Is the challenge to ask the stupidest question possible?
- joel878

Hateful man you are. Have a good day Jollie Pollie Ollie

Is anyone actually interested in Hellybyuck?

Do you do Sammy for him straight up? Dillon is an interesting player.
- Santo_44

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Does anyone think the Leafs get past the Panthers if they had Hellebuyck in net vs Sammy or Woll?

I certainly don't and think it makes no sense to give up what is likely necessary to get him. I'd much rather see the Leafs get their own players who play the POS style both up front & more on D that has been proven year over year over year is necessary to win in the playoffs.

Look at the 2 teams in the finals.

One team riding a goalie on a miracle run which is pretty unpredictable and in the case of Bob has cost Florida 4 years of paying him 10M to play like crap and then go on this magical run that only started what half way through the 1st round? Toronto (fans, team, media) would NEVER stand for that the patience is just not there, look at how many people STILL hate Nylander.

The other team with a goalie carousel all year, 'good to great at times' goaltending but built with nasty / tough and big D who don't eff around and a team mentality of being tough whenever needed and not backing down.

I'll take door #2 all day every day because to me it's far more predictable and sustainable but Toronto is door #3 with so much $ loaded in such a small group of players who are not like Vegas for the most part.

I'd roll with Woll and Sammy if you can jettison Murray and get Sammy back on a short reasonable deal. If not go Murray/Woll and trade for someone to be a 1B who may want another kick at a cup and can mentor Woll like a Quick or MAF (assuming Murray gets hurt as he will).

\

Does anyone think the Leafs get past the Panthers if they had Hellebuyck in net vs Sammy or Woll?

I certainly don't and think it makes no sense to give up what is likely necessary to get him. I'd much rather see the Leafs get their own players who play the POS style both up front & more on D that has been proven year over year over year is necessary to win in the playoffs.

Look at the 2 teams in the finals.

One team riding a goalie on a miracle run which is pretty unpredictable and in the case of Bob has cost Florida 4 years of paying him 10M to play like crap and then go on this magical run that only started what half way through the 1st round? Toronto (fans, team, media) would NEVER stand for that the patience is just not there, look at how many people STILL hate Nylander.

The other team with a goalie carousel all year, 'good to great at times' goaltending but built with nasty / tough and big D who don't eff around and a team mentality of being tough whenever needed and not backing down.

I'll take door #2 all day every day because to me it's far more predictable and sustainable but Toronto is door #3 with so much $ loaded in such a small group of players who are not like Vegas for the most part.

I'd roll with Woll and Sammy if you can jettison Murray and get Sammy back on a short reasonable deal. If not go Murray/Woll and trade for someone to be a 1B who may want another kick at a cup and can mentor Woll like a Quick or MAF (assuming Murray gets hurt as he will).
- Cush29

Well I do not use one singular series as a template to judge what makes you better so that is a bit irrelevant to me...but maybe? Who knows really.

For what is worth Hellybyuck is one of the most predictably great goalie every year.

It depends on the price for me but he is most certainly a target for the new GM I would think.

Is anyone actually interested in Hellybyuck?

Do you do Sammy for him straight up? Dillon is an interesting player.
- Santo_44

yes

Is anyone actually interested in Hellybyuck?

Do you do Sammy for him straight up? Dillon is an interesting player.
- Santo_44

Hellebuyck would be the best offseason acquisition the Leafs could make. He is worth far more than Sammy 1:1 unfortunately. He's a top-5 goalie in the league - even if he only has one year left on his contract, he can be extended.

Hellebuyck would be the best offseason acquisition the Leafs could make. He is worth far more than Sammy 1:1 unfortunately. He's a top-5 goalie in the league - even if he only has one year left on his contract, he can be extended.
- Monkeypunk

He is interesting. He makes the Leafs better which is the goal this offseason.

Depends on the cost for me.

Sammy and a 1st seems high, maybe they can make the deal bigger and get another good player and add Liljregren?

Would be sucky to see Buffalo get him.

Did Zezel survive the Baycrest's Bike for Brain Health! yesterday?

Well I do not use one singular series as a template to judge what makes you better so that is a bit irrelevant to me...but maybe? Who knows really.

For what is worth Hellybyuck is one of the most predictably great goalie every year.

It depends on the price for me but he is most certainly a target for the new GM I would think.
- Santo_44

His playoff record is 40GP - 17 Wins and 23 Losses.

