What short memories we have! Not to worry you were not alone. I remember quite clearly the ridicule all you geniuses subjected me to last year when Dorion made those trades for DeBrincat and Talbot and I said they were awful trades while you were all singing Dorion's praises to the heavens.
- Whatisavailable

The DeBrincat trade wasn't awful. What you mean is you never liked it, because you despised the player from the start. It's perfectly evident in your writing, so don't bother trying to claim any grand wisdom. Objectively, DeBrincat put up a decent year where he led the team in PP points, helped a rookie C reach 20G, and finished with 27G-39A. Last year, that would have put him 1 point away from leading the team in scoring. Plus, I guarantee you that if Tkachuk or Giroux had been on that 2nd line instead of DeBrincat, there's no chance they'd have scored 35G.

Not to mention that you can't like the Giroux signing, and not acknowledge the critical role that the DeBrincat/Talbot trades had in making that possible. It's not a coincidence that both players were acquired in the week leading up to Giroux's UFA signing. And Giroux has explicitly mentioned how important it was in his decision that he saw the team making clear roster improvements. Now I'm sure Dorion would have preferred a Chychrun trade at that time, but everyone and their dog knew he wanted a top-4D and ARI was still asking for the moon.

Now I'm certainly not suggesting that DeBrincat is perfect, or that Dorion is wonderful because neither is true. But your unsubstantiated blanket statement that the DeBrincat trade was "awful" along with your incessant juvenile mockery of his height just reeks of a personal bias against the player.

I can understand why send fans are gun shy when it comes to goaltenders. We haven't had the best experience with acquiring or trading away goaltenders in the past. Especially recently with both Murray and Gus. But you could go back to when they traded away both Bishop and Lehner and even going back to as far as the Tom Barrasso Experiment (which might be my new favorite pretend band name....)

The Murray deal at the time was the right move to make. It was the wrong player and definitely the wrong term and money and who exactly were we bidding against? But it was a move that had to be made. The next move we make is going to have to be equally as bold and equally as fraught with the potential for disaster.

And it isn't just us that are having these issues. Look at the Kemper and Campbell deals this past summer. Wrong term and wrong money and the goaltenders haven't worked out.

But sens need to make the move.

Some caveats:
- if the sens are trading for a goalie they do not trade for anybody with more than 2 years left on the contract and I do believe forsberg would have to go back the other way to make the money work
- if they are trading for a goalie they are definitely trading for someone who could be considered an upgrade or a more Elite goaltender or with the POTENTIAL to be. And those are hard to come by. So have to accept it will cost or hurt
- if they are signing a goalie that's available then it's only a one-year deal in order to not block Soogards development. And I would argue any of the available ufas would not take a one-year deal. Or are an upgrade on Forsberg. (Someone is going to spend money and term on Jarry and regret it.)

So...I would consider Freddie Anderson on a one or two year deal. I would consider Gibson as a roll of the dice. I would consider Demko but it would cost a first, Forsberg and a player. We could try to pry Swayman out of Boston. I would even consider Cal Peterson as a huge risk just for the potential. Dan Vladar might be a steal out of Calgary. Matt Jones in Seattle if cheap.

But , on top of all this, there are other teams looking to do ecactly what the Sens need to do. BUFFALO especially but also Detroit needs a goalie.

DeBrincat doesn't get you a goalie but maybe not signing him long term does?

Going to be a interesting summer.

The DeBrincat trade wasn't awful. What you mean is you never liked it, because you despised the player from the start. It's perfectly evident in your writing, so don't bother trying to claim any grand wisdom. Objectively, DeBrincat put up a decent year where he led the team in PP points, helped a rookie C reach 20G, and finished with 27G-39A. Last year, that would have put him 1 point away from leading the team in scoring. Plus, I guarantee you that if Tkachuk or Giroux had been on that 2nd line instead of DeBrincat, there's no chance they'd have scored 35G.

Not to mention that you can't like the Giroux signing, and not acknowledge the critical role that the DeBrincat/Talbot trades had in making that possible. It's not a coincidence that both players were acquired in the week leading up to Giroux's UFA signing. And Giroux has explicitly mentioned how important it was in his decision that he saw the team making clear roster improvements. Now I'm sure Dorion would have preferred a Chychrun trade at that time, but everyone and their dog knew he wanted a top-4D and ARI was still asking for the moon.

