It is not about the player, it is about the coach.

A coach could tell a player that he has five games to start improving on A, B and C. If he doesn't, he's going to watch three games from the press box for some perspective. And, by the way, one of those games is going to be in your home town.

Again, the way he did it came off as either desperate or petty. Neither paints Torts in a good light.
- GeorgeBailey

It is about the player. If a coach tells a player you must improve over the next # of games that player will be so worried about making a mistake they will hurt the team. It is your opinion how Tors came off. IMO, I had no issue with what he did, did it suck for Samheim, sure, but how about Sanheim play up to his potential and contract and not give the coach a thought about benching him.

I disagree on a number of fronts. Sanheim did not have a strong season. He did not push the puck and get involved in the offense enough. However his play away from the puck was solid. The major difference between Sanheim and Ristolainen is Sanheim is a pretty good player who just had a sub par year. While Ristolainen has never really been that good and is declining as a player. I believe that Sanheim will bounce back. I don't like the term of his contract but the AAV is fine for a player of his ability.
- MJL

What ability does Sanhiem have? I mean really what ability? He shows flashes once in a while of joining the rush, but 99% of the time nothing comes of it. Samheim is horrible in his own end; horrible at stopping plays and winning puck battles, horrible at clearing the slot area and he is below average in zone break outs. Now with Risto, how can you possibly state he is declining as a player? He just completed his best all-around season in the NHL and is in his prime at 28 years old. The AAV is high for both players, but for Sanheim's is aboiut $3M too high IMO.

Guys around here are talking about John Tortorella like he’s the Kingpin of crime in a Daredevil comic book. Like, we should all fear that he’s becoming too close with Danny Briere and this could result in a mysterious accident (like his car breaks go out), dies and guess who is next in line to take the general manager’s job? I mean, it’s the perfect plan to ride to power.

This is how ridiculous most of you sound to me.

It is about the player. If a coach tells a player you must improve over the next # of games that player will be so worried about making a mistake they will hurt the team. It is your opinion how Tors came off. IMO, I had no issue with what he did, did it suck for Samheim, sure, but how about Sanheim play up to his potential and contract and not give the coach a thought about benching him.
- WhiskeyMan

A player won't have that same worry about making a mistake after being scratched for a game? It's not about benching the player. It's about the timing of the benching. It was petty and unprofessional.

https://twitter.com/ADiMarco25/status/1648714185931476994?t=4qVaEbvwekD9rZ3bFYF3Ww&s=19

An update on the President search. Shero no longer the favorite? Apparently looking at candidates from the Rutherford executive tree.
- Trox88

To me the only thing that makes sense is that Briere is named President of hockey Ops and he hires a GM. Otherwise I don't see how any good and qualified candidate will want this job when the two most important decisions that person needs to make, hiring a GM and head coach, have already been made.

I was confused by your incredibly long post and said why I was confused. You keep saying you’re confused without a reason. Pretty simple stuff.
- SuperSchennBros

I don't didnt make any judgements about how players reacted to the coach; in my incredibly long post. I didn't criticize any of the players reactions. I said Tort's method works for some and not for others. I said the real issue is that the team doesn't have good players and that all of Tort's antics are only a thing because the team is bad. If the team was well constructed there'd be no need for his games. It's all just a distraction.

Hope this helps.

I don't didnt make any judgements about how players reacted to the coach; in my incredibly long post. I didn't criticize any of the players reactions. I said Tort's method works for some and not for others. I said the real issue is that the team doesn't have good players and that all of Tort's antics are only a thing because the team is bad. If the team was well constructed there'd be no need for his games. It's all just a distraction.

Hope this helps.
- Dkos

You can say that about any coach for any sport at any level, that some players will react well to a particular coaching style while others don't react well. In the case of the Flyers, those players that don't want to play for Torts have been identified andwill be moved out if they can be moved, its really that simple. And BTW, this is how its supposed to work.

