I have no issue with Torts. OT deployment has become insane, all for trying something but it’s gone too far. But that’s helped the tank, when things actually matter, hopefully he makes the proper adjustment
- ClaudeFather

He’s not perfect by any means but he provides at least some semblance of direction for this severely misguided org. It sure beats the hell out of whatever we were working with hiring AV.

People grabbed pitchforks when he sat Sanheim in Calgary. They act like they have any idea about that relationship, how the player conducts himself off the ice, his attitude, work ethic, etc. all of these things that would play into a coaches decision to do what he does.

To have some folks in here speaking with such certainty regarding any decision he’s made is laughable at best and ignorant at worst. They are basically saying they can coach better than a winning NHL coach. It’s hysterical and embarrassing at the same time.

The truth is not one of us in the room knows exactly wtf goes on but some of us like to pretend they grasp every facet of these relationships off the ice

He’s not perfect by any means but he provides at least some semblance of direction for this severely misguided org. It sure beats the he’ll out of whatever we were working with hiring AV.

People grabbed pitchforks when he sat Sanheim in Calgary. They act like they have any idea about that relationship, how the player conducts himself off the ice, his attitude, work ethic, etc. all of these things that would play into a coaches decision to do what he does.

To have some folks in here speaking with such certainty regarding any decision he’s made is laughable at best and ignorant at worst. They are basically saying they can coach better than a winning NHL coach. It’s hysterical and embarrassing at the same time.

The truth is not one of us in the room knows exactly wtf goes on but some of us like to pretend they grasp every facet of these relationships off the ice
- black_francis

It’s absurd, some real hockey executives on this board 😂

It’s absurd, some real hockey executives on this board 😂
- ClaudeFather

I’ll never pretend to know what I don’t know

or more importantly what I cant know

No thanks. I was referring to Cates impact as a defensive center on the Flyers this year.
- NC Flyers Fan

his defensive work this year has been excellent as he has gone against tough matchups for the majority of the season. only has potential to grow in this role. bt as a rookie, playing a new position i have no clue why people are complaining about him. this is the part of frost's game that needs to improve.

his defensive work this year has been excellent as he has gone against tough matchups for the majority of the season. only has potential to grow in this role. bt as a rookie, playing a new position i have no clue why people are complaining about him. this is the part of frost's game that needs to improve.
- Peter Richards

Some people dislike Torts so much they are willing to turn a positive into a negative everyday on this board

Every. Day.

Regarding Frost, these same people act like the angry dad at their kids little league game mad that the coach isn’t letting their kid be the pitcher or the short stop. (frank)ing yawn

The poster I responded to highlighted the point about proper slotting. Most NHL rosters are flawed with poor slotting not so much by design but by necessity. It’s not fair to look at one game but Cates was 5th in ice time among forward last night. If Torts puts Frost, Hayes and Laughton as the centers and Cates at LW on the 3rd line it is better. But like the poster said, it affects the C position. Is it better with Cates out of there? Neither Frost nor Hayes and Laughton are 1C’s so how much better is it? I would say marginally. It doesn’t move the needle today on this team.Next year could be different and slotting Cates at LW could matter more.
- Minnyhock

The real disagreement is whether or not it actually harms Cates development. It’s impossible to prove. I maintain that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. The lesser argument is whether Cates can be an effective 3C if the Flyer’s had another better center to slot him correctly. I really don’t know but can’t deny that he can handle the defensive responsibilities very well. However, I think that even if he switches back to LW, he at least expanded his toolbox and can fill-in at C for injuries if needed.

The real disagreement is whether or not it actually harms Cates development. It’s impossible to prove. I maintain that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. The lesser argument is whether Cates can be an effective 3C if the Flyer’s had another better center to slot him correctly. I really don’t know but can’t deny that he can handle the defensive responsibilities very well. However, I think that even if he switches back to LW, he at least expanded his toolbox and can fill-in at C for injuries if needed.
- NC Flyers Fan

you can see how much york is struggling from starting in the ahl.

I would disagree. Cates at center in the top 9 doesn't move the needle. Cates at LW on line 3 could very well move the needle. Not in and of itself without a quality top 6 to go along with it. Players like Cates can make a team as he adds that quality depth. Here is the issue. Cates scores at a pedestrian level as 1C playing with the top offensive players on the team getting top ice time. What level does he score at as a 3C? Does that rate go up or down?
- MJL

he's a rookie, playing a new position going against mcdavid and mathews and crosby. he is a plus player. comapre his first year to coots, who took 7 seasons to score above 40 points.

Some people dislike Torts so much they are willing to turn a positive into a negative everyday on this board

Every. Day.

Regarding Frost, these same people act like the angry dad at their kids little league game mad that the coach isn’t letting their kid be the pitcher or the short stop. (frank)ing yawn
- black_francis

only happens when frost scores as well it seems. not saying he doesn't have skill, just needs to work on his defense a bit. that levels he can be a 2c.

What we really need to do is take lottery-winning lessons from PIT, NJD, NYR, and EDM.
- copelal

We don't tank. That's why the Hockey Gods have rewarded us with franchise changing players like Mel Bridgeman, JVR, and Nolan Patrick.

you can see how much york is struggling from starting in the ahl.

- Peter Richards

Exactly though…sometimes although maybe a person would make a different choice themselves, it’s half a dozen of one versus six of the other. It was fine. York doing well.

IMO, Cates will do well even if he plays LW later. Early in the season, I did worry a little about him playing too many difficult minutes as a rookie but the coaches seemed to try to balance it and Laughts took on many too.

We don't tank. That's why the Hockey Gods have rewarded us with franchise changing players like Mel Bridgeman, JVR, and Nolan Patrick.
- daddytc

almost any other year picking 2nd overall it's a different story. shame really. but hoping the conspiracy theory is right..if so should be us and habs getting one two this year.