Blame the team in front of him all you like (because that's the predictable 'but' response) however are the Leafs a better performing playoff team than the Jets in the years Hellebuyck has been their goalie?

You may not use a 'single series" but I was talking about this entire playoff first of all and second of all I was talking about Bob's performance since he signed his 10M contract.

How far from 10M per year do you think Hellebuyck will be asking when his is a UFA at the end of next season?

The Leafs don't have the ability to sink a bunch of money into the goaltending position AND retain AM, MM, Nylander, JT, Reilly AND have anything other than plugs filling holes for the most part. They are already in a tough spot with what they have invested on the players under contract / needing new contracts that they want to keep so trading away things they need like picks, cap space or reasonable priced serviceable players for a year of Hellebuyck wold be a terrible move IMO.

Goaltending was not and is not the biggest wart with this team - the thought that it is and there is some magic bullet that can be obtained that will cover up all the issues in other parts of this team is BS pure and simple, it's far too unpredictable.

Riding a super expensive goalie to a Cup didn't work for the Habs when they rode Price to the finals and Florida is A LOT better than the Habs were but it may not even work out for them either.

Is anyone actually interested in Hellybyuck?

Do you do Sammy for him straight up? Dillon is an interesting player.
- Santo_44

Does he change the results of the Florida series?
I honestly dont believe he would.
Bigger defense is on my wish list.
But simply no cap for helly.

Caufield and Suzuki has won more playoffs round than the Leafs since 2003.

Slaf will improve and will be a great asset moving forward.
- Scabeh

Your inner troll popped up with the playoffs crack. Do better man.

Does he change the results of the Florida series?
I honestly dont believe he would.
Bigger defense is on my wish list.
But simply no cap for helly.
- Fakepartofme

Agreed the Leafs still lose vs Florida (see my long ass post with Helly's playoff record as proof he isn't stealing an entire series - he's not Eddie the Eagle vs Ottawa).

Agreed on D help, POS type wingers and D and that the cap simply means no team can really have an all star goalie, D, scoring and POS players if everyone is signed and paid their market value.

Toronto doesn't have a culture of superstar players taking a bit of a haircut to ensure the team can have extra $ needed for the one more big player and the needed supporting cast - seems like it's only the supporting cast guys who have done that (Spezza, Gio and hopefully Schenn).

I hope that the current core players start to buy into this strategy that we've seen teams like Boston, & Tampa have success with & it seems even perhaps Montreal is starting to build to some degree.

I hope it but don't really expect it, I mean after all it's the Leafs.

Does he change the results of the Florida series?
I honestly dont believe he would.
Bigger defense is on my wish list.
But simply no cap for helly.
- Fakepartofme

I’d like to see a shooter on the back end.

Does he change the results of the Florida series?
I honestly dont believe he would.
Bigger defense is on my wish list.
But simply no cap for helly.
- Fakepartofme

I dont see why that matters. would any goalie have outplayed Bob...I really doubt it

maybe 2011 Tim Thomas or 2003 Giggy..but propably not them either

\

Does anyone think the Leafs get past the Panthers if they had Hellebuyck in net vs Sammy or Woll?

I certainly don't and think it makes no sense to give up what is likely necessary to get him. I'd much rather see the Leafs get their own players who play the POS style both up front & more on D that has been proven year over year over year is necessary to win in the playoffs.

Look at the 2 teams in the finals.

One team riding a goalie on a miracle run which is pretty unpredictable and in the case of Bob has cost Florida 4 years of paying him 10M to play like crap and then go on this magical run that only started what half way through the 1st round? Toronto (fans, team, media) would NEVER stand for that the patience is just not there, look at how many people STILL hate Nylander.

The other team with a goalie carousel all year, 'good to great at times' goaltending but built with nasty / tough and big D who don't eff around and a team mentality of being tough whenever needed and not backing down.

I'll take door #2 all day every day because to me it's far more predictable and sustainable but Toronto is door #3 with so much $ loaded in such a small group of players who are not like Vegas for the most part.

I'd roll with Woll and Sammy if you can jettison Murray and get Sammy back on a short reasonable deal. If not go Murray/Woll and trade for someone to be a 1B who may want another kick at a cup and can mentor Woll like a Quick or MAF (assuming Murray gets hurt as he will).
- Cush29

Rarely can you wholly blame the goaltending for our losses since the rebuild started in earnest.

