he was basically noting that he was making something like $1M/yr as a top-line player of a two-time Swiss championship team, his family was living in a beautiful Swiss alpine city, they'd all been granted Swiss citizenship, his kids were in a private school, and he was really just enjoying having that life experience as a young family. If that's really what the face of failure looks like, we should all be so lucky.



Davos ffs
- khawk

Daigle made 3mil-800k American (more or less) for 13 years to half ass his game and do the bare minimum in training. I agree 100% with him that if I could get that amount of money to play a game, keep in shape and party, go for it.

Makes me carzy that JM spent a lot of first practise going over shift lengths and management of changes. Basic stuff that should have been drilled into them a long time ago. Makes me wonder what other fundamentals DJ missed.

I know some of you are already looking ahead to the draft but it wouldn't surprise me if they went on a run to mess up their draft order and end up picking 11-15.

Going to be an adjustment period. Would have been helped by DJ's earlier firing.

But I get it..they took possession of the team too late.

This is not an insignificant thought. Passionate Canadian markets are tough for some players. We see players moving away. A large part of it is taxes. But, the fish bowl nature of our Canadian hockey world is hard on players, their wives and their families.

Veteran teams succeed in the playoffs and win Stanley Cups and it takes time to allow the younger players to learn how to win and become contenders.

It bothers me that some fans fail to grasp how incredibly more difficult it becomes when the local team is not a desired destination. Even worse, when young players start looking around hoping to get out of town.

The Sens are a talented team. They can be a contender. It would be a tragic error to make knee jerk reactions and set into place another rebuild. The kids need to know that the community cares about them. They are good and then they are bad. It changes from one period to the next.
- spatso

We should throw them a parade to show how special they are.

Ottawa (Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary, etc. ) has never been a desired location. But every city in the NHL has booed their home team at some point. It is just not a big deal. Nobody's looking to get out of town. Hell, they all signed 8 year contracts. LOL. These players need to learn the nitty gritty details now ... the details of the game. How to properly line change, playing on the south (downside) side of the puck. It will take repition to learn how to properly play defence and not cheat the game. The players are going to learn what it is like to have a task master coach who holds them accountable. Its not their favourite buddy Uncle coaching anymore.
What I like about the interim tag for Martin and Alfredsson, is that they will be staying in consultant roles with the team. They aren't going away after their coaching stint. And make no mistake, each player is being evaluated on their place in this team. No free rides anymore. Martin and Alfredsson do not need to tiptoe around any of the player personalities. The country club is over. The sweat shop begins ...... I'm just waiting for them to break out the bikes for some riding after the games.

I like the game so far. Ottawa has shown up to play. Yes there are still some mistakes. But after 2 periods they seem to be leaving it all out there. I like the effort.

I like the game so far. Ottawa has shown up to play. Yes there are still some mistakes. But after 2 periods they seem to be leaving it all out there. I like the effort.
- OttawaB

3rd period, Ottawa down a goal and Hamonic again throws a pass to the front of his own net and almost resulted in a goal. Why is he still playing ???!!!! He continually makes poor choices.

Wow. Is Stutzle ever snake bit. How many scoring chances? Maybe its time to start staying after practice and shoot the puck some more.

Another tough loss for the Sens. But I am a bit more encouraged by the play. I have given up on playoffs. Its time to start looking at some trades and hoping for a good draft pick.

Capuano runs the penalty kill. Why is he still a coach for the Senators?

Wow. Is Stutzle ever snake bit. How many scoring chances? Maybe its time to start staying after practice and shoot the puck some more.

Another tough loss for the Sens. But I am a bit more encouraged by the play. I have given up on playoffs. Its time to start looking at some trades and hoping for a good draft pick.

Capuano runs the penalty kill. Why is he still a coach for the Senators?
- OttawaB

Exactly. At this point it's mercy / class on behalf of the GM. Saying just to finish out his contract with the team.

Sens have had horrible bad luck to this year and BAD chemistry. What happened to Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson........ or Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux.

At this point, why not get a top 5 pick and regroup for next year? I'm not saying tank but trade away guys like Kubalik, Tarasenko, Forsberg - heck even Joseph if it gets us a GREAT return (otherwise keep him) and develop some strong defensive awareness and habits into Batherson, Chychrun, Norris, Chabot, Stutzle and others. Bring up Kleven, play crookshank a hand full of games. Heck give Soogard some gaves too. This team needs to start making some roster moves because it's on the players now more than ever. The GM is gone, the head coach is gone, the assistant coach (1 of them at least) is gone, and there's even new ownership and execs. The onus is on them to win games or die trying. The effort is there but I also think they need to develop BIG TIME how to play with leads and confidence in difficult situations where the movement of the game shifts - this is something Jacques Martin and whoever the next head coach is must address and build

Exactly. At this point it's mercy / class on behalf of the GM. Saying just to finish out his contract with the team.

Sens have had horrible bad luck to this year and BAD chemistry. What happened to Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson........ or Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux.

At this point, why not get a top 5 pick and regroup for next year? I'm not saying tank but trade away guys like Kubalik, Tarasenko, Forsberg - heck even Joseph if it gets us a GREAT return (otherwise keep him) and develop some strong defensive awareness and habits into Batherson, Chychrun, Norris, Chabot, Stutzle and others. Bring up Kleven, play crookshank a hand full of games. Heck give Soogard some gaves too. This team needs to start making some roster moves because it's on the players now more than ever. The GM is gone, the head coach is gone, the assistant coach (1 of them at least) is gone, and there's even new ownership and execs. The onus is on them to win games or die trying. The effort is there but I also think they need to develop BIG TIME how to play with leads and confidence in difficult situations where the movement of the game shifts - this is something Jacques Martin and whoever the next head coach is must address and build
- AlfieisKing

Its going to take a while for Martin to override the years of bad habits and coaching by Smith, he wont fix this in a 1-2 games, it might take the rest of the season to de-program the players from smiths bad coaching.

Its going to take a while for Martin to override the years of bad habits and coaching by Smith, he wont fix this in a 1-2 games, it might take the rest of the season to de-program the players from smiths bad coaching.
- Mithos

I hope you are right. But, I have doubts. I fear that we are seeing serious regression in the play of some of the young players.