Spencer Knight isn’t even with the Panthers at the moment. He’s in the leagues substance abuse program. He’s a great talent but he’s got to get himself well.

Spencer Knight isn’t even with the Panthers at the moment. He’s in the leagues substance abuse program. He’s a great talent but he’s got to get himself well.
- pghbirdman

Buy low opportunity. Pens will need to take a lot of risks if their goal is to be competitive, especially at the goalie position. Unfortunately, they have been risk-adverse when they should have been more aggressive and too risky in situations where they should have been cautious.

We've gone cheap on goalie the last five years. Let's not do that again.

I lean towards a tandem just because of the lack of a true number 1 available. Jarry's best might be the best available, but there needs to be someone else who can carry the load while he's hurt or ineffective.

Buy low opportunity. Pens will need to take a lot of risks if their goal is to be competitive, especially at the goalie position. Unfortunately, they have been risk-adverse when they should have been more aggressive and too risky in situations where they should have been cautious.
- Hockey66

So basically what you're saying is whether they made a risky move or a safe one it failed. That tracks.

How about Brad Treliving as GM?

So basically what you're saying is whether they made a risky move or a safe one it failed. That tracks.
- Tojo.

Pretty much. But I don't blame Hextall entirely. Supposedly he was given the directive to try to ice a Cup-competitive team while building toward the future. It's no wonder we ended up in the mushy middle road to nowhere. But even still, almost all of Hex's moves were terrible. Not sure how much input Sully had but I wouldn't trust him to make personnel decisions (or have much of an influence). It scares me to think what influence he might be exerting now. I'm guessing whoever was in charge of the half-in/half-out nonsense (Mario, Morehouse, Burkle?) is not a part of the decision-making process going forward.

Pretty much. But I don't blame Hextall entirely. Supposedly he was given the directive to try to ice a Cup-competitive team while building toward the future. It's no wonder we ended up in the mushy middle road to nowhere. But even still, almost all of Hex's moves were terrible. Not sure how much input Sully had but I wouldn't trust him to make personnel decisions (or have much of an influence). It scares me to think what influence he might be exerting now. I'm guessing whoever was in charge of the half-in/half-out nonsense (Mario, Morehouse, Burkle?) is not a part of the decision-making process going forward.
- Hockey66

I doubt he has much to any at the moment...probably booking tee times and making summer plans with his wife.

I'm thinking that working out a sign-and-trade with him might make the most sense. He's originally from the Vancouver area. Perhaps we could work out as part of a larger trade signing Jarry to a deal that works for him and the Canucks, and then trading him for Thatcher Demko, who apparently wants out of Vancouver.

The 'keep Jarry' crowd sometimes seems to forget that he's a UFA. Meaning...there there is no guarantee that you just get to keep him as the status quo netminder. Personally I hope some other team takes a stab at him for more than Pittsburgh is willing to pay so we can put this to rest. They are probably no better or worse next year with Jarry or another cheap veteran as primary with DeSmith (untradeable) backing him up.

I'm thinking that working out a sign-and-trade with him might make the most sense. He's originally from the Vancouver area. Perhaps we could work out as part of a larger trade signing Jarry to a deal that works for him and the Canucks, and then trading him for Thatcher Demko, who apparently wants out of Vancouver.
- Florida Penguin

Rutherford was hired a year after Jarry was drafted, otherwise JR might be really interested if he was one of his guys. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm actually a little surprised there hasn't been a deal between the Pens and former GMs/assistants for "their guys" with the exception of Bjug (who is from Minnesota and it seemed more like a favor to the player). Many of them end up on those teams, though (3 currently on the Wild alone). Demko is a great idea, though, and Vancouver should probably take a gamble on a youngish and probably cheap goalie.

TIL: "[Jim] Rutherford was one of the pioneers of the popular trend of ice hockey goaltenders decorating his mask in 1976. Initially, a friend painted a pair of red wings at the temples of Rutherford's mask without his permission. Because he did not have time to get another fitted mask before game time, he reluctantly wore the decorated mask on the ice."