2017 to Washington in Game 6; Goalie had a GSAx of +0.36 - their goalie was 1.12
2018 to Boston in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of -3.16 - their goalie was 1.72
2019 to Boston in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 2.45 - their goalie was 1.58
2020 to Columbus in Game 5; Goalie had a GSAx of -0.57 - their goalie was 1.88
2021 to Montreal in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 0.35 - their goalie was 0.58
2022 to Tampa in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 0.95 - their goalie was 2.04

The trend is that the offense isn't getting it done, but also their goalie outshines ours when it matters consistently, except for the 5-1 loss to Boston in 2019.

As we've all said, Bobrovsky has been exception, but this series was determined by 4 one goal games. The goaltending from Woll was pretty good, but a game breaker like Hellebuyck literally could have changed that outcome and duelled with Bobrovsky at a much higher level.

Game 1, Florida 4-2
Leafs xGF: 4.46, xGA: 2.47. Actual GA: 4;net: -1.53

Game 2, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 4.03, xGA: 3.44. Actual GA: 3; net: -0.44

Game 3, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 2.51, xGA: 3.45. Actual GA: 3; net: 0.45

Game 4, Toronto 2-1
Leafs xGF: 2.48, xGA: 2.39. Actual GA: 2; net: 1.39

Game 5, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 4.26, xGA: 4.05. Actual GA: 3; net: 1.05

I remember how far CuJo and Belfour carried us when the skaters weren't doing their jobs. I'd like that type of goaltending again.

His playoff record is 40GP - 17 Wins and 23 Losses.

Blame the team in front of him all you like.
.
.

Riding a super expensive goalie to a Cup didn't work for the Habs when they rode Price to the finals and Florida is A LOT better than the Habs were but it may not even work out for them either.
- Cush29

Bearing in mind that the Leafs were better than Florida this year, Tampa last year, and the Habs the year before - but lost in each year to a top tier goalie because our goalie didn't match their goalie - especially when it mattered.

Having a league average goalie in net would suffice - BUT - then we need a better defense at preventing HD chances against. If we're going to roll out a mobile transition defense, then we need a last line of defense goaltender. If we remake the defense, then we can underspend on goaltending.

Did Zezel survive the Baycrest's Bike for Brain Health! yesterday?
- dmnted

Indeed! Absolutely beautiful ride on the Gardiner and DVP. Me and She-Z did the 75 km and had a blast. One of the best events you can do in Toronto imo. Thanks again to 'buzzers that chipped in. We raised a couple grand and change for Baycrest and the event raised a poopload. We heal together.

Does he change the results of the Florida series?
I honestly dont believe he would.
Bigger defense is on my wish list.
But simply no cap for helly.
- Fakepartofme

Maybe.

I don't think Brad is going to make additions based solely on the question of "does this make us win against Florida?"

Your inner troll popped up with the playoffs crack. Do better man.
- shack67

Hey, I'm getting jabbed, it's only fair I jab back.

Rarely can you wholly blame the goaltending for our losses since the rebuild started in earnest.

2017 to Washington in Game 6; Goalie had a GSAx of +0.36 - their goalie was 1.12
2018 to Boston in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of -3.16 - their goalie was 1.72
2019 to Boston in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 2.45 - their goalie was 1.58
2020 to Columbus in Game 5; Goalie had a GSAx of -0.57 - their goalie was 1.88
2021 to Montreal in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 0.35 - their goalie was 0.58
2022 to Tampa in Game 7; Goalie had a GSAx of 0.95 - their goalie was 2.04

The trend is that the offense isn't getting it done, but also their goalie outshines ours when it matters consistently, except for the 5-1 loss to Boston in 2019.

As we've all said, Bobrovsky has been exception, but this series was determined by 4 one goal games. The goaltending from Woll was pretty good, but a game breaker like Hellebuyck literally could have changed that outcome and duelled with Bobrovsky at a much higher level.

Game 1, Florida 4-2
Leafs xGF: 4.46, xGA: 2.47. Actual GA: 4;net: -1.53

Game 2, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 4.03, xGA: 3.44. Actual GA: 3; net: -0.44

Game 3, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 2.51, xGA: 3.45. Actual GA: 3; net: 0.45

Game 4, Toronto 2-1
Leafs xGF: 2.48, xGA: 2.39. Actual GA: 2; net: 1.39

Game 5, Florida 3-2
Leafs xGF: 4.26, xGA: 4.05. Actual GA: 3; net: 1.05

I remember how far CuJo and Belfour carried us when the skaters weren't doing their jobs. I'd like that type of goaltending again.
- Monkeypunk

Let's not lose sight of the 40M or so the Leafs have invested in 'elite offense' that simply hasn't got it done in all of these close playoff games through these years you have provided goaltending stats for.