What ability does Sanhiem have? I mean really what ability? He shows flashes once in a while of joining the rush, but 99% of the time nothing comes of it. Samheim is horrible in his own end; horrible at stopping plays and winning puck battles, horrible at clearing the slot area and he is below average in zone break outs. Now with Risto, how can you possibly state he is declining as a player? He just completed his best all-around season in the NHL and is in his prime at 28 years old. The AAV is high for both players, but for Sanheim's is aboiut $3M too high IMO.
- jd250

With the exception of the known fact of age. Everything you posted here is inaccurate. Let's first start with Sanheim. The numbers have been given to you in the past on Sanheim and what he can produce. Sanheim was decent defensively this season. He did not have a good season offensively. Sanheim in his career has shown far more than just flashes once in a while. He's put up strong even strength scoring and puck possession numbers in past seasons.

As far as Ristolainen having his best all around season in the NHL. I have no clue what you're basing that on and I would suggest. Neither do you. As Tomahawk posted earlier. Although he did improve, mostly due to systems, his running around and taking himself out of position. He was still awful in net front coverage, blueline defense and puck transition. He had the second worst offensive season in his career.

To me the only thing that makes sense is that Briere is named President of hockey Ops and he hires a GM. Otherwise I don't see how any good and qualified candidate will want this job when the two most important decisions that person needs to make, hiring a GM and head coach, have already been made.
- jd250

Briere is the GM. He is not a candidate for the presidents position.

You can say that about any coach for any sport at any level, that some players will react well to a particular coaching style while others don't react well. In the case of the Flyers, those players that don't want to play for Torts have been identified andwill be moved out if they can be moved, its really that simple. And BTW, this is how its supposed to work.
- jd250

No, that's not how it's supposed to work. Personality clashes are not supposed to figure into roster build. A coach is not supposed to alienate players due to his schizophrenia. It's supposed to be a supportive environment where coaches grow and teach players to be better. It's one thing if a player has a work ethic issue or doesn't take to coaching. What's being discussed here, is something entirely different.

A player won't have that same worry about making a mistake after being scratched for a game? It's not about benching the player. It's about the timing of the benching. It was petty and unprofessional.
- MJL

He's just trying to get a rise out of the player. He's trying to get the player to fight back. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Tort's methods. Maybe he's tried to get to Sanheim some other ways? I'm guessing he felt he needed to take drastic measures.

Again...I'm not saying I like or dislike the coach's methods or feel the players are too sensitive or not sensitive enough Just trying to be clear so everyone understands

How do we know that neither has given it a thought since? Like I said previously, in a vacuum by itself, maybe not a big thing. These things however are cumulative. It's how a coach can lose a team. All coaches do have baggage but Tortorella is charged extra fees at the airport.
- MJL

LOL, kind of the point, we don't know, I assume coaches come with expiration dates because of their baggage. Right now, I think it is safe to guess that the players he did it to are just thinking about healing up and getting a great off-season in. I do agree, If Torts doesn't know when to say when, that will be the beginning of his exit. All the pressers I watch, it seems Torts has an open door, more importantly, he wants the players to call him out and use that door.

He's just trying to get a rise out of the player. He's trying to get the player to fight back. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Tort's methods. Maybe he's tried to get to Sanheim some other ways? I'm guessing he felt he needed to take drastic measures.

Again...I'm not saying I like or dislike the coach's methods or feel the players are too sensitive or not sensitive enough Just trying to be clear so everyone understands
- Dkos

I get what you're saying but the key point is that both Frost and Sanheim were scratched once! All season.

LOL, kind of the point, we don't know, I assume coaches come with expiration dates because of their baggage. Right now, I think it is safe to guess that the players he did it to are just thinking about healing up and getting a great off-season in. I do agree, If Torts doesn't know when to say when, that will be the beginning of his exit. All the pressers I watch, it seems Torts has an open door, more importantly, he wants the players to call him out and use that door.
- wcorvette

I personally don't believe a word Tortorella says. He is constantly conflicting himself. He says he believes in communication but in some cases he reportedly he did not go to the player. In my opinion as the head coach. If you scratch a player, it is the coaches responsibility to go to the player and tell him why. I guess where I differ from some is that in cases where we don't know something. I don't give Tortorella any benefit of the doubt. The more I learn about how he conducts himself, the less I like him. Especially when I have issues with how he has the team play. You could maybe overlook some things if he was a top notch coach but he is not in my opinion. He is a very mediocre coach.

