Except these guys may require more term and more money.

Murphy has only 3 more years at $4.4 million, or as little as $2.2 million. Plus, Murphy is better than those 4.
- DarthKane[/quote]

According to this board a house league pee wee defenseman is better than Murphy.

Except these guys may require more term and more money.

Murphy has only 3 more years at $4.4 million, or as little as $2.2 million. Plus, Murphy is better than those 4.
- DarthKane

And Murphy has all those leadership skills.

Now I have one for you:


The hawks lose the lottery and offer all top 4 picks for Bedard.

Yes / No


The hawks lose the 2nd lottery and offer all top 4 picks for Fantilli.

Yes / No
- wiz1901

Bedard - yes.

Fantilli - maybe, but leaning no.

I am a believer that a team needs 1 - 3 truly elite players to be a Cup winner. Bedard is as close as you will get to a "sure thing" so I'd pay the price. Fantilli is likely to be very good, but will he be truly elite? Some risk, so harder to pull the trigger. Especially since pick 3/4/5 just might be as good.

Bedard - yes.

Fantilli - maybe, but leaning no.

I am a believer that a team needs 1 - 3 truly elite players to be a Cup winner. Bedard is as close as you will get to a "sure thing" so I'd pay the price. Fantilli is likely to be very good, but will he be truly elite? Some risk, so harder to pull the trigger. Especially since pick 3/4/5 just might be as good.
- LetsGoHawks

Do you consider Toews to have been elite in his prime?

Do you consider Toews to have been elite in his prime?
- paulr

Yes. His effectiveness from 2009-15 was elite. We’ve seen the Jfresh and other ratings models of Toews during that time period and some have him at 100% ratings. I think him, Keith, Hossa during that time frame we’re just unstoppable both ways.

Yes. His effectiveness from 2009-15 was elite. We’ve seen the Jfresh and other ratings models of Toews during that time period and some have him at 100% ratings. I think him, Keith, Hossa during that time frame we’re just unstoppable both ways.
- ObeseOprah

No doubt, top three all around player in the league during that timeframe.

Going to the Icehogs vs Stars game tonight here in Austin. Hopefully the Hogs can fend off the sweep, and some of the Future Hawks will actually look like they will be part of the future for the Hawks. Hopefully some of the young dmen and Reichel will become building blocks of the future.

Nearly every one of the last dozen cup teams has had five or more GREAT players. That’s a broad term, but it is a notch below elite and a step above and beyond good.
COL: MacKinnon, Makar, Raantanen, Landeskog, Toews
TBL: Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasilevski, Point, Sergachev
STL: O’Reilly, Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, this is the one team that doesn’t really have five
WAS: Ovi, Kuznetsov, Carlson, Backstrom, Holtby
PIT: Crosby, Malkin, Kessell, Letang, Guentzel, Kunitz
CHI: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, Sharp, Crawford
LAK: Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick, Muzzin, Gaborik
BOS: Bergeron, Chara, Marchand, Krejci, Thomas
DET: Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, etc.

Having five+ great players doesn’t guarantee a cup, look at the Sharks and Rangers over the years, but it does make sure you’re competitive enough to have a shot.

Hopefully whoever the Hawks get with the top five pick becomes a great player, and he joins some of the other top prospects in becoming a great player. Who the other four are will be interesting.

Yes. His effectiveness from 2009-15 was elite. We’ve seen the Jfresh and other ratings models of Toews during that time period and some have him at 100% ratings. I think him, Keith, Hossa during that time frame we’re just unstoppable both ways.
- ObeseOprah

I do too, my next question was going to be Fantilli has been compared to Toews, but with more scoring upside so doesn’t that make him elite?

