Sorry for my long response LA. I totally read your question wrong. lol

Nylander has been their most dangerous player to me. Matthews is being Bobbed to me. Marner has been invisible and so has their captain.

Keefe keeps running ROR and Tavares together and is missing a chance to have one of those two center a bumslaying line. Like the Panthers are doing with Tkachuk.

Its liking look at Timo Meier's playoff numbers and thinking he isn't playing well. Cause I get its a results matter thing but Meier is getting a poop ton of chances but just can't get one to go for him. it happens.
- Elbows15

Well Meier is paid to score right? So he’s not playing well because he’s not producing. Lot of those shots were right at rangers goalie round 1.

Easy to pad the stats playing for crap teams but getting dealt and producing….he’s been horrific.

Nylander has been their most dangerous player to me. Matthews is being Bobbed to me. Marner has been invisible and so has their captain.
G
Keefe keeps running ROR and Tavares together and is missing a chance to have one of those two center a bumslaying line. Like the Panthers are doing with Tkachuk.


Its liking look at Timo Meier's playoff numbers and thinking he isn't playing well. Cause I get its a results matter thing but Meier is getting a poop ton of chances but just can't get one to go for him. it happens.
- Elbows15

You of all people know what Nylander is doing out there. He has been dangerous when he has the puck in open ice but he’s not going to the tough areas and he’s invisible when he doesn’t have the puck. Marner has been brutal, and you know how I used to stick up for him. Tavares is slower than Handzus and not as effective in the playoffs.

Don't forget that Savard was MAYBE 5' 10". I think he did pretty well. And at 180 pounds, Bobby Hull was a beast!
- bjphawkfan

Bedard height won't be an issue. He is far from slight. Like Savvy, Bedard has some fiesty to him.

How is 34 million half a cap of 90 million? It’s not even half the cap of 87.5. Including Jones and bedard at 10 which wouldn’t happen for years done the road.

So if it’s matthews at 27 yrs old at 15 million or another, wait for it (pray you develop another legit top 6 complimentary player) you’re paying the same. Same kid will want bedard money. If he’s worth a sniff of matthews.

There’s no magical savings here and if the hawks do keep bedard up here odds are they won’t finish anywhere close to where they did this year. So maybe you get a top 10 pick and pray.

So I’d love to hear how hawks are going to get another franchise f building block
Here from all
The bean counters.

Please enlighten me.
- SteveRain

Agree to disagree Steve, you don’t see my point and I don’t see yours.

Keep on drafting. We don't need a Hossa type until we know we are one piece shy. We need Bolland's AND Versteeg's. We need Sharps and Ladd's. Most of all we need a Crawford or Esposito. We need kids to grow together as a team. I would love to have Toews or Seabrook behind the bench. And not to get off subject but...that was a no on the sliders?
- bjphawkfan

Sharp and Ladd were not drafted by the Hawks.

Nylander has been their most dangerous player to me. Matthews is being Bobbed to me. Marner has been invisible and so has their captain.

Keefe keeps running ROR and Tavares together and is missing a chance to have one of those two center a bumslaying line. Like the Panthers are doing with Tkachuk.


Its like looking at Timo Meier's playoff numbers and thinking he isn't playing well. Cause I get its a results matter thing but Meier is getting a poop ton of chances but just can't get one to go for him. it happens.
- Elbows15

Agreed. Toronto organization is just stupid. From shanahan to dumbas to their meatball coach and I wonder how the bearded lady near the penalty box is handling this series?

They need to be retooled instead of just tweaked with more cement shoes d men and more crap goalies.

Well Meier is paid to score right? So he’s not playing well because he’s not producing. Lot of those shots were right at rangers goalie round 1.

Easy to pad the stats playing for crap teams but getting dealt and producing….he’s been horrific.
- SteveRain

Scoring goals is random and you should be aware of that as a long time fan.

Sorry for my long response LA. I totally read your question wrong. lol
- Elbows15

Ha ha no problem

Sharp and Ladd were not drafted by the Hawks.
- LAHawk

Neither was Versteeg.