You can say that about any coach for any sport at any level, that some players will react well to a particular coaching style while others don't react well. In the case of the Flyers, those players that don't want to play for Torts have been identified andwill be moved out if they can be moved, its really that simple. And BTW, this is how its supposed to work.
- jd250

What's a good team right now? The Bruins? Do you think they'd be better or worse with Tortorella in charge?

I'd rather the Flyers just identify players who PLAY well. Move out the ones who do not play well and bring in ones with more skill. I'm not really interested in playing Tort's mind games.

I personally don't believe a word Tortorella says. He is constantly conflicting himself. He says he believes in communication but in some cases he reportedly he did not go to the player. In my opinion as the head coach. If you scratch a player, it is the coaches responsibility to go to the player and tell him why. I guess where I differ from some is that in cases where we don't know something. I don't give Tortorella any benefit of the doubt. The more I learn about how he conducts himself, the less I like him. Especially when I have issues with how he has the team play. You could maybe overlook some things if he was a top notch coach but he is not in my opinion. He is a very mediocre coach.
- MJL

You could be right, then again we are not there, so maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. Torts says a lot of the right things leadership wise, that I like but conflicting reports are a concern. When a team is bad, a new coach is putting his stamp on the team, you will see some skirmishes. It appears Torts wants to be the bad guy and have the group rally around the player and prove him wrong, or he will take the bullet from the media, he likes the attention on him to keep it off the team. I am sure some of that is ego.

What's a good team right now? The Bruins? Do you think they'd be better or worse with Tortorella in charge?

I'd rather the Flyers just identify players who PLAY well. Move out the ones who do not play well and bring in ones with more skill. I'm not really interested in playing Tort's mind games.
- Dkos

Exactly. Coach and grow the talent. Not seek conflict and then attempt to weed out those who did not respond to your liking to that conflict that you purposely created.

I get what you're saying but the key point is that both Frost and Sanheim were scratched once! All season.
- MJL

I hear you. I don't think that Torts was UNAWARE that these were special games for Frost and Sanheim either. He was trying to piss them off. He targeted these games specifically. What I dont know is if it got some point across to the players, or if it did anything to improve the players.

I don't didnt make any judgements about how players reacted to the coach; in my incredibly long post. I didn't criticize any of the players reactions. I said Tort's method works for some and not for others. I said the real issue is that the team doesn't have good players and that all of Tort's antics are only a thing because the team is bad. If the team was well constructed there'd be no need for his games. It's all just a distraction.

Hope this helps.
- Dkos

You know, I agree with this. At the same time we’re all just spinning our wheels. We don’t know what’s going on in the dressing room. You think we’re frustrated? Try being in the dressing room and on that bench as a player or coach. We’re loose. We’re not good. Not fun. So how do we get some of these guys to that next level?

He's just trying to get a rise out of the player. He's trying to get the player to fight back. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Tort's methods. Maybe he's tried to get to Sanheim some other ways? I'm guessing he felt he needed to take drastic measures.

Again...I'm not saying I like or dislike the coach's methods or feel the players are too sensitive or not sensitive enough Just trying to be clear so everyone understands
- Dkos

Your points have been well thought out. Not saying it (the Sanheim scratch) was definitely wrong, but in hindsight, the benching wasn’t very effective. Here is the thing, I know Torts is accusing others of being too sensitive with his benchings and some of that rings true. However, most diehard Flyers fans have watched these players every game of their careers; we have a different perspective than he does.

For instance, Sanheim—when does anyone recall him being healthy scratched in the past? I certainly remember many times I thought he should be benched, and he wasn’t. He had a really bad start to this season, why on earth could he not have had a typical for average game scratch be the first of his career? Why that game? I do think past coaches have coddled select players, but this scenario with Torts seemed extreme given the player’s history. Torts can say that the history doesn’t matter to him, but the fans know it, so it does to them.

Your points have been well thought out. Not saying it (the Sanheim scratch) was definitely wrong, but in hindsight, the benching wasn’t very effective. Here is the thing, I know Torts is accusing others of being too sensitive with his benchings and some of that rings true. However, most diehard Flyers fans have watched these players every game of their careers; we have a different perspective than he does.