Nearly every one of the last dozen cup teams has had five or more GREAT players. That’s a broad term, but it is a notch below elite and a step above and beyond good.
COL: MacKinnon, Makar, Raantanen, Landeskog, Toews
TBL: Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasilevski, Point, Sergachev
STL: O’Reilly, Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, this is the one team that doesn’t really have five
WAS: Ovi, Kuznetsov, Carlson, Backstrom, Holtby
PIT: Crosby, Malkin, Kessell, Letang, Guentzel, Kunitz
CHI: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, Sharp, Crawford
LAK: Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick, Muzzin, Gaborik
BOS: Bergeron, Chara, Marchand, Krejci, Thomas
DET: Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, etc.

Having five+ great players doesn’t guarantee a cup, look at the Sharks and Rangers over the years, but it does make sure you’re competitive enough to have a shot.

Hopefully whoever the Hawks get with the top five pick becomes a great player, and he joins some of the other top prospects in becoming a great player. Who the other four are will be interesting.
- ObeseOprah

Alright I am glad to see the top players listed for the Cup winning teams since it can be used as a reference in my rebuke of Murphy

Murphy is and will always be a third pair with 2nd pair duty only on a team lacking quality dmen. Players of Murphy’s ilk can be traded for and or signed as free agent. It wouldn’t take much to get a Murphy, Holl, Durzi if you offered even a tad more than they are worth. If you even had to offer more than they worth is really silly because you live with a Murphy type and or plan how to get another of same value. if that is what you want to do - maybe your team needs a veteran while kids develop in the AHL

You do not trade even a late first for a Murphy type and a #2. Even if the difference is only a few slots like #28-32 for instance in this strong draft you might as well take who you like and not gamble he is there a few picks later. I know wiz will say good players maybe same tier 28-32 but in a strong draft I would rather get a player I like at 28 than wait for 32. Same tier level you say…. Another draft year it may make more sense to move from 28-32… keep reading as I break it down further

So Murphy is not representative of first round players. A year ago I was pinning for trading Murphy and a #2 although there could be more than a few spots apart between those choices. And that would be great for Chicago but not for the other team

Due to injury toll on a roster KD may keep an extra veteran around. Then too if expecting an early #1 in ‘24 and we have some AHL guys with a couple or more pro experience, maybe you don’t worry about the insurance benefit to be covered with an extra veteran hanging around

I just cannot fathom how any team trades a # 1 for. Common third pair type in Murphy plus even a # 2 only a few slots away. You know a guy you like to draft may slip to your first but you surrenders for Murphy and a #2. What if it was Ottinger whom we could have drafted a few drafts back

True.

But the 10-sample sizes have been not matching quite a bit recently. Don't want to spin it 10,000 times.
- totem

No


Only once with the right outcome

I don't think Kane sticks with the Rangers. They need to get faster. Give New Jersey their props. They are a very young team and they were down two zip to a veteran team. I would love to see New Jersey and Seattle in the finals but I am not sure Seattle has the where with all just yet. Go Panthers, three more gets us the 19th pick.
- bjphawkfan

I'm with you. I'd love to see a NJ v SEA Finals. ..... From what I've seen these two clubs play the most hungry hockey in these playoffs. Add they play the fastest brand too. Coincidence or not both clubs that play the same style, speed/hungry, have both engineered big upsets.

IMO a SEA v NJ Finals would be great for the fan.

Nearly every one of the last dozen cup teams has had five or more GREAT players. That’s a broad term, but it is a notch below elite and a step above and beyond good.
COL: MacKinnon, Makar, Raantanen, Landeskog, Toews
TBL: Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasilevski, Point, Sergachev
STL: O’Reilly, Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, this is the one team that doesn’t really have five
WAS: Ovi, Kuznetsov, Carlson, Backstrom, Holtby
PIT: Crosby, Malkin, Kessell, Letang, Guentzel, Kunitz
CHI: Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, Sharp, Crawford
LAK: Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Quick, Muzzin, Gaborik
BOS: Bergeron, Chara, Marchand, Krejci, Thomas
DET: Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, etc.

Having five+ great players doesn’t guarantee a cup, look at the Sharks and Rangers over the years, but it does make sure you’re competitive enough to have a shot.

Hopefully whoever the Hawks get with the top five pick becomes a great player, and he joins some of the other top prospects in becoming a great player. Who the other four are will be interesting.
- ObeseOprah

Matthews.

