If the Flyers were smart they would offer Dumba a 1x4mil contract then flip him at the deadline at 50% retained for picks.

This is the type of GM work i would like to see for the next 3 years, acquire picks and prospects and give the kids some time to develope.
- Flyerloon

Why would Dumba take that deal?

And where are the Flyers going to get $4M? They have $2.9M in space now and I presume that is going to Frost, though its curious he has still not been signed now the DeAngelo is gone.
- jd250

We have 9,217,905 of cap space so yes we have the space to bring him in and if you tell him upfront you will move him to a contender at TDL he will come here if no one makes him a better offer.

Why would Dumba take that deal?
- MJL

If the Flyers were smart they would offer Dumba a 1x4mil contract then flip him at the deadline at 50% retained for picks.

This is the type of GM work i would like to see for the next 3 years, acquire picks and prospects and give the kids some time to develope.
- Flyerloon

Why would Dumba take that deal?

Wow, when I saw the name Chris Gratton I threw up in my mouth. Yes, I thought it was THAT Chris Gratton. Talk about a disappointment. Thought he was the final piece to winning a few Cups in Philly, and the dude went belly up as soon as he put on the orange and black uni. What an utter disgrace.

Why would Dumba take that deal?
- MJL

Easy , he value is perceived as being low due to a few seasons of not producing a lot on the offensive side. It gives him a chance at top 4 ice time and PP time probably on the 2nd unit. If he can produce at a decent rate we could get a 2nd or maybe a 1st if he goes crazy and scores a bunch.

We have 9,217,905 of cap space so yes we have the space to bring him in and if you tell him upfront you will move him to a contender at TDL he will come here if no one makes him a better offer.
- Flyerloon

That's potential LTIR cap space.

Easy , he value is perceived as being low due to a few seasons of not producing a lot on the offensive side. It gives him a chance at top 4 ice time and PP time probably on the 2nd unit. If he can produce at a decent rate we could get a 2nd or maybe a 1st if he goes crazy and scores a bunch.
- Flyerloon

If he is going to take a 1 year cheap deal, I would think it would be with a team with a chance to make the playoffs and not on a bottom feeder.

That's potential LTIR cap space.
- MJL

There is currently 6 teams that will utilize LTIR, is there a reason why we shouldn't use ours to being assets back?

If he is going to take a 1 year cheap deal, I would think it would be with a team with a chance to make the playoffs and not on a bottom feeder.
- MJL

Klingberg last year comes to mind, signed with Anaheim then crapped the bed and they got a 6th or 7th from the Wild.

I would hope the return would be better because Klingberg is so one dimensional.

Why would Dumba take that deal?
- MJL

could be several reasons cliff

There is currently 6 teams that will utilize LTIR, is there a reason why we shouldn't use ours to being assets back?
- Flyerloon

I don't recall stating that the Flyers shouldn't use LTIR cap space.

I don't recall stating that the Flyers shouldn't use LTIR cap space.
- MJL

When i stated they had over 9.2 mil to weaponize to bring assets back you said we had 2.9mil. If we didnt intend to use the LTIR then trade him or else use it to gain assets its really that simple.

Take a look at chicago, how many guys get traded at the deadline there? alot i bet, point is we are not going to compete for at least 3 years min, probably closer to 5-6 years if done correctly so lets get all the picks we can and maybe we can hit on a few 4-5-6-7 rd picks for once.

When i stated they had over 9.2 mil to weaponize to bring assets back you said we had 2.9mil. If we didnt intend to use the LTIR then trade him or else use it to gain assets its really that simple.

Take a look at chicago, how many guys get traded at the deadline there? alot i bet, point is we are not going to compete for at least 3 years min, probably closer to 5-6 years if done correctly so lets get all the picks we can and maybe we can hit on a few 4-5-6-7 rd picks for once.
- Flyerloon

You're confused. It was another poster who told you that. I understand the premise and agree that the Flyers should be using cap space to take on players, bad contracts etc to gain future assets. I just questioned why Dumba would want to sign here. I have doubts that he would. The Flyers are pretty full with vet defenseman.