Now I'm certainly not suggesting that DeBrincat is perfect, or that Dorion is wonderful because neither is true. But your unsubstantiated blanket statement that the DeBrincat trade was "awful" along with your incessant juvenile mockery of his height just reeks of a personal bias against the player.
- khawk

Now that I think of it I seem to remember Giroux telling his agent that wherever DeBrincat is that's where he wants to be. And Talbot too. I know Giroux sure didn't ever want to have to face Talbot on another team.

The corsi numbers show that Pinto and Batherson both did better away from DeBrincat than with him so lets lose that nonsense idea as well. I remember how much better Batherson played when they stuck him up on the first line away from DeBrincat. Night and day.

I remember how they tried to put DeBrincat up on the first line with Tkachuk and Stutzle to try and get him going and that failed miserably.

Even Giroux was not able to help DeBrincat and I'm pretty sure their PP would have looked a lot better if Giroux was on it rather than DeBrincat. They spent all their time trying to give DeBrincat perfect, ten bell scoring opportunities and he would shoot it wide or high or totally fan on the puck or shoot it into the goalie's crest. Pathetic.

There was no great wisdom involved. You just needed to look at that ridiculous QO to see that it was going to cause problems. I said on numerous occasions that the Sens couldn't afford to give ANY second line LW 9 million dollars or 8 million dollars, especially not, as Spatso so diplomatically puts it, an undersized second line LW. Not if they wanted to have the money to bring in the pieces they needed to make them a serious contender. I said it then and I'll say it again. Chicago knew what kind of a mess they were going to be in with DeBrincat this year so they looked around for a sucker to take him off their hands and they found one in Dorion. And you guys cheered!

The Sens are not out of the woods yet by a long shot. Since this team sale is taking so long it seems more and more likely that Dorion will be back for another year. I have said that my fear is that in order not to look stupid Dorion may give DeBrincat term and money, but not more than Stutzle or Tkachuk. That will only work if DeBrincat realizes that he's not a super star. I'm hoping he thinks he is a super star and so rejects any extension offer thinking he can do much better elsewhere. Go get paid, Alex! Go get paid!

As far as the Talbot trade goes I said that I'd seen him play a lot in his days with Edmonton and that he always let in one or two stupid goals at the worst possible time and he did it again here in Ottawa. For those who hadn't ever seen him play you just had to ask yourself why a team sitting with this all star goalie would choose to trade him away for an unproven prospect after bringing in an aging Fleury to replace him. That should have set off alarm bells.

You guys are good at massaging numbers to try and make yourselves look good or cherry picking a phrase here or there to take out of context trying to give it another meaning but it doesn't matter. I've come to realize that you basically you have your fingers up in the air to check which way the wind is blowing and shape your opinions accordingly. A lot of podcasters do the same.

Now that I think of it I seem to remember Giroux telling his agent that wherever DeBrincat is that's where he wants to be. And Talbot too. I know Giroux sure didn't ever want to have to face Talbot on another team.
- Whatisavailable

Always the same tired and juvenile response. Unfortunately, Giroux explicitly cited the team's roster upgrades as a major factor in his decision at his UFA press conference. It was also reiterated by virtually every single media outlet as a major contributing factor. Whether you like it or not, you're making a major false assumption if you've convinced yourself that Giroux was definitely going to sign as a UFA with a bottom-10 small-market team regardless of those roster improvements. It's right up there with assuming that any of those moves would have happened if Melnyk were still the owner of the team.

Always the same tired and juvenile response.
- khawk

I have a hard time understanding why anyone posting here bothers giving this guy any consideration. Conversing with this fellow is a waste of time and energy.

I have a hard time understanding why anyone posting here bothers giving this guy any consideration. Conversing with this fellow is a waste of time and energy.
- HoweHatrick

Hey, donkey man! I would be interested in finding out what arbitrators would award DeBrincat. That 7.25 number seems realistic but the problem is Dorion has already come out and said he's going to qualify DeBrincat so it doesn't seem likely we'll get to find out. It would be a good move to take him to arbitration but doesn't seem likely.

Too bad hockeybuzz doesn't archive stuff because I would have loved to go back to last July and pull up the comments you guys were making at the time and repost them to refresh your apparently failing memories.

I don't remember you ever making a cogent argument against any of the stuff I was saying. You just always posted a donkey to sum up your thought process in what you seemed to think was an intelligent response. I have to agree. You do have a hard time understanding.