If Toronto didn't have the much of an investment in this elite offense than I'd be all in on a elite goalie and the argument that he would make the difference. Look at the teams you have listed stats for and tell me which of them is (supposed to be) offensively better than the Leafs?

The closest 2 teams are Tampa and Boston but again as I said earlier they have star players taking less to help the greater good & it's still arguable that the Leafs SHOULD be better offensively than both.

Florida and Montreal are a perfect storm of a goalie on a heater but a far less offensively talented team - the Leafs elite scoring (lack of ability to do so when the chips are down) is far more to blame for playoff failures than the goaltending to me and it's not even close.

So for those who want this elite/ superstar goalie - how? And at what cost? And are you all going to be fine if the new 10M goalie sucks ass for 4 solid years before he has a cinderella and record setting playoff run?

My spidey senses tell me no.

It's all irrelevant anyway, no way the new GM is getting a year of Helly and then having to move a huge piece to keep him or watching him walk. I'd be shocked if the Leafs don't end up with some combo of what they have in their system now or did last year (if they can re-sign Sammy on the cheap) to start the season.

Hey, I'm getting jabbed, it's only fair I jab back.



- Scabeh

but you just jabbed them in the balls

So how many people on here had Boston, Tampa and Colorado out in the first round and Vegas and Florida in the final? I'm gonna subscribe to their hot takes from now on.

His playoff record is 40GP - 17 Wins and 23 Losses.

Blame the team in front of him all you like (because that's the predictable 'but' response) however are the Leafs a better performing playoff team than the Jets in the years Hellebuyck has been their goalie?

You may not use a 'single series" but I was talking about this entire playoff first of all and second of all I was talking about Bob's performance since he signed his 10M contract.

How far from 10M per year do you think Hellebuyck will be asking when his is a UFA at the end of next season?

The Leafs don't have the ability to sink a bunch of money into the goaltending position AND retain AM, MM, Nylander, JT, Reilly AND have anything other than plugs filling holes for the most part. They are already in a tough spot with what they have invested on the players under contract / needing new contracts that they want to keep so trading away things they need like picks, cap space or reasonable priced serviceable players for a year of Hellebuyck wold be a terrible move IMO.

Goaltending was not and is not the biggest wart with this team - the thought that it is and there is some magic bullet that can be obtained that will cover up all the issues in other parts of this team is BS pure and simple, it's far too unpredictable.

Riding a super expensive goalie to a Cup didn't work for the Habs when they rode Price to the finals and Florida is A LOT better than the Habs were but it may not even work out for them either.
- Cush29

Vaselevsky and his 9.5M cap hit says HI.

And other than the last series against Vegas Helly has been fantastic in every other series. The higher odds you have for a goalie playing well in a series the better odds you have in winning.

Not sure how much he will ask for, but he wants to play for a contender as he stated a month ago. Bob did go to the highest bidder and not a great team at the time.

but you just jabbed them in the balls
- Symba007

Hey, if the referee doesn't see it....

They don't call anything in the playoffs anyway.

Bearing in mind that the Leafs were better than Florida this year, Tampa last year, and the Habs the year before - but lost in each year to a top tier goalie because our goalie didn't match their goalie - especially when it mattered.

Having a league average goalie in net would suffice - BUT - then we need a better defense at preventing HD chances against. If we're going to roll out a mobile transition defense, then we need a last line of defense goaltender. If we remake the defense, then we can underspend on goaltending.
- Monkeypunk

Sure or we need the guys we pay 10M or so each to score when the chips are down.

That being said I agree on the defensive needs and would prefer that as the fix because I don't see much certainty in the ability to find the next Cujo or Belfour (Helly hasn't proven to be it based on his Jets playoff results so why do we think he will suddenly find it in Toronto?) or Bob who goes on a run after sucking ass for 10M per year for 4 years.

but you just jabbed them in the balls
- Symba007

And he’s in a Leaf thread

Man you guys spend a lot of time in here.