Yeah no.

Muzzin most certainly would help move the deal along though.

Coyotes want to bring in cap and move out money.

If they do move Keller they will most certainly want to do it with a team that can do this for them.

Don't be jealous the Leafs are in a position to bring in good players to a good team
- Santo_44

My guess is Keller stays there, at least until the season begins.

I don't know what the Leafs have done that could possibly make me jealous tbh.

My guess is Keller stays there, at least until the season begins.

I don't know what the Leafs have done that could possibly make me jealous tbh.

- Scabeh

I remember watching a bottom 5 to 10 team.

It (frank)ing sucks, I am surprised you are around as much as you are Good on ya tbh

I remember watching a bottom 5 to 10 team.

It (frank)ing sucks, I am surprised you are around as much as you are Good on ya tbh
- Santo_44

It wasn't so bad until decembre because we could see our young players get better or play important roles and have relative success.

Then they all got injured and we had to watch more of Hoffman on the powerplay so the shift has been "when the hell is the draft?" since then.

Thank god it's finally around the corner.

And I'm around because I actually love talking about hockey and this is the best thread to do that.

Wait, he said he wasnt going to be a gm anywhere else.

How could this be!!
- Fakepartofme

the man is allowed to change his mind.

It wasn't so bad until decembre because we could see our young players get better or play important roles and have relative success.

Then they all got injured and we had to watch more of Hoffman on the powerplay so the shift has been "when the hell is the draft?" since then.

Thank god it's finally around the corner.

And I'm around because I actually love talking about hockey and this is the best thread to do that.
- Scabeh

Before the leafs drafted Matthews I think I watched maybe 20 full games that season. I know I can't do that anymore.

I notice a few of my Habs friends have been latching onto the leafs the last few years. They listen to (frank)ing overdrive ffs

If/when the leafs are poop again I like to disconnect a bit, its a good break.

It's May and I'm bored waiting for the stupid draft
- Aaron_85

26 days or so

Go Leafs Go. This is the conclusion I have come to.

Not at the detriment of the organization.

The counterargument to that seems to be that this isn't a detrimental time, people of that mindset are missing the bus in a big way:

The coveted Mirtle who gets referenced here on the regular:

"It was nothing like the current moment for the Leafs, when a series of franchise-altering decisions need to be made (or not) and need to be made in almost no time, all by someone coming in (almost certainly) from outside the organization."

"The next Leafs GM is going to presumably arrive in early June and in a matter of weeks will need to address a number of priorities which include:

-Making a decision on the head coach, which means keeping Sheldon Keefe or hiring a replacement

-Convincing Matthews to sign an extension

-Determining whether a star trade involving one of William Nylander or Mitch Marner makes any sense

-Trading one of those stars and doing it before July 1 when they gain control over the process

- Extending Nylander as soon as July 1, or not

-Filling numerous holes in the roster, either through free agency or trade, including a No. 2 centre and top-four defenceman

-Finding a way out from the Matt Murray contract

-Signing Ilya Samsonov

-Leading the Leafs at the draft with an unfamiliar staff

-Addressing the captaincy, or not"

The idea that this is incredibly poor timing is not a secret, anywhere.

Shanahan making the decision to fire the GM without any potential replacement at play in a time all these decisions need to be made and there's an incredibly short runway to do so, is in fact a decision made on a whim at the detriment of the organization.

Fact: the best GM on the open market who may be available to hire right now is the individual Shanahan fired.
- joel878

I think pending consultations with the existing scouting staff, Pridham, and Shanahan, most new GM's will come in with most of those decisions already pretty much made.
Most of the internal bloodletting will happen in the months following, after he/she interviews everybody.
It's not like any real candidate is going to start his/her thought process on day one of the job.
In fact, if they show up for an interview without a pretty thorough grasp of the organizations assets, I doubt they are going to get a second interview.

I get the angst. I get the anger one way or another depending on who's fault you think it is, based on the information none of us really has.
I don't get why most of the people in the pro-Dubas camp, think the guy that hired Dubas, has suddenly become an idiot.