Hey, donkey man! I would be interested in finding out what arbitrators would award DeBrincat. That 7.25 number seems realistic but the problem is Dorion has already come out and said he's going to qualify DeBrincat so it doesn't seem likely we'll get to find out. It would be a good move to take him to arbitration but doesn't seem likely.
- Whatisavailable

It's not a problem. To retain a RFA player's rights you have to make a QO before July 1st, or else they become a UFA and you lose them for nothing. There's also nothing saying that a RFA player has to accept their QO, and in the case of DeBrincat it would be surprising if that's the direction he really wants to go. There's a lot of risk to him in a 1yr contract with no trade protection, so I could see him pushing for a long-term deal either with OTT or a preferred trade destination.

Hey, donkey man!
- Whatisavailable

You do not even understand the process. Sad.

I don't remember you ever making a cogent argument against any of the stuff I was saying. You just always posted a donkey to sum up your thought process in what you seemed to think was an intelligent response. I have to agree. You do have a hard time understanding.
- Whatisavailable

You receive the donkey as you and Eeyore have a tremendous amount in common.

It's not a problem. To retain a RFA player's rights you have to make a QO before July 1st, or else they become a UFA and you lose them for nothing. There's also nothing saying that a RFA player has to accept their QO, and in the case of DeBrincat it would be surprising if that's the direction he really wants to go. There's a lot of risk to him in a 1yr contract with no trade protection, so I could see him pushing for a long-term deal either with OTT or a preferred trade destination.
- khawk

You.ve got it exactly. DeBrincat knows that if he just accepts the QO without an extension he will play out another year on the second line which makes 40+ goals very difficult to achieve which has consequences for him in the FA market.

If he's got Norris as his center well Norris is not a setup guy. Norris is a shooter. The Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson line worked because Batherson and Tkachuk were both setup guys.

Let's say you put that line back together and move Stutzle and Giroux to play with DeBrincat. Two distributors with a shooter. Maybe, but how does that make both Stutzle and Giroux feel demoted to the second line to appease DeBrincat? Plus you've still got PP issues. Norris wants to be on the number 1PP. So does Stutzle. OK so you take Batherson off so you've got room for DeBrincat. You're messing with the chemistry big time.

DeBrincat is a good player in spite of what you think I think. He just doesn't fit. A nine million dollar player should be driving a line. You shouldn't have to be messing with your team's chemistry to try and find him people that will make him actualize.

This team needs a reliable starter and some depth scoring and maybe a top six guy who can take some of the physical heat off of Tkachuk. They need to get out in front of the Sanderson contract like they did with Stutzle. They need to lock down an excellent number 3C in Pinto long term before that also gets expensive. They need depth scoring. These things cost money. Send DeBrincat on his way.

Who knows. Maybe DeBrincat and/or his wife don't want to make their lives in Ottawa. It wouldn't be the first time American born players chose not to play for a Canadian based team. One can only hope.

Stanley Cup in the palm of their hands. So close but maybe with Dorion trying to save his job so far away.

It is a process and everyone needs for it to play out including DeBrincat and his agent. Folks get too hung up on the qualifying offer (QO) thinking that the dollar value of the QO becomes the average annual salary (AAV) of the deal over the contract lifetime. Many deals are front end loaded. For example, you could go 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5.

The AAV in the example would work out to $7m with those numbers, a bit higher than Giroux but below Stutzle, Tkachuk, Chabot and Norris. If you out another $8m into the total package you get an $8m AAV.

It s fairly easy to make the numbers work that are fair to DeBrincat and fair to the team and his team mates.

Can you work it work it out? Or, do you want to work it out, a very different questions.

I would like for them to resign DeBrincat to a fair contract. But, I do not want them to resign DeBrincat if it comprises their ability to extend Sanderson, Pinto and Chychrun on long term deals.

You.ve got it exactly. DeBrincat knows that if he just accepts the QO without an extension he will play out another year on the second line which makes 40+ goals very difficult to achieve which has consequences for him in the FA market.

If he's got Norris as his center well Norris is not a setup guy. Norris is a shooter. The Tkachuk, Norris and Batherson line worked because Batherson and Tkachuk were both setup guys.

Let's say you put that line back together and move Stutzle and Giroux to play with DeBrincat. Two distributors with a shooter. Maybe, but how does that make both Stutzle and Giroux feel demoted to the second line to appease DeBrincat? Plus you've still got PP issues. Norris wants to be on the number 1PP. So does Stutzle. OK so you take Batherson off so you've got room for DeBrincat. You're messing with the chemistry big time.

