If the Hawks got Kaliyev I would be extatic. Guess you haven’t seen heard much about him, has worked hard on his defensive game. Only reason he didn’t play much was he was injured. Offensively think De Brinket. Lethal shot, finds the soft areas, has scored big at whatever level he has played.



- LAHawk

Seems to have a good compete level, motor and Kaliyev is 6ft 1in 190 lbs. Nice player who I doubt LA wants to move. But with cap issues who knows.

Every year over the 2 months of playoffs, people fall in love with 3rd and 4th line players and think they are the difference makers. This is how guys end up moving from the Cup Champions and sign huge deals that end up looking like boat anchors 10 games into the next season. Recent examples include the players that left Tampa and were desired but turned out to be just another guy.

Coleman, Goodrow and Shattenkirk are the best examples.
Palat is a better player but 5 years $30 million? Just another guy.
- stevefrmglencoe

So, don't build through the draft unless it is all top 10 picks, and don't sign players from winning organizations... How would you construct a team?

EDM has 7 first rounders in their forward ranks and four first rounders on their back end, and they are by no means a shoo in to win.

is anyone saying that you have to fill out Bedard's linemates with second round picks? You still have to ice the other three lines and two pairs.

You are right in saying that the odds are down on second round picks, but there is also no other real way to build a team than through the draft because of the salary cap. You need young players under control at low or at least reasonable cap hits to become and remain competitive.

Do teams have the occasional hits with players from overseas? Sure, but not exceedingly often (I'll give you Panarin, but are Kubalik and Suter really considered successes?). There are also very good players acquired through trades and FA, but long term, it is not sustainable because the math never works.
- Chunk

When the book is written on this era of hockey it is going to be the GM's that got guys signed long term early for below market or had a culture where guys took less than market to stay that were the best. An overlooked footnote of the Hawks winning era was Keith signing longterm at $5 million. If he had waited, Subban was making $9 million. That could have ruined the Hawks. Great move by the GM to sign him. I think no team with a player over $10 million has won the Cup in the Cap era yet. It will happen eventually. Marner has already made $65 million in the NHL.

Every year over the 2 months of playoffs, people fall in love with 3rd and 4th line players and think they are the difference makers. This is how guys end up moving from the Cup Champions and sign huge deals that end up looking like boat anchors 10 games into the next season. Recent examples include the players that left Tampa and were desired but turned out to be just another guy.

Coleman, Goodrow and Shattenkirk are the best examples.
Palat is a better player but 5 years $30 million? Just another guy.
- stevefrmglencoe

Aren't these examples of why draft and develop is the better way to go and forget the free agents?

Problem is that while waiting for players in the system to develop, even good ones, a lot of losing occurs. And GM's and coaches get fired right after the Owner becomes unhappy that his arena isn't sold out and he has no playoff gates.

Not sure I understand this post but like the statistics you post. Last I knew 35% of NHL players came thru the NCAA.

Again, don't understand your post but so much more to evaluating players/paths than goals scored. How bout games played in the NHL by NCAA players?
- Mr Ricochet

I was responding to your comment about the NCAA path. Someone will throw Makar in my face for sure but overall I think the Junior guys out perform in the NHL.

So, don't build through the draft unless it is all top 10 picks, and don't sign players from winning organizations... How would you construct a team?

EDM has 7 first rounders in their forward ranks and four first rounders on their back end, and they are by no means a shoo in to win.
- Chunk

Great goaltending makes great coaches and GMs. Niemi wasn't a great goalie but he was always solid the game after he was average and that was key. Crawford was Great -. I have not seen Commesso play in person. Not convinced we have the goaltending. I was pissed he did not play in the 2 Rockford playoff games I drove to. I saw him sitting in the players box and could not understan why he wasn't getting the start. I think we have some puck moving defensemen coming. Probably OK there. I don't think we are big and strong down the middle. Bedard is going to be almost unstoppable. Point per game from day 1 I think. Not much depth there. Wingers that go hard to the net? Have not seen enough of Nasar in person to know. Perhaps you do? To turn this franchise around, they are going to need Free Agents that want to come here and not just for an overmarket deal. They are going to need to sign their home grown guys early and long term. They are going to have to pull some european rabbits out of their hats. They are going to need top notch coaching that coaches each game like it is a game 7.

Aren't these examples of why draft and develop is the better way to go and forget the free agents?

Problem is that while waiting for players in the system to develop, even good ones, a lot of losing occurs. And GM's and coaches get fired right after the Owner becomes unhappy that his arena isn't sold out and he has no playoff gates.
- RickJ

Obviously it is hitting on top picks #1. Bedard will be that. Not sure if Reichel is another one.