For instance, Sanheim—when does anyone recall him being healthy scratched in the past? I certainly remember many times I thought he should be benched, and he wasn’t. He had a really bad start to this season, why on earth could he not have had a typical for average game scratch be the first of his career? Why that game? I do think past coaches have coddled select players, but this scenario with Torts seemed extreme given the player’s history. Torts can say that the history doesn’t matter to him, but the fans know it, so it does to them.
- NC Flyers Fan

I think you've made a good post pointing out the fans perspective. I would just add that when he first got to the Flyers. Hakstol healthy scratched Sanheim quite a few times.

I’ve heard literal stories of even great players such as Peter Forsberg getting ripped in front of the team by his coaches. Like, what are we doing here? Players getting benched in an arena in front of fans is literally calling out a guy in front of everyone. As a kid, I’ve seen teachers full on yelling at a student in front of the entire. You’re telling me that grown up athletes who are also millionaires can’t handle being yelled at in a locker room with the team watching? Oh and by the way this is all speculation because we don’t even know if this is happening. This is some soft as melted ice cream stuff I’m reading today.
- SuperSchennBros

Constructive criticism will always have a place and that's why i added it. I'm referencing what JT himself has said. He will push people to see if they respond and how they respond. There are better ways to find who is soft mentally and who is not.
Getting hammered for blowing coverages multiple times a game is relevant. Sitting a player in his hometown is head games. Sanheim and Frost have to get over it and play for sure. There is no crying in hockey.
Be a hard arse coach for sure but be fair. That's hard to do because some players or workers are more reliable.
The problem is JT has favorites and it shows.
My biggest problem with JT is i don't see him as winning a cup with the flyers.
JT is basically akin to a military drill sergeant in basic training.

You know, I agree with this. At the same time we’re all just spinning our wheels. We don’t know what’s going on in the dressing room. You think we’re frustrated? Try being in the dressing room and on that bench as a player or coach. We’re loose. We’re not good. Not fun. So how do we get some of these guys to that next level?
- SuperSchennBros

Good question. I guess we hope that Briere is a genius GM?

It is about the player. If a coach tells a player you must improve over the next # of games that player will be so worried about making a mistake they will hurt the team. It is your opinion how Tors came off. IMO, I had no issue with what he did, did it suck for Samheim, sure, but how about Sanheim play up to his potential and contract and not give the coach a thought about benching him.
- WhiskeyMan

I want to be sure I understand your point.

If a coach tells a player he needs to improve his play in order to stay in the lineup, the player will get nervous and play worse?

Frankly, if we're talking about a professional hockey player and this is a concern, then maybe the guy isn't really cut out to be a professional hockey player.

If you were the coach, would you not communicate, at some point, the areas the player needs to improve on in order to stay in the lineup?

What type of leash would you give the player? Rather, do you tell the player what will happen if there is no improvement? Do you provide any time frame for results?

Would that be communicated or would it appear to happen randomly?

Randomly enough such that the only game they sit happens to be the one in their hometown?


With what I said previously, I'd have no problem, necessarily, with the coach if he reamed the player out in front of the team and/or threw a tantrum while explaining to the player that he has X number of games to get his ass in gear or he's watching from the press box.

He's just trying to get a rise out of the player. He's trying to get the player to fight back. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Tort's methods. Maybe he's tried to get to Sanheim some other ways? I'm guessing he felt he needed to take drastic measures.

Again...I'm not saying I like or dislike the coach's methods or feel the players are too sensitive or not sensitive enough Just trying to be clear so everyone understands
- Dkos

My point is not whether you agree with what Torts did or how he did it. My point is what it says about his coaching style.

Every coach wants his players to play better. If they're doing the wrong things, that needs to be communicated, particularly if they're in danger of being taken out of the lineup. Somehow, someway, that has to be communicated to the player.

The fact that those two players sat one game each all year and those games happened to be in their home towns tells me Torts was either petty or desperate (I have tried everything to get this guy to do x, y and z. I have no other option but to start making him a healthyscratch.). Neither of those options is good.

As far as the two players are concerned - it happened - tough sh!t. You move on. You'll remember it, but it shouldn't effect your play.