You of all people know what Nylander is doing out there. He has been dangerous when he has the puck in open ice but he’s not going to the tough areas and he’s invisible when he doesn’t have the puck. Marner has been brutal, and you know how I used to stick up for him. Tavares is slower than Handzus and not as effective in the playoffs.
- paulr

IDK, Nylander has been far down the list of Toronto's issue to me. First and foremost is their coach if you ask me. He refusal to even change his lines is crazy.

Agree to disagree Steve, you don’t see my point and I don’t see yours.
- paulr

My point is simple.

They need to have another high end skill
At least 2 to play with bedard and fill
Out rest of the roster.

I am reluctant to waste draft capital to move up when you are rebuilding. Makes no sense. If you get to July of of 2025 and you don’t have the 1b for bedard and if matthews is there I sign him.

What I don’t get is all the whining of signing him
Because even if you are 2 years away at that point until
Your window opens he’s still younger than what hossa was at thr time he was signed in 2009. Even 2 years into his deal.

That’s my point. You have cap space. You have tons of picks. They are set up to pivot if they have to.

Scoring goals is random and you should be aware of that as a long time fan.
- Elbows15

I still play and to an extent it is but not for guys who want to be paid big money.

What May be random is his last year numbers. Grier is going to win that deal.

I think everyone needs to watch things play out.

We only have one real piece, and it is a BIG ONE.
Other pieces are in development they need to step up asap.

This draft has a few players ready to play even though they are not ranked super high like Nate Danielson.

All those 2023 picks WILL be used if possible to get the guys they truly favor as draft picks...

So we wait as our kids kick in, place as many "good NHLers" as we can on the ice and as the system SUCCEEDS, then is the time to add one big offensive piece, a defensive piece and then and a meat n potatoes forward too.
This isn't as difficult this early on.
The pressure is relieved b/c tickets are selling and there doesn't have to be a getting to know (choose Adam fantilli, Carlsson, Will smith) articles ad nauseam by their organization staff to sell the fans own their upside...the kid with one arrived.

They really don't have to do anything if they are only worried about the attendance and getting to the playoffs after all the 2022 and 2023 kids start arriving.
To me NEW JERSEY's return to contention happened when the youth and the signings finally put it together. That is what WILL HAPPEN (or not) with Davidson's build..

Getting to the Cup Final is a much more complicated goal that builds off all this earlier stuff.

I think everyone needs to watch things play out.

We only have one real piece, and it is a BIG ONE.
Other pieces are in development they need to step up asap.

This draft has a few players ready to play even though they are not ranked super high like Nate Danielson.

All those 2023 picks WILL be used if possible to get the guys they truly favor as draft picks...

So we wait as our kids kick in, place as many "good NHLers" as we can on the ice and as the system SUCCEEDS, then is the time to add one big offensive piece, a defensive piece and then and a meat n potatoes forward too.
This isn't as difficult this early on.
The pressure is relieved b/c tickets are selling and there doesn't have to be a getting to know (choose Adam fantilli, Carlsson, Will smith) articles ad nauseam by their organization staff to sell the fans own their upside...the kid with one arrived.

They really don't have to do anything if they are only worried about the attendance and getting to the playoffs after all the 2022 and 2023 kids start arriving.
To me NEW JERSEY's return to contention happened when the youth and the signings finally put it together. That is what WILL HAPPEN (or not) with Davidson's build..

Getting to the Cup Final is a much more complicated goal that builds off all this earlier stuff.
- wiz1901

He's the type of guy I could see KD drafting at #19/#20. Captain of his junior team, plays well with and without the puck, and he works hard.

Will he be around at #19/#20 or will KD need to move up to get him?

They are proving to not be built for the playoffs. They cut corners in goal and d.

How many years did their goalie and d get outplayed? I mean they sign these depleted old men like giordani (spell) to a cheap deal and wonder why the get bounced? Revolving door in goal. Latest guy they signed Murray, is their 3rd option now.

They have yet to solve that and will not adapt and people wonder why they can’t advance?
- SteveRain

I agree Steve, but $40M on four players doesn’t give them much choice, there lies the problem.

Any opinions on signing Michael Bunting for a few years? I know he a meathead at times, but has put up some decent numbers the past couple of years.

TNT loses an analyst.. Keith Jones named Flyers president.