76 points in two straight seasons, Selke winner the season after, 16th in points by centers over a 4 year period - more than Barzal, Backstrom, Zibanejad and Bergeron.


- Feanor

12 seasons in league and you talking 2 or 3 seasons where ranks top 16?

Yes I’ll get my shine box. So laughable

You said he was "never a 1C." But by any measure he was a 1C for four years in a row. The four seasons before he signed his contract he had as many points as ROR who was the 1C on the Cup winning Blues during that time. He was the 1C on the 6th best team in the league in the 19-20 season when he won the Selke trophy.

Keep this up as long as you like, because watching you choke on your absurd arguments is hilarious. You're gagging like one of Hunter's hookers.
- Feanor

So you’re fine with having coots at his best as an average 1c compared to a great 2c? K. Guess it was quite the ride for 4 season way back when. For however many games he played. I stand choked

So you’re fine with having coots at his best as an average 1c compared to a great 2c? K. Guess it was quite the ride for 4 season way back when. For however many games he played. I stand choked
- SMS4016

Just for poops and giggles. Your reply here is absent of any logic. Somehow you are conflating Feanor's facts which clearly show that Couturier was no doubt a 1C level player, as the same thing as saying he would be against Couturier being the 2nd center on the team behind say, an elite #1 center. You made an idiotic response here to go with all the rest that you've made today.

You're confused. It was another poster who told you that. I understand the premise and agree that the Flyers should be using cap space to take on players, bad contracts etc to gain future assets. I just questioned why Dumba would want to sign here. I have doubts that he would. The Flyers are pretty full with vet defenseman.
- MJL

Your correct, it was other posters here who dont understand the nhl LTIR. If dumba was going to sign with a contender it would've already happened, and at this point it is probably going to be a 1 year show me contract. So why wouldn't he consider the Flyers if we can pay more and give him top 4 minutes?

So you’re fine with having coots at his best as an average 1c compared to a great 2c? K. Guess it was quite the ride for 4 season way back when. For however many games he played. I stand choked
- SMS4016

Question. What was the original argument? Whether or not Couturier is a number 1 center? I think it’s unanimous that the odds are against you that he is. Even if 29 centers have been better in Couturier’s four best seasons, there were at least 30-31 teams in the league while he was playing. If you think he’s a lower tier number 1 center, different argument entirely. Winning the Selke and getting votes in nomination puts Couturier in the conversation with the likes of Bergeron, Barkov, Kopitar and Toews. I think I would put Coots on par with Toews for regular season stats. So what exactly is the problem?

Your correct, it was other posters here who dont understand the nhl LTIR. If dumba was going to sign with a contender it would've already happened, and at this point it is probably going to be a 1 year show me contract. So why wouldn't he consider the Flyers if we can pay more and give him top 4 minutes?
- Flyerloon

There are number of players that are still unsigned. Dumba would likely have to take less than he wants but I would believe that he would favor that rather than signing with the Flyers. I also don't think the Flyers are looking at that.

Your correct, it was other posters here who dont understand the nhl LTIR. If dumba was going to sign with a contender it would've already happened, and at this point it is probably going to be a 1 year show me contract. So why wouldn't he consider the Flyers if we can pay more and give him top 4 minutes?
- Flyerloon

The other part of this is, if we get him and moved him at the TDL we could bring up Attard if hes ready to fill the spot.

You said he was "never a 1C." But by any measure he was a 1C for four years in a row. The four seasons before he signed his contract he had as many points as ROR who was the 1C on the Cup winning Blues during that time. He was the 1C on the 6th best team in the league in the 19-20 season when he won the Selke trophy.

Keep this up as long as you like, because watching you choke on your absurd arguments is hilarious. You're gagging like one of Hunter's hookers.
- Feanor

Is it a given that the term 1c (which presumably has a bit more bite than the tautological 'played center on 1st line') must be defined over single, regular seasons? I assume here it means a value judgment about ability rather than a position filler.

What if we look for the all seasons since SC first and last played in playoffs, and normalize by games played (look for P/GP)?