As for developing, Tampa is considered the best developer of talent and it is legit.
Cooper is widely considered the best current coach in developement. One of his claims to fame is the Championship he won in the AHL in 2011 Norfold. The top 5 scorers on that team were Conacher, Smith, Tyler Johnson, Barberio and Panik. I am not a believer that a lot of top players get developed in the AHL. To me the needle movers are drafted in the top 15 and never play a game in the AHL. After the top 6 or so guys on a team the rest of the players are interchangable.

Wow, just realized my weekend away in Nashville for my wifes birthday is the day of the draft.

We get in around 10 am on Thursday. We are staying two blocks away from Bridgestone, anyone know how hard it is to get get tickets?

She won't like it, not sure I want to go there, but just in case, it would be cool to go.

I was at one NFL draft at Radio City, it was the year Jerry Angelo drafted Chris Williams out of Vanderbilt (Nashville coincidence?), so maybe its better I don't go.....


- vabeachbear

Don't worry, Nashville probably won't sell tickets to the draft to Chicago fans. But that's good for you since it will make the wifey happy.

When the book is written on this era of hockey it is going to be the GM's that got guys signed long term early for below market or had a culture where guys took less than market to stay that were the best.

- stevefrmglencoe

No doubt, signing a kid young to a long term deal that's value the for a team is a home run. But, they don't always work out and some GM's are rated by anchor contracts as well as good long term value deals.....

If you can get a future plus player signed at good value for 8 yrs instead of a bridge contract you have the player way below market value thru his prime yrs. Get a couple of those and you've set the franchise up well.

Boston stayed competitive for yrs too cuz Bergeron was signed for 8 yrs at 6.7 mil per in 2014 and Marchand for 6.1 per for 8 yrs in 2017! TB too with Stamkos and Hedman.

The swing CAR took on Kotkiniemi for 8 yrs at 4 mil for 8 yrs might be a beauty too.

Great goaltending makes great coaches and GMs. Niemi wasn't a great goalie but he was always solid the game after he was average and that was key. Crawford was Great -. I have not seen Commesso play in person. Not convinced we have the goaltending. I was pissed he did not play in the 2 Rockford playoff games I drove to. I saw him sitting in the players box and could not understan why he wasn't getting the start. I think we have some puck moving defensemen coming. Probably OK there. I don't think we are big and strong down the middle. Bedard is going to be almost unstoppable. Point per game from day 1 I think. Not much depth there. Wingers that go hard to the net? Have not seen enough of Nasar in person to know. Perhaps you do? To turn this franchise around, they are going to need Free Agents that want to come here and not just for an overmarket deal. They are going to need to sign their home grown guys early and long term. They are going to have to pull some european rabbits out of their hats. They are going to need top notch coaching that coaches each game like it is a game 7.
- stevefrmglencoe

Yep, need all of that. Building a Cup contender isn't easy or done overnight. The Hawks are like at 8 pm and there's a long way to go to 6 am.

I was responding to your comment about the NCAA path. Someone will throw Makar in my face for sure but overall I think the Junior guys out perform in the NHL.
- stevefrmglencoe

I do prefer the NCAA path just think you are undervaluing NCAA players and don't think Makar is an outlier. Just look at the U of MI rosters the last few yrs and almost all NTDP players play NCAA.

But there is no doubt Major Junior is still the #1 feeder for the NHL but it's slowly changing.. .....Used to have links of those stats, that you seem to overlook, but lost them. Maybe I'll dig a few up.

I was responding to your comment about the NCAA path. Someone will throw Makar in my face for sure but overall I think the Junior guys out perform in the NHL.
- stevefrmglencoe

I think you’re right, most of the best players come out of the CHL. But that’s changing, like you said Makar, Matthews, Toews and many others. But say you’re the father of a pretty good hockey player. He has a choice, play Junior or play in the NCAA and receive an education at the same time. Which do you guide him to? There’s absolutely no doubt where I want him. I want the back up of a good education in case he doesn’t make it.

Great goaltending makes great coaches and GMs. Niemi wasn't a great goalie but he was always solid the game after he was average and that was key. Crawford was Great -. I have not seen Commesso play in person. Not convinced we have the goaltending. I was pissed he did not play in the 2 Rockford playoff games I drove to. I saw him sitting in the players box and could not understan why he wasn't getting the start. I think we have some puck moving defensemen coming. Probably OK there. I don't think we are big and strong down the middle. Bedard is going to be almost unstoppable. Point per game from day 1 I think. Not much depth there. Wingers that go hard to the net? Have not seen enough of Nasar in person to know. Perhaps you do? To turn this franchise around, they are going to need Free Agents that want to come here and not just for an overmarket deal. They are going to need to sign their home grown guys early and long term. They are going to have to pull some european rabbits out of their hats. They are going to need top notch coaching that coaches each game like it is a game 7.
- stevefrmglencoe

Very much like your posts, Steve. Keep them coming especially stuff you see at RKF..........