Edit- Read Eddie O was the other finalist for the position.

I think everyone needs to watch things play out.

We only have one real piece, and it is a BIG ONE.
Other pieces are in development they need to step up asap.

This draft has a few players ready to play even though they are not ranked super high like Nate Danielson.

All those 2023 picks WILL be used if possible to get the guys they truly favor as draft picks...

So we wait as our kids kick in, place as many "good NHLers" as we can on the ice and as the system SUCCEEDS, then is the time to add one big offensive piece, a defensive piece and then and a meat n potatoes forward too.
This isn't as difficult this early on.
The pressure is relieved b/c tickets are selling and there doesn't have to be a getting to know (choose Adam fantilli, Carlsson, Will smith) articles ad nauseam by their organization staff to sell the fans own their upside...the kid with one arrived.

They really don't have to do anything if they are only worried about the attendance and getting to the playoffs after all the 2022 and 2023 kids start arriving.
To me NEW JERSEY's return to contention happened when the youth and the signings finally put it together. That is what WILL HAPPEN (or not) with Davidson's build..

Getting to the Cup Final is a much more complicated goal that builds off all this earlier stuff.
- wiz1901

Mr. Wiz they only have 2 NHL pieces but they are loaded with high picks and cap space which are extremely valuable if they use them correctly and hit on 50% or more of the first rounders and 25% or more of the 2nd rounders.

As for Matthews, if Matthews agent comes to Davidson and tells him Matthews is willing to sign with the Hawks, the Hawks have to listen. Matthews will still be in his prime and is a top 10 NHL player.

It is not his fault that Toronto's GM has failed to secured a defense that can move the puck and hit forwards in stride. Luke Scheen is on the first pair. Geo, Hull and McCabe are just average or below average guys. Barrie has not handled the playoff pressure.

Lets hope our boy GM is taking notes.

Hawks had a pretty top heavy team from 2009-now and it did OK.......

Ok...so if they draft somebody next year and get lucky and get the 2nd or 3rd overall pick and said player becomes another super star.....they;ll have to pay said player almost an identical wage.

If people think you are going to get away with just Bedard and then have an army of guys making 6 million....you can enjoy 1st and 2nd round exits yearly.
- SteveRain

Firstly Kane and Toews were not paid that 10.5 per in 2009. That took 4 yrs? Also when gthey did get those contracts it was offset by the value contracts of core pieces of Keith, Seabs and even Hammer.

I'd also point out that LA won two cups without being top heavy and no real superstars other than Kopitar and Doughty. So they showed you can have two stars and, in your words, "If people think you are going to get away with just Bedard and then have an army of guys making 6 million....you can enjoy 1st and 2nd round exits yearly" and win cups.

RainMan, I'm not adverse to paying big bucks to a UFA to add what the pipeline doesn't have but to me timing is crucial when that happens. I just think signing Matthws in two yrs to a 15 mil per contract before guys like Korchinski, Kaiser, Vlasiic, maybe Phillips are ready to carry the load and the Nazars, Greens, maybe Rinzel/Ludwinski/Hayes/Allen types (and a surprise or two) are up and getting their feet wet to help is the wrong way to go cuz the timing isn't right.

Again, KD being on the inside since 2009 might have different views on how to build and win AND satisfy the cap, to SUSTAIN and keep a window open as long as possible. I think he's watching the SEA, FLA, NJ, TOR, TB, CAR squads and comparing cap situations, roster construction and even style of play as he "evolves" as a manager.

I think everyone needs to watch things play out.

We only have one real piece, and it is a BIG ONE.
Other pieces are in development they need to step up asap.

This draft has a few players ready to play even though they are not ranked super high like Nate Danielson.

All those 2023 picks WILL be used if possible to get the guys they truly favor as draft picks...

So we wait as our kids kick in, place as many "good NHLers" as we can on the ice and as the system SUCCEEDS, then is the time to add one big offensive piece, a defensive piece and then and a meat n potatoes forward too.
This isn't as difficult this early on.
The pressure is relieved b/c tickets are selling and there doesn't have to be a getting to know (choose Adam fantilli, Carlsson, Will smith) articles ad nauseam by their organization staff to sell the fans own their upside...the kid with one arrived.