Pretty much. But I don't blame Hextall entirely. Supposedly he was given the directive to try to ice a Cup-competitive team while building toward the future. It's no wonder we ended up in the mushy middle road to nowhere. But even still, almost all of Hex's moves were terrible. Not sure how much input Sully had but I wouldn't trust him to make personnel decisions (or have much of an influence). It scares me to think what influence he might be exerting now. I'm guessing whoever was in charge of the half-in/half-out nonsense (Mario, Morehouse, Burkle?) is not a part of the decision-making process going forward.
- Hockey66

I'd imagine FSG had the half in half out approach so I doubt it changes. Mario wasn't really around this year.

And I think that's the right approach at this point. I'm open to trading a first round pick if the team surprises and looks like a contender. But if not, I wouldn't. This team should have been a playoff team at least without making a big trade had they not made so many bad decisions.

The 'keep Jarry' crowd sometimes seems to forget that he's a UFA. Meaning...there there is no guarantee that you just get to keep him as the status quo netminder. Personally I hope some other team takes a stab at him for more than Pittsburgh is willing to pay so we can put this to rest. They are probably no better or worse next year with Jarry or another cheap veteran as primary with DeSmith (untradeable) backing him up.
- greenyone

I doubt anyone actually forgets this. But your own UFAs are the most likely to sign here as opposed to picking an outside UFA.

The biggest problem with moving on from Jarry is who is better that is available? It's a bad year to be looking for a goalie.

I'd imagine FSG had the half in half out approach so I doubt it changes. Mario wasn't really around this year.

And I think that's the right approach at this point. I'm open to trading a first round pick if the team surprises and looks like a contender. But if not, I wouldn't. This team should have been a playoff team at least without making a big trade had they not made so many bad decisions.
- Tojo.

Yeah, I thought the approach was decreed before this season, but it still might be FSG behind it. At this point, I don't think the Pens can be competitive. Last offseason was when the wheels really started to fall off, due in part to stupidly extending Carter in January and not getting rid of Dumo (among other fails). After the Granlund TDL deal, I think rebuild should be an option, especially if a goalie can't be obtained and Jarry is still hurt. Talk to the big 3 and see what they want to do, because this team is trending downward pretty hard with a lot of bad contracts. Can't dig out of that hole and get a competitive team and still build toward the future - it's just not possible, unless just making the playoffs is considered "competitive."

Pretty much. But I don't blame Hextall entirely. Supposedly he was given the directive to try to ice a Cup-competitive team while building toward the future. It's no wonder we ended up in the mushy middle road to nowhere. But even still, almost all of Hex's moves were terrible. Not sure how much input Sully had but I wouldn't trust him to make personnel decisions (or have much of an influence). It scares me to think what influence he might be exerting now. I'm guessing whoever was in charge of the half-in/half-out nonsense (Mario, Morehouse, Burkle?) is not a part of the decision-making process going forward.
- Hockey66

He was tasked with that, and told ownership he could do it. He couldn't. He is to blame.

He was tasked with that, and told ownership he could do it. He couldn't. He is to blame.
- j.boyd919

But wouldn't you agree that it's a stupid directive in the first place? Either really go for it or call it a slow bleed out reunion tour. I don't think any GM in the Pens' position would be able to pull it off. If you want the GM job, of course you are going to say what they want to hear. He might have even believed it, too. But yes, Hextall absolutely sucked balls.

Yeah, I thought the approach was decreed before this season, but it still might be FSG behind it. At this point, I don't think the Pens can be competitive. Last offseason was when the wheels really started to fall off, due in part to stupidly extending Carter in January and not getting rid of Dumo (among other fails). After the Granlund TDL deal, I think rebuild should be an option, especially if a goalie can't be obtained and Jarry is still hurt. Talk to the big 3 and see what they want to do, because this team is trending downward pretty hard with a lot of bad contracts. Can't dig out of that hole and get a competitive team and still build toward the future - it's just not possible, unless just making the playoffs is considered "competitive."
- Hockey66

Rebuild should not be an option.

The whole that you speak of is maneuverable and possible to dig itself out of.

There is a path to a competitive team that should be able to win a couple rounds.

Buy out Granlund
Don't resign Dumo, Kulikov, Bones.

There are quality/younger UFAs available for the 3rd line.