Yeah in some of those years, he would be a rookie, and not playing as first line center. But if we are looking at ability, rather than just who played in 1c position, then that should come through in stats. (For eg, Giroux's best years in playoffs was on 3rd line; Carter's best on 2nd line, ditto Malkin, and so on).3rd line also means easier match-ups, for example. And as for being a rookie, a long span of time means your are also including other guys who are also rookies, guys entering the twilight of careers, etc. etc.

I did this exercise for a 28 game dataset, which would mean a min of 4 playoff series played (and likely at least 6).

In such a sample, Sean Couturier would finish 40th.

What does that mean? It means if you chose a random playoff year during this span, SC would not be a 1c in terms of being a top center in that randomly picked playoff year.

(I am not saying this should be the standard adopted btw. I am just trying to present a different perspective for assessing the 1c criterion)

Is it a given that the term 1c (which presumably has a bit more bite than the tautological 'played center on 1st line') must be defined over single, regular seasons? I assume here it means a value judgment about ability rather than a position filler.

What if we look for the all seasons since SC first and last played in playoffs, and normalize by games played (look for P/GP)?

Yeah in some of those years, he would be a rookie, and not playing as first line center. But if we are looking at ability, rather than just who played in 1c position, then that should come through in stats. (For eg, Giroux's best years in playoffs was on 3rd line; Carter's best on 2nd line, ditto Malkin, and so on).3rd line also means easier match-ups, for example. And as for being a rookie, a long span of time means your are also including other guys who are also rookies, guys entering the twilight of careers, etc. etc.

I did this exercise for a 28 game dataset, which would mean a min of 4 playoff series played (and likely at least 6).

In such a sample, Sean Couturier would finish 40th.

What does that mean? It means if you chose a random playoff year during this span, SC would not be a 1c in terms of being a top center in that randomly picked playoff year.

(I am not saying this should be the standard adopted btw. I am just trying to present a different perspective for assessing the 1c criterion)
- PT21

You're not giving consideration to usage, deployment and ice time. Such as PP ice time.

Is it a given that the term 1c (which presumably has a bit more bite than the tautological 'played center on 1st line') must be defined over single, regular seasons? I assume here it means a value judgment about ability rather than a position filler.

What if we look for the all seasons since SC first and last played in playoffs, and normalize by games played (look for P/GP)?

Yeah in some of those years, he would be a rookie, and not playing as first line center. But if we are looking at ability, rather than just who played in 1c position, then that should come through in stats. (For eg, Giroux's best years in playoffs was on 3rd line; Carter's best on 2nd line, ditto Malkin, and so on).3rd line also means easier match-ups, for example. And as for being a rookie, a long span of time means your are also including other guys who are also rookies, guys entering the twilight of careers, etc. etc.

I did this exercise for a 28 game dataset, which would mean a min of 4 playoff series played (and likely at least 6).

In such a sample, Sean Couturier would finish 40th.

What does that mean? It means if you chose a random playoff year during this span, SC would not be a 1c in terms of being a top center in that randomly picked playoff year.

(I am not saying this should be the standard adopted btw. I am just trying to present a different perspective for assessing the 1c criterion)
- PT21

I have wondered if even Patrice Bergeron’s greatness would ever get as much credit if he plays somewhere outside of Boston. Bergeron does all the small things better than most but Bergeron has always had elite wingers and you can’t discount the systems put in place that have allowed him to thrive.

I have wondered if even Patrice Bergeron’s greatness would ever get as much credit if he plays somewhere outside of Boston. Bergeron does all the small things better than most but Bergeron has always had elite wingers and you can’t discount the systems put in place that have allowed him to thrive.
- SuperSchennBros

Sure. Some guys are beneficiaries of who they play/ed with. For example, consider Ringo Starr.

But I feel in general that usage of stats on the part of fans tends to be heavily skewed towards regular season, and playoff stats are neglected in general.

To address your point more precisely, SC has played more than half of his playoff career, iirc, with Giroux on his wing. That's not chopped liver, especially for those who constantly moan Giroux 'never had the linemates to succeed' - you can't have it both ways. Tavares comes to mind here: he played a large # of games with okposo as the stud on his wing, iirc?