They really don't have to do anything if they are only worried about the attendance and getting to the playoffs after all the 2022 and 2023 kids start arriving.
To me NEW JERSEY's return to contention happened when the youth and the signings finally put it together. That is what WILL HAPPEN (or not) with Davidson's build..

Getting to the Cup Final is a much more complicated goal that builds off all this earlier stuff.
- wiz1901

Mr. Wiz

Have you ever gone back and looked at the draft 7 or 8 years later and reviewed how the players were described and how they actually performed?

For instance, 2016 was the Matthews draft. Of the 210 guys drafted which as I recall you had analysis on all of them, only 15 players ended up playing 300 NHL games up till now. That is 11 from the first round, 3 from the 2nd round and 1 6th rounder.

In 2015, the most hyped draft yet, the McDavid draft, 25 of the 210 players drafted ended up playing 300 games. 20 of the 1st rounders, 2 of the 2nd rounders, 1 in the 3rd, 5th and 6th.

Just goes to show that building exclusively through the draft is a very long shot. Bowman's scouts pulled some amazing FA out of Europe over the years. Let's hope that in the Hawks destruction they are have the right people in place.

Any opinions on signing Michael Bunting for a few years? I know he a meathead at times, but has put up some decent numbers the past couple of years.
- boilermaker100

I'm a fan and think he fits KD's player profile. Speedy skater, high compete with a motor that doesn't quit, can slot up and down the lineup and pitches in offensively. I like Bunting.

Any opinions on signing Michael Bunting for a few years? I know he a meathead at times, but has put up some decent numbers the past couple of years.
- boilermaker100

Bunting wouldn't be a bad acquisition, but he wouldn't be at the top of my list.

Mr. Wiz

Have you ever gone back and looked at the draft 7 or 8 years later and reviewed how the players were described and how they actually performed?

For instance, 2016 was the Matthews draft. Of the 210 guys drafted which as I recall you had analysis on all of them, only 15 players ended up playing 300 NHL games up till now. That is 11 from the first round, 3 from the 2nd round and 1 6th rounder.

In 2015, the most hyped draft yet, the McDavid draft, 25 of the 210 players drafted ended up playing 300 games. 20 of the 1st rounders, 2 of the 2nd rounders, 1 in the 3rd, 5th and 6th.

Just goes to show that building exclusively through the draft is a very long shot. Bowman's scouts pulled some amazing FA out of Europe over the years. Let's hope that in the Hawks destruction they are have the right people in place.
- stevefrmglencoe

Nice work, here. No, you can't build from just the draft but you can't build without premium players who almost always come from the draft. Teams are not trading elite players.

Yes you can get elite players from free agency but they come at a really high price. You need to get players from everywhere but drafting is the core of building winners.

Firstly Kane and Toews were not paid that 10.5 per in 2009. That took 4 yrs? Also when gthey did get those contracts it was offset by the value contracts of core pieces of Keith, Seabs and even Hammer.

I'd also point out that LA won two cups without being top heavy and no real superstars other than Kopitar and Doughty. So they showed you can have two stars and, in your words, "If people think you are going to get away with just Bedard and then have an army of guys making 6 million....you can enjoy 1st and 2nd round exits yearly" and win cups.

RainMan, I'm not adverse to paying big bucks to a UFA to add what the pipeline doesn't have but to me timing is crucial when that happens. I just think signing Matthws in two yrs to a 15 mil per contract before guys like Korchinski, Kaiser, Vlasiic, maybe Phillips are ready to carry the load and the Nazars, Greens, maybe Rinzel/Ludwinski/Hayes/Allen types (and a surprise or two) are up and getting their feet wet to help is the wrong way to go cuz the timing isn't right.

Again, KD being on the inside since 2009 might have different views on how to build and win AND satisfy the cap, to SUSTAIN and keep a window open as long as possible. I think he's watching the SEA, FLA, NJ, TOR squads and comparing cap situations, roster construction and even style of play as he "evolves" as a manager.
- Mr Ricochet

KD was/is on the record saying he didn't want to get top heavy. He wanted "waves" of drafted players coming in. That was before Connor Bedard fell into his lap which has the potential to change everything. For now, only time will tell.