DeBrincat is a good player in spite of what you think I think. He just doesn't fit. A nine million dollar player should be driving a line. You shouldn't have to be messing with your team's chemistry to try and find him people that will make him actualize.

This team needs a reliable starter and some depth scoring and maybe a top six guy who can take some of the physical heat off of Tkachuk. They need to get out in front of the Sanderson contract like they did with Stutzle. They need to lock down an excellent number 3C in Pinto long term before that also gets expensive. They need depth scoring. These things cost money. Send DeBrincat on his way.

Who knows. Maybe DeBrincat and/or his wife don't want to make their lives in Ottawa. It wouldn't be the first time American born players chose not to play for a Canadian based team. One can only hope.

Stanley Cup in the palm of their hands. So close but maybe with Dorion trying to save his job so far away.
- Whatisavailable

Not unreasonable. Good effort.

I think Dorion will sign DeBrincat to a fair contract or flip him in a fair deal.

If he gets traded, a bunch of folks will holler that he got traded for less than he cost. So what? An asset is an asset is an asset and is worth what the market will pay at any given time. Regardless of what happens in contracting for DeBrincat today the original trade for him was a genius business move by Dorion. Signing Stutzle, Giroux and trading for DeBrincat breathed life back into this franchise. We just finished a season that was far better than what we were expecting at this time last year. Now, the franchise and LeBreton rights are about to be sold for an amount that is likely in the $1b range.

This has been a tremendously important year for the Sens. They can flourish as a franchise. Some folks forget that they led the league in attendance in the prime years of the Pizza line. It is about to happen again.

But your unsubstantiated blanket statement that the DeBrincat trade was "awful" along with your incessant juvenile mockery of his height just reeks of a personal bias against the player.
- khawk

Obsessive compulsive disorder and a basket of mental disorders are likely more at play than a personal bias against Debrincat. Whatisavailable also gets triggered if there is any criticism of Chabot.

Obsessive compulsive disorder and a basket of mental disorders are likely more at play than a personal bias against Debrincat. Whatisavailable also gets triggered if there is any criticism of Chabot.
- SensFan25

His comments a few months ago generally on sexual assault, the comments regarding the nature of the alleged assault, and the scaled back comments since, are all very unfortunate.

if you're all bored in here, head on over to the Penguins thread.
I kicked a hornets nest.
I thought I was being objective and fair.
Apparently not.

if you're all bored in here, head on over to the Penguins thread.
I kicked a hornets nest.
I thought I was being objective and fair.
Apparently not.
- Octavarium

"Too soon" might be the prevailing sentiment. But there's little question that PIT will be one of the first teams on the block when it comes to making room for the younger emerging Eastern Conference teams. The fact that both FLA/BUF caught up to them in the wild card race is pretty indicative of where they're at. Blowing your season by losing your final 2 games to CHI/CBJ is ridiculous... especially when those teams probably regret winning those games, as it bumped them to 2nd/3rd respectively in terms of odds to land Connor Bedard.

Given that PIT/ANA were the final two teams in the Crosby sweepstakes, how ironic would it be if PIT handed Bedard to ANA by virtue of these two losses 18yrs later?

Great read and nod to Andy .!!
Now if I was going to movie Kat I think looking and talking to either the rangers or Seattle for 1 of their rfa players would be the way to go the rangers have to sign Lafrenier who will be a 6-8m player on their 3rd line behind Panarin and Krieder where Kat can slot into the RW and bolster their weak right side and Lafrenier would benefit being in our age range and caliber of players we have moving forward . Seattle on the other hand has more cap and would benefit with a superstar name like Kat to draw more people and playing the go to sniper for Matty to feed . I'd thin Shane Wright would be the rfa to target from them with the potential skill set he has and how badly they managed him this past year he would fit into our age group and skill and both players would greatly benefit from having Giroux as a teammate to learn the game from

some excellent news

Senators GM Pierre Dorion confirms Cam Talbot will not return next season

"We had a good discussion, not that I want to get into details. We offer a one year deal in January. They wanted a two year deal, no progress was made," Dorion said.