The real disagreement is whether or not it actually harms Cates development. It’s impossible to prove. I maintain that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. The lesser argument is whether Cates can be an effective 3C if the Flyer’s had another better center to slot him correctly. I really don’t know but can’t deny that he can handle the defensive responsibilities very well. However, I think that even if he switches back to LW, he at least expanded his toolbox and can fill-in at C for injuries if needed.
- NC Flyers Fan

having experience in multiple positions at the nhl level can only improve how a player thinks the game. he's more aware of other players jobs on the ice and how to better support them. Torts obviously sees Cates has the maturity and versatility to handle these responsibilities in a season that's missing key players and a season where figuring out who/what sticks is the point.

but somehow we are supposed to believe that in a season where Cates has risen to the challenge and obviously gained his coaches confidence with his consistent play and even earned Selke votes that he's being hurt in his development

Exactly though…sometimes although maybe a person would make a different choice themselves, it’s half a dozen of one versus six of the other. It was fine. York doing well.

IMO, Cates will do well even if he plays LW later. Early in the season, I did worry a little about him playing too many difficult minutes as a rookie but the coaches seemed to try to balance it and Laughts took on many too.
- NC Flyers Fan

absolutely. and if coots was here which he should be next year, his load will be lightened a little. i would even like to see him on coots wing with tip or tk. but also if you do have cates and coots in the middle, defense isn't an issue. why not have the flexibility. IMO he has been better defensively this year than the rest of the centers on the team. G never played center really before the nhl, was primarily a rw in juniors. took him a little adjustment and yes they are different players...but still

It’s absurd, some real hockey executives on this board 😂
- ClaudeFather

You don't have to be a hockey executive to realize how foolish your above reply makes one look.

The real disagreement is whether or not it actually harms Cates development. It’s impossible to prove. I maintain that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. The lesser argument is whether Cates can be an effective 3C if the Flyer’s had another better center to slot him correctly. I really don’t know but can’t deny that he can handle the defensive responsibilities very well. However, I think that even if he switches back to LW, he at least expanded his toolbox and can fill-in at C for injuries if needed.
- NC Flyers Fan

Why don't we hold each other's opinions to the same standard. You feel that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. Is that possible to prove or impossible? What is more important. Having a player expand his tool box by playing multiple positions. Or doing what is best to maximize the development of a player by playing him in the best position and role for his skill set?

You don't have to be a hockey executive to realize how foolish your above reply makes one look.
- MJL

You should have applied for GM bud

Exactly though…sometimes although maybe a person would make a different choice themselves, it’s half a dozen of one versus six of the other. It was fine. York doing well.

IMO, Cates will do well even if he plays LW later. Early in the season, I did worry a little about him playing too many difficult minutes as a rookie but the coaches seemed to try to balance it and Laughts took on many too.
- NC Flyers Fan

Stating that despite whatever happened in the past, the player is now doing fine is not an intelligent argument. It ignores the possibility that the player could be doing better and could be further advanced had that not happened earlier in his development.

You should have applied for GM bud
- ClaudeFather

I would've done better than Fletcher.

only happens when frost scores as well it seems. not saying he doesn't have skill, just needs to work on his defense a bit. that levels he can be a 2c.
- Peter Richards

i totally agree and I am not down on Frost whatsoever. This year was a step in the right direction and I hope he succeeds here. I have no pony in that race.

Stating that despite whatever happened in the past, the player is now doing fine is not an intelligent argument. It ignores the possibility that the player could be doing better and could be further advanced had that not happened earlier in his development.
- MJL

your entire premise of "what-ifs" whether its regarding limiting Cates to LW or making sure Frost has "better linemates" is all pointless speculation for the sake of speculating.

Maybe if Cates only played LW he'd be worse off, feeling the heat of competition against other wingers, not getting the same ice time as he's getting now, etc.

Like, what are you even arguing? Torts ruined Cates? That's the hill you're dying on when as a rookie he got Selke votes learning on the job. That's the takeaway?

give me a (frank)ing break

Why don't we hold each other's opinions to the same standard. You feel that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. Is that possible to prove or impossible? What is more important. Having a player expand his tool box by playing multiple positions. Or doing what is best to maximize the development of a player by playing him in the best position and role for his skill set?
- MJL

what is known is what he has done on the ice this year. adapted well to the new position while going against the other teams top line. you cannot prove that playing him at center has limited his development or that he could've developed more at lw. just pure speculation on your part. since he has played at center please explain how/where his development was delayed. not arguing off speculation of what you think would've happened.

I would've done better than Fletcher.
- MJL

i submit you would have done worse than the custodians at the wells fargo center

to quote you, you're embarrassing yourself

again

Why don't we hold each other's opinions to the same standard. You feel that Cates learning center in a year in which the Flyers are very clearly not a playoff team was fine. Is that possible to prove or impossible? What is more important. Having a player expand his tool box by playing multiple positions. Or doing what is best to maximize the development of a player by playing him in the best position and role for his skill set?
- MJL

1. Impossible, both are opinions.

2. Toss up. It’s a personal preference, but I think expanding the tool box first has value. They may continue development by maximizing his skill set. He is just a rookie.

Our opinions and preferences disagree; that is why it is good to have a discussion. I feel like I have expressed the reasons for my position, and I understand yours so all is well.

i totally agree and I am not down on Frost whatsoever. This year was a step in the right direction and I hope he succeeds here. I have no pony in that race.
- black_francis

niether am i. i do want more out of him. he's been complaining all year about cates role just cause he want frost to play higher in the lineup. with frost's confidence, i'll speculate and say that would've been bad for his development to get caved going against tougher competition.