No doubt building a good, let alone a cup winning, roster is a multi-pronged process full of land mines. But it all starts with scouting, evaluating then drafting and developing players. Everything else follows.

Have a thought on the rookie Dmen that should play with the Hawks next yr, especially Kaiser?

Every year over the 2 months of playoffs, people fall in love with 3rd and 4th line players and think they are the difference makers. This is how guys end up moving from the Cup Champions and sign huge deals that end up looking like boat anchors 10 games into the next season. Recent examples include the players that left Tampa and were desired but turned out to be just another guy.

Coleman, Goodrow and Shattenkirk are the best examples.
Palat is a better player but 5 years $30 million? Just another guy.
- stevefrmglencoe

That's not an answer; it's an evasion.

Find a Cup winner (or even contender) who doesn't have an important player drafted after the 1st round.

Obviously it is hitting on top picks #1. Bedard will be that. Not sure if Reichel is another one.

As for developing, Tampa is considered the best developer of talent and it is legit.
Cooper is widely considered the best current coach in developement. One of his claims to fame is the Championship he won in the AHL in 2011 Norfold.
- stevefrmglencoe[ The top 5 scorers on that team were Conacher, Smith, Tyler Johnson, Barberio and Panik. I am not a believer that a lot of top players get developed in the AHL. To me the needle movers are drafted in the top 15 and never play a game in the AHL. After the top 6 or so guys on a team the rest of the players are interchangable.

Cooper won championships everywhere he coached. NAHL, USHL, AHL, NHL. Dude can flat out evaluate and coach.

Great goaltending makes great coaches and GMs. Niemi wasn't a great goalie but he was always solid the game after he was average and that was key. Crawford was Great -. I have not seen Commesso play in person. Not convinced we have the goaltending. I was pissed he did not play in the 2 Rockford playoff games I drove to. I saw him sitting in the players box and could not understan why he wasn't getting the start. I think we have some puck moving defensemen coming. Probably OK there. I don't think we are big and strong down the middle. Bedard is going to be almost unstoppable. Point per game from day 1 I think. Not much depth there. Wingers that go hard to the net? Have not seen enough of Nasar in person to know. Perhaps you do? To turn this franchise around, they are going to need Free Agents that want to come here and not just for an overmarket deal. They are going to need to sign their home grown guys early and long term. They are going to have to pull some european rabbits out of their hats. They are going to need top notch coaching that coaches each game like it is a game 7.
- stevefrmglencoe

So... the original question/disagreement was that you said that counting on 2nd rounders was ill conceived and that the Hawks need better players than typically come out of that round. I said that you need players from those later rounds to fill out the roster

I asked the means you would use to construct a team and you say you need great goaltending, and lay out how you see the Hawks current pipeline. Also that the GM needs to sign guys early and for term.

There are plenty of teams that have won with above average goaltending, as well as even more who have consistently lost with great goaltending.

Where do you find these players to sign to early and for term?

There is more than one way to build a team, but the draft needs to be a major component because you need really good young players with low cap hits. There are only so many Hagels out there to obtain, and as we saw, they are extremely expensive to acquire from other teams.

To your point about difference makers, how many FA's from overseas have really been difference makers outside of Panarin?

If the Hawks got Kaliyev I would be extatic. Guess you haven’t seen heard much about him, has worked hard on his defensive game. Only reason he didn’t play much was he was injured. Offensively think De Brinket. Lethal shot, finds the soft areas, has scored big at whatever level he has played.

But you think those guys are a dime a dozen. If so, why are you so anxious to move up in the draft? There are tons of players out there

Don t think it would be too hard to find a veteran goalie. Alex Stalock ring a bell?
- LAHawk

I don’t know who is going to become the better player, Kalinyev or if Chicago converted the 2nd round choice into a first round selection by turning around and making a second trade

Certainly after your mention how much he had worked on his defensive game and another mention on hickeybuzz about how well he skated in the opening round playoff loss, I hold him in higher esteem. Natural goal scorers and or those blessed with a good shot, is a valued commodity

I had mentioned there is no problem to sign a veteran goaltender if Mrzek peddled; however, Stallock as the starter when he has injury history is a gamble. I would think hard about the trade and would consider Stallock too (reasonable salary). Actually if Stallock then there is room to take on even one more salary dump

Ya well big mouth Tkachuk better start showing up tonight because he has been MIA the last 3 games. At the very least he could have punched the lights out of his London buddy Mitch Marner when he had the perfect chance to do it last game.