we can be thankful talbot stuck to his guns

Great read and nod to Andy .!!
Now if I was going to movie Kat I think looking and talking to either the rangers or Seattle for 1 of their rfa players would be the way to go the rangers have to sign Lafrenier who will be a 6-8m player on their 3rd line behind Panarin and Krieder where Kat can slot into the RW and bolster their weak right side and Lafrenier would benefit being in our age range and caliber of players we have moving forward . Seattle on the other hand has more cap and would benefit with a superstar name like Kat to draw more people and playing the go to sniper for Matty to feed . I'd thin Shane Wright would be the rfa to target from them with the potential skill set he has and how badly they managed him this past year he would fit into our age group and skill and both players would greatly benefit from having Giroux as a teammate to learn the game from
- roadzy

I was thinking the same teams and players as well. Rangers are tough with the cap and the Sens would have to take back another chunk of salary to make something work.

Great read and nod to Andy .!!
Now if I was going to movie Kat I think looking and talking to either the rangers or Seattle for 1 of their rfa players would be the way to go the rangers have to sign Lafrenier who will be a 6-8m player on their 3rd line behind Panarin and Krieder where Kat can slot into the RW and bolster their weak right side and Lafrenier would benefit being in our age range and caliber of players we have moving forward . Seattle on the other hand has more cap and would benefit with a superstar name like Kat to draw more people and playing the go to sniper for Matty to feed . I'd thin Shane Wright would be the rfa to target from them with the potential skill set he has and how badly they managed him this past year he would fit into our age group and skill and both players would greatly benefit from having Giroux as a teammate to learn the game from
- roadzy

theres no chance in any universe Laf get 6-8M, he is a 3rd line player with 3rd line player numbers

theres no chance in any universe Laf get 6-8M, he is a 3rd line player with 3rd line player numbers
- Mithos

I did not read it as $8m this year. Laf plays 3rd line minutes. Gets little to no power play time and scored 17 goals. He should get similar money to Pinto...maybe Batherson. But he is coming along pretty nice and I expect one day (soon) he will be an $8m player.

I would risk doing Laf for DeBrincat. But it does not work for Rangers. They would need to add another salary coming back. Really hard for them to construct a deal that can work for them.

I did not read it as $8m this year. Laf plays 3rd line minutes. Gets little to no power play time and scored 17 goals. He should get similar money to Pinto...maybe Batherson. But he is coming along pretty nice and I expect one day (soon) he will be an $8m player.

I would risk doing Laf for DeBrincat. But it does not work for Rangers. They would need to add another salary coming back. Really hard for them to construct a deal that can work for them.
- spatso

the fact they did not put a 1st OA pick on either PP lines should tell you something right there. Laf should be nowhere near 4 or 5M on his next contract. Laf is not worth a 40 goal scorer jeez....

Good blog!

The Anderson moment was a nice way to end the season. In a way, it kind of felt like the final farewell to the last “good guy” from the “old” Senator days. Part of me feels like this club has almost too much nostalgia for the great Senators past and it makes it hard to move on and welcome the next generation. I’m guilty of that sometimes.

It’s nice the season opened with Alfie dropping the puck, seeing Neil get recognized, and ended with Anderson retiring. There is not much left to reflect on and you can only focus on the future.

Anderson was a great goaltender for this team but not enough to warrant a jersey retirement for me. Would be a great addition for the Ring of Honour, if that is something the club wishes to continue.

Regarding Debrincat, it’s a conundrum. I am not sure you’ll find the perfect solution. He is a very good player, and you’d likely notice the loss if he were to be moved. However, he should be able to command a decent package in return. However, how many teams have a cap space and assets (that the Sens need) to give up?

People will say Norris will replace his production, which is fair, but wasn’t it nice to have someone this year replace the production of an injured Norris? What a strong forward group it could be with both in the lineup.

If he were to be extended, you put yourself in a tight position cap-wise and gambling that prospects pan out for you for several positions.

I am not sure I have a huge opinion either way. He had moments where it seemed like a silly notion to not lock him up but he also had moments where you could say it wouldn’t make a huge difference.

Ultimately, one way or the other, this move could be the breaking point for this team being a contender.

the fact they did not put a 1st OA pick on either PP lines should tell you something right there. Laf should be nowhere near 4 or 5M on his next contract. Laf is not worth a 40 goal scorer jeez....
- Mithos

Every agent knows the cap is headed to $96m over the next couple seasons, they all go to sleep calculating the raw numbers. $4m + is what I think Pinto will get. It is not excessive for a 3rd line centre that can step up and give you top 6 minutes when needed.