I remember narratives of Sid and Geno not being good leaders starting to develop around 2013/2014...Matthews and Marner are excellent and they are much better in all zones of the rink than you think/know. Marner is one of the of their top PKers every game and is excellent there.

The Leafs lost to a team that looks like it just finds ways to win no matter what. Almost like the 2017 Penguins except these Panthers are playing better overall hockey than those Penguins were for the most part. Taking the first two games from Canes in their barn is pretty nuts.. Almost as nuts as coming back to beat the all time Bruins after being down 3 games to 1.

If the Leafs and Panthers goalies were switched the Leafs would of been in the ECF. Sub. 900 SV% (first 3 games of series, 3-0 Panthers) just don't cut it, especially when the opposition's goalie is doing 945 some games never below 916 in any game and 961 in game 5 hahah... I think Bob has to be Conn Smythe front runner right now..
- MattStrat

They are excellent hockey players. They just don’t have the extra level to go to that Sid and Geno did in their primes. Both Sid and Geno could will you a win. Those guys can’t.

The pressure to win a Cup in Pittsburgh shouldn’t even be there. You need a GM to prepare this club for the end of the Sid/Malkin/Letang era .
To me, an outsider, the Penguins need to let these Hall of Famers finish their time with the club with dignity and gear up for a short rebuild afterwards. What other options are there but the toughest route ? Try and remain competitive without mortgaging the future. Quietly develope defencemen so they are ready in 4-5 years when the high draft picks start rolling in again so they don’t end up in the slow, painful and futile process that Edmonton, Buffalo and Toronto employed 12 years ago with all these great 18 year old forwards and little else.

The pressure to win a Cup in Pittsburgh shouldn’t even be there. You need a GM to prepare this club for the end of the Sid/Malkin/Letang era .
To me, an outsider, the Penguins need to let these Hall of Famers finish their time with the club with dignity and gear up for a short rebuild afterwards. What other options are there but the toughest route ? Try and remain competitive without mortgaging the future. Quietly develope defencemen so they are ready in 4-5 years when the high draft picks start rolling in again so they don’t end up in the slow, painful and futile process that Edmonton, Buffalo and Toronto employed 12 years ago with all these great 18 year old forwards and little else.
- HonkyTonkMan

If you want a short rebuild you sell off everything now. Only way to get picks prospects needed. Keeping the gang together will only prolong that rebuild. See Detroit.

They had a chance to go strong with the deals Malkin and letang took but hex blew it.

I think fsg needs to decide which path to take and guide the new gm down that road.

Wasn’t there an argument earlier how faceoffs were meaningless? Game winning play came off a draw last night.

The pressure to win a Cup in Pittsburgh shouldn’t even be there. You need a GM to prepare this club for the end of the Sid/Malkin/Letang era .
To me, an outsider, the Penguins need to let these Hall of Famers finish their time with the club with dignity and gear up for a short rebuild afterwards. What other options are there but the toughest route ? Try and remain competitive without mortgaging the future. Quietly develope defencemen so they are ready in 4-5 years when the high draft picks start rolling in again so they don’t end up in the slow, painful and futile process that Edmonton, Buffalo and Toronto employed 12 years ago with all these great 18 year old forwards and little else.
- HonkyTonkMan

The pressure to win a Cup ended a few years ago. Exactly when is up for debate.

I agree with your way of thinking. Keep your picks and stack the organization with young defensmen and a goalie or two. Bring in cheap UFA's to fill the current roster. The one place we've had success is bringing in UFA's on one year contracts and having tham produce.

Yeah, that was the biggest thing, taking such a gamble on Murray and Samsonov. At least get one semi-reliable guy in there.
- Hockey66

Which guy was available last year that wanted to be in Toronto who was semi reliable? Campbell lost his starting job in Edmonton. Keumper didn't want to go to Toronto. Talbot shat the bed in Ottawa. I think Husso was available but he went 3.11 gaa and under .900 sv%.

Samsonov played 42 games and had 2.33 and .919. He was reliable enough. Murray was fine too except he's a walking band aid.

I think Dubas will find a soft spot to land at some point and do quite well wherever he goes. He doesn't get enough recognition for how he treats people in his organization. He turned Toronto into a place agents would tell their players to goto, especially if they wanted to re-ignite their career or man, just have a great health staff to check out your injuries and see how to get them better. As much as it's a high pressure job in Pitts if they want to win with the star players getting older he could possibly do it. I mean, he improved the leafs every year he was GM to be a record setting Toronto team in the regular season. Playoffs became something else.

The story coming out is he wanted autonomy and clearly Shanahan did not. It's rumoured Shanahan had more say in things being done or not done than anyone originally thought. I doubt the leafs cared about money. They are paying 6 million to Babcock to not coach for them, they took Horton's uninsured contract for 7 million to get rid of Clarkson. No way they cared about an extra 2 million.

They are excellent hockey players. They just don’t have the extra level to go to that Sid and Geno did in their primes. Both Sid and Geno could will you a win. Those guys can’t.
- Grinder47

Yeah but also see Ovi finally getting one at 31... There were narratives going around about the Pens window being closed back in 2015, that Sid would never get another cup....they were 12th in the east in February of 2016... Sid 29 and Geno 30 win one that season..then win again the next season 30 and 31. That 2016 cup was just so fvcking satisfying because of all the shade I'd heard tossed about them because of the piss poor disappointing playoffs they had from 2010 to 2015, 6 straight seasons. Yeah, making the conference finals is pretty dman good... But then getting swept in them?
... Totally erases that accomplishment hahah especially when you look at the roster they had.

Just think it's way too premature to be saying those two won't get it done. Matthews had 11 points in 11 games, Marner had 14 in 11...despite running into a guy having a Conn Smythe campaign in net hahah. Leafs had a great team with weak goaltending, Florida is just something else these playoffs, featuring top form Bob.

Pens requested permission to speak with Dubas.