I might become suicicdal if the Leafs come back to win this series.
- RickJ

Same. That last game reminded of Detroit vs hawks game 2 2013. Leafs were in command almost all game and limited chances. Florida best adapt or this is going to get interesting quick.

I do prefer the NCAA path just think you are undervaluing NCAA players and don't think Makar is an outlier. Just look at the U of MI rosters the last few yrs and almost all NTDP players play NCAA.

But there is no doubt Major Junior is still the #1 feeder for the NHL but it's slowly changing.. .....Used to have links of those stats, that you seem to overlook, but lost them. Maybe I'll dig a few up.
- Mr Ricochet

Steve, top 5, and 1st overall, NHL picks like Power, Fantilli and Celebrini leaving Canada to play USHL are huge developments. If it continues it's gonna change the prospect landscape in a big way..

These are elite players leaving Canada. Even top Euros are coming to the USHL and many are playing NCAA. .......... One huge benefit for these kids is getting drafted out of the USHL is they are not bound to the CHL-NHL Agreement. It's meant to keep top prospects in Major Junior but it's also chasing some away.

That's not an answer; it's an evasion.

Find a Cup winner (or even contender) who doesn't have an important player drafted after the 1st round.
- mohel

Agreed. To win a cup you need your 3rd and 4th lines to be on opposing teams radar for matchups and not an after thought.

Hawks got massive goals and huge minutes moved away from guys like toews by depth players.

If 2 lines won cups leafs would have a dynasty. As would the rangers.

Been thinking about this for awhile…

What do you think it would take to get the #2 pick from the Ducks? Fantilli seems to be exactly what we are looking for in addition to Bedard. He is already playing with Nazar at Michigan and could be a phenomenal fit as a sizable 2nd line center.

If he would be the undisputed #1 overall pick in almost any other draft, including next years, would you be willing to give up: #19, TB’s next years first and 2 seconds this year to get him? Would that be enough?

We could make a trade to take on contracts from VAN/LA to get more draft capital and a serviceable top 6 line mate.

I don’t think this would be accelerating the timeline that much and with KD not wanting to use all the picks this seems like a dream scenario.

Have Bedard and Fantilli start day 1 together and build another Toews and Kane combo with plenty of draft capital and cap left…. Thoughts?!

Wow, just realized my weekend away in Nashville for my wifes birthday is the day of the draft.

We get in around 10 am on Thursday. We are staying two blocks away from Bridgestone, anyone know how hard it is to get get tickets?

She won't like it, not sure I want to go there, but just in case, it would be cool to go.

I was at one NFL draft at Radio City, it was the year Jerry Angelo drafted Chris Williams out of Vanderbilt (Nashville coincidence?), so maybe its better I don't go.....


- vabeachbear

https://www.stubhub.com/g...d26ee13bce91249a3ee2d9bbd



the first bar on the left of the street near the stadiums where EVERYbody's scouts go.
Suzanne and Gary Seabrook's son was drafted to the Hawks at that draft. It was so much fun the last time, NJ rejoicing they got Zach Parise at slot #17

that is a link for tickets -do it soon, and let me know where you are sitting...

Been thinking about this for awhile…

What do you think it would take to get the #2 pick from the Ducks? Fantilli seems to be exactly what we are looking for in addition to Bedard. He is already playing with Nazar at Michigan and could be a phenomenal fit as a sizable 2nd line center.

If he would be the undisputed #1 overall pick in almost any other draft, including next years, would you be willing to give up: #19, TB’s next years first and 2 seconds this year to get him? Would that be enough?

We could make a trade to take on contracts from VAN/LA to get more draft capital and a serviceable top 6 line mate.

I don’t think this would be accelerating the timeline that much and with KD not wanting to use all the picks this seems like a dream scenario.

Have Bedard and Fantilli start day 1 together and build another Toews and Kane combo with plenty of draft capital and cap left…. Thoughts?!
- Backbone25

I would think it would take 2 high 2023 1st rounders, a top prospect and maybe a 2024 1st. For example ARI has the 6th and the 12th and then they would have to add to that to get the 2nd overall. They would be in the best position to pull off a trade like that. Hawks just don't have those higher picks. Even if they did, would they want to part ways with Korchinski?

Did anyone see the article about Bedard's great uncle? James Bedard played 22 games with the Blackhawks from 49-51. I think he had all of two points. Glad he didn't teach hockey to his nephew. Domi has ten points in the playoffs, second on the team. Hope Dallas can't sign him.
- bjphawkfan

He wore #21, too.

It’s not the degree of winning that I’m suggesting. It’s that as of now there is no more perception of tanking. Everyone in the organization, especially the players must know the culture of the team is to move forward.
- paulr