Commit to DOC-Carter-Nylander on the 4th line.

It's not as dire as you make it out to be.

But wouldn't you agree that it's a stupid directive in the first place? Either really go for it or call it a slow bleed out reunion tour. I don't think any GM in the Pens' position would be able to pull it off. If you want the GM job, of course you are going to say what they want to hear. He might have even believed it, too. But yes, Hextall absolutely sucked balls.
- Hockey66

Sure, and then the team got sold, and the owners wanted to win and committed to winning.

Rebuild should not be an option.

The whole that you speak of is maneuverable and possible to dig itself out of.

There is a path to a competitive team that should be able to win a couple rounds.

Buy out Granlund
Don't resign Dumo, Kulikov, Bones.

There are quality/younger UFAs available for the 3rd line.

Commit to DOC-Carter-Nylander on the 4th line.

It's not as dire as you make it out to be.
- j.boyd919

That's like, your opinion, man.

We'll see what happens, but unless we're willing to trade 1sts and somehow luck out on a goalie and all of the oldies miraculously stay healthy and productive again, I don't see the Pens being competitive in the East. We needed to start making big moves years ago. And if Sullivan is back, forget it.

Sure, and then the team got sold, and the owners wanted to win and committed to winning.
- j.boyd919

With the same directive to build toward the future? By keeping their 1st round draft picks, they only thing they committed to was mediocrity. Pens have been mediocre the last 5-6 years.

That's like, your opinion, man.

We'll see what happens, but unless we're willing to trade 1sts and somehow luck out on a goalie and all of the oldies miraculously stay healthy and productive again, I don't see the Pens being competitive in the East. We needed to start making big moves years ago. And if Sullivan is back, forget it.
- Hockey66

I made 3 reasonable trades. Rutta as a cap dump. 1st+ for Swayman, Legare+2 picks for Anderson.

Everything else was a UFA - Tatar, Domi, Gudas. You get younger on the 3rd line with Domi and Anderson, both guys that play with an edge. Gudas plays on the 3rd pairing with Frieds, knockin heads and blocking shots. And in Tatar, you have a fantastic 2-way player that can slide up and down the lineup.

With the same directive to build toward the future? By keeping their 1st round draft picks, they only thing they committed to was mediocrity. Pens have been mediocre the last 5-6 years.
- Hockey66

In FSGs presser they said they are committed to competing for a Stanley Cup with Sid, Geno and Letang. I believe you are referring to the old regime.

In FSGs presser they said they are committed to competing for a Stanley Cup with Sid, Geno and Letang. I believe you are referring to the old regime.
- j.boyd919

Did you expect them to say anything different? Actions speak louder than words and they have been AWOL until a few days ago. Meanwhile, Hextall was allowed to make terrible move after terrible move.

Like I said, we'll see, but a hell of a lot has to go almost perfectly for the Pens to be competitive again, IMO. Even your armchair GM team needs a lot of things to fall in place. Not saying it can't happen, but what if they don't get Swayman? Too many land mines, IMO, on a team with a lot of holes to fill and a lot of 35+ players.

Did you expect them to say anything different? Actions speak louder than words and they have been AWOL until a few days ago. Meanwhile, Hextall was allowed to make terrible move after terrible move.

Like I said, we'll see, but a hell of a lot has to go almost perfectly for the Pens to be competitive again, IMO. Even your armchair GM team needs a lot of things to fall in place. Not saying it can't happen, but what if they don't get Swayman? Too many land mines, IMO, on a team with a lot of holes to fill and a lot of 35+ players.
- Hockey66

If they don't get Swayman, you go after Anderson, Raanta, Adin Hill... etc.

Goalie is the more volatile position and with a smaller selection, you focus on building the best team in front of the goalie while you work on trades/signings.

Things need to fall into place for any and every team, so I don't buy that.

If they don't get Swayman, you go after Anderson, Raanta, Adin Hill... etc.

Goalie is the more volatile position and with a smaller selection, you focus on building the best team in front of the goalie while you work on trades/signings.

Things need to fall into place for any and every team, so I don't buy that.
- j.boyd919

Ok, agree to disagree. What do you think about Sully?