"Discussion" between you and 90% of the people on here ends the same way.

You're the common denominator.
- GreatGigInTheSky

true dat

90% of people out of 3 of the same people yes, join the 3 if you'd like. You'll fit in.
- Santo_44

as Dozzer said and I quote "take it to PMs as the rest of us are tired of this BS."

I always agree with your suggestions Sir, we have the same ideas.

Besides money/probability of getting said players, this would be my kind of STRONG line up. Thoughts?

Knies, Matthews, Wilson
Myles Wood, Tavares, Marner
Motte, Mantha, Jarnkrok
Lafferty, Holmberg, Hathaway

McCabe, Soucy
Graves, Brodie
Rielly, Schenn

Samsonov/Lyon
Woll

This guy gets it!
Barb for GM 👍
- mr.sir

Is this the part where I accept the contract or go on the news and say I'm not sure I want the job??

That is a kick ass line up though. Your suggestions are always on point.

(Gotta boner typing it out. Might even check the Cap hit later so I can dream and tug one out a second time based in kinda reality. )

Honestly, it's not like what needs to be done in the offseason by the Toronto Maple Leafs is the Manhattan Project or something. The Matthews contract will take 15 minutes.

All the rumours connecting Dubas to an Ottawa ownership bidding group is coming from the Toronto hockey media. Frank Seravelli goes as far as to say the Ottawa roster and potential would be far more appealing to Dubas than Pittsburgh. Is this just smoke or has anyone actually been able to connect the dots between Dubas and one of the bid groups?

true dat
- dmnted

1/3

Honestly, it's not like what needs to be done in the offseason by the Toronto Maple Leafs is the Manhattan Project or something. The Matthews contract will take 15 minutes.
- Zezel

Sounds like alot of time to read and sign a contract.

1/3
- Santo_44

3/3

No no there's the other 3000 accounts of what happened by Seraveilli, HB posters, and twitter bots.

Oh and of course CJ who suggested that he spoke the the Core 4 directly.

Here's how the next 4 weeks roll out ...

First week of June - more crying about Shannydo v. Dubbydo;
Second week of June - Leafs hire a vet GM - despair will heighten;
Third week of June - Leafs get to work - New GM does 'things' and HB crashes daily due to volume of tears and/or cheers;
Final week of June - we'll obsess about the best 17 yr old player ever drafted at pick 28 and fight about whether buying out Murray was the best way to go;
First week of July - we'll obsess about the handful of new contracts - the consensus will be that they are either the best ever or the worst ever ...no in between;
The balance of summer until camp - Go Jays .....HB reduced to 6 posters sharing complaints;

It's inevitable ...just enjoy the ride.
- The Law

Noting that right now, history is being written by the victor.

Kyle Dubas doesn't have the media's ear and he'd be wise not to use it if he did. All accounts these days are coming from the Leafs and most reporting is going to echo those accounts if they want to continue to have favourable access and so on.

The only thing I would say is that Shanahan called it the framework for a deal based on conversations he had with his agent. If it was a final deal, it wouldn't have been a framework. Framework is still within the realm of negotiation.

As I said in another post, it's moot - but that's why I get irritated. It felt like a bad faith maneuver - but the new guy can set the new direction and tone when they start.

Noting that right now, history is being written by the victor.

Kyle Dubas doesn't have the media's ear and he'd be wise not to use it if he did. All accounts these days are coming from the Leafs and most reporting is going to echo those accounts if they want to continue to have favourable access and so on.

The only thing I would say is that Shanahan called it the framework for a deal based on conversations he had with his agent. If it was a final deal, it wouldn't have been a framework. Framework is still within the realm of negotiation.

As I said in another post, it's moot - but that's why I get irritated. It felt like a bad faith maneuver - but the new guy can set the new direction and tone when they start.
- Monkeypunk

The only way this is a complete L is if the new GM comes and trades Marner or Nylander for a 2nd liner, a 3rd liner and a late 1st like some have been suggesting.