I'm with you. I'd love to see a NJ v SEA Finals. ..... From what I've seen these two clubs play the most hungry hockey in these playoffs. Add they play the fastest brand too. Coincidence or not both clubs that play the same style, speed/hungry, have both engineered big upsets.

IMO a SEA v NJ Finals would be great for the fan.
- Mr Ricochet

I think the team that comes out of the Toronto Florida series will be the eventual winners.

Going to the Icehogs vs Stars game tonight here in Austin. Hopefully the Hogs can fend off the sweep, and some of the Future Hawks will actually look like they will be part of the future for the Hawks. Hopefully some of the young dmen and Reichel will become building blocks of the future.
- spudrock512

Would love to see a recap of what you see tonight, Spud. Especially players that figure to be borderline to play with the big club next yr. Phillips, Reichel, Vlasic, Roos, Soderblom. ...... Anything that jumps out to you.

Having five+ great players doesn’t guarantee a cup, look at the Sharks and Rangers over the years, but it does make sure you’re competitive enough to have a shot.

Hopefully whoever the Hawks get with the top five pick becomes a great player, and he joins some of the other top prospects in becoming a great player. Who the other four are will be interesting.
- ObeseOprah

Will Korchinski become elite?

We have to see how this goes but Seattle may become a blueprint for building a club. They don't have any elite players. Some pretty good ones but as a group they are speedy and maybe most importantly hungry and seemingly all have bought in.

I think the team that comes out of the Toronto Florida series will be the eventual winners.
- paulr

Florid is impressing, and surprising, for sure. I don't have any money on anything but I'm picking SEA v NJ.

Although I would not mind an all Canada Finals. It would be good for the sport.

Will Korchinski become elite?

We have to see how this goes but Seattle may become a blueprint for building a club. They don't have any elite players. Some pretty good ones but as a group they are speedy and maybe most importantly hungry and seemingly all have bought in.
- Mr Ricochet

Do you think a championship team can be made up of solid depth players in all positions but without elite players? I’d like to think it can be the case but until it’s done I’m not sure. One good thing if it can be done is you won’t have two to four player taking up over half the cap and any be able to having a winning intact club for a longer time.

Florid is impressing, and surprising, for sure. I don't have any money on anything but I'm picking SEA v NJ.

Although I would not mind an all Canada Finals. It would be good for the sport.
- Mr Ricochet

I don’t have money on it either and I think any of the remaining teams would make for a good final. But Toronto has the best collection of higher end talent with solid depth while Florida has some never say die players who just won’t quit. No matter the final I think we’ll be in for a treat.

Will Korchinski become elite?

We have to see how this goes but Seattle may become a blueprint for building a club. They don't have any elite players. Some pretty good ones but as a group they are speedy and maybe most importantly hungry and seemingly all have bought in.
- Mr Ricochet

Much like Crawford, Korchinski WILL NOT be elite.

Jersey's speed and dynamic style vs Carolina's structure. To my eye as simple as that. ....... It really is a shame that Carolina is without Svechnikov, TT and Pacioretty.

Sounds like that Kane injury is real, and maybe not start the season next year.

Maybe KD getting a 2nd for an injured aging superstar wasn't as bad of a trade as many made it out to be.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-344123710?tid=277548856



[url]

Do you think a championship team can be made up of solid depth players in all positions but without elite players? I’d like to think it can be the case but until it’s done I’m not sure. One good thing if it can be done is you won’t have two to four player taking up over half the cap and any be able to having a winning intact club for a longer time.
- paulr

The Blues were close to that when they won. Was O Reilly elite?, Tarasanko?, Piterangelo? I would call them pretty good players, but elite would be a stretch.

The Blues were close to that when they won. Was O Reilly elite?, Tarasanko?, Piterangelo? I would call them pretty good players, but elite would be a stretch.
- LAHawk

Very good point and I completely overlooked them.

Very good point and I completely overlooked them.
- paulr

We all do