We should be good.

Go Leafs Go. This is the conclusion I have come to.
- Zezel

So much talk about Dubas and if he or the Leafs were at fault for him leaving.

From what we know, Dubas agreed in principle to a contract. He then publicly stated he wasn't sure if he wanted to continue being a GM for personal/family reasons. BS already stated he was blown away when he saw that presser - caught him by shock since he thought they had a deal. Then Dubas reneged on the deal and demanded more then what he agreed too....
How do we know that there wasn't already a lot of negotiating between Dubas and the Leafs to get to that deal they had in place?

Dubas handled himself very poorly from what we do know. This, coming from a GM with a huge amount of talent on his team (most of which he did not draft) that has only made it out of the first round once in 5yrs. He was in no position to try and strong arm the Leafs and BS did what almost any business would have done, fired the malcontent employee.

Again, this is based on what we know....there could be behind the scene things we don't know but based on what we do know, he was rightfully fired.

I say this and at the same point am not happy - as I liked Dubas and really did want him to stay. I just wanted the Leafs to fire Keefe's ass!
- Cooshie

I see this a lot and it bothers me _every single time_. No one is indebted to the organization to the extent that they do not have a right to negotiate their situation. The negotiations can be declined or met partway or met - but Dubas, just like everyone else in the Leafs organization including the players and staffers have a right - just like you or I in every day life - to negotiate their situation.

So to this point: Did he have enough success? No he didn't. For that he could have and probably should have been fired. Attempting to negotiate your contract should not be merit for dismissal.

Sounds like alot of time to read and sign a contract.
- Scabeh

Lawyers are speed readers. There's no mystery with a player like Matthews. It's not some complicated negotiation. 10 minutes, if that.

The only way this is a complete L is if the new GM comes and trades Marner or Nylander for a 2nd liner, a 3rd liner and a late 1st like some have been suggesting.

We should be good.
- Santo_44

No exec is gonna make a Leaf fan-type Marner or Nylander trade, 99% of which are nonsensical.

The only way this is a complete L is if the new GM comes and trades Marner or Nylander for a 2nd liner, a 3rd liner and a late 1st like some have been suggesting.

We should be good.
- Santo_44

As I said in the other post - I don't agree with the why/how of dismissing Dubas, but I'm not necessarily against a change in philosophy to some extent. I think Shanahan has been here all through this rebuild and it's gone somewhere. Lest every Leaf fan forget that they have sort of, kind of, a little for a while, tried rebuilds in the past and then tried to cheat the system and fallen on their faces every time (you could almost argue that's what Tavares was here, but let's leave that dog lie for now).

They've been a sustainable team. Maybe new leadership can push the right buttons and get the right coaching to push it forward.

Everything is a delicate balance when you're dealing with younger talent, but the guys the Leafs have to deal with now (Nylander, Marner) are basically reaching their prime years. Don't trade to get older, don't trade for the future and don't trade for the sake of a trade/change. It has to be a hockey trade that addresses a critical need.

No exec is gonna make a Leaf fan-type Marner or Nylander trade, 99% of which are nonsensical.
- Zezel

Then the Leafs are more (frank)ed than we think.

This roster doesn't get it done. It needs a tweak to the Core 4+1 and it comes down to Marner or Nylander.

I believe 3 things at minimum have to happen:

1. Matthews signed.
2. One of Marner, Nylander, JT traded to balance out the roster with some playoff style grit.
3. Coaching change. Keefe is NOT and has not gotten enough out of this roster of talent. And, some of his coaching decisions are plain old dumb.

If the new GM candidate is not up to those 3 very important tasks, that person should not be hired.

Not a tear down, rebuild or any of that nonsense but a throuple of important and very strategic moves (that take balls) and then some key UFA signings and Leafs could see playoff progress IMO.

Soooo.....

Anyone still think Dubas wasn't posturing and negotiating through his presser?