Better slotting would probably help that too. The problem with putting a leaky center in place of Cates would affect everyone but…Would Frost have to play more in the defensive end because of that hypothetical center’s line getting caved it? How will that affect him and his line? Cates stats this season also include Selke level defensive work even though he is slotted too high. The impact of hypothetically changing the lineup is hard to measure, but it has turned out well, IMO, with the way they chose to deploy Cates.
- NC Flyers Fan

Solid points. While I think LW is the best fit for Cates, the bump in scoring you may get doesn’t really offset the defensive game he brings as a center. Cates has never been a good goal scorer anywhere. His best goal total in high school was 20. Solid but nothing more. On this Flyer roster Cates on LW or C doesn’t move the needle.

title is a metaphor for most all Flyers things


https://phillyhockeynow.c...3aTHMasS4vWRN-KIClaPBx9hM

Better slotting would probably help that too. The problem with putting a leaky center in place of Cates would affect everyone but…Would Frost have to play more in the defensive end because of that hypothetical center’s line getting caved it? How will that affect him and his line? Cates stats this season also include Selke level defensive work even though he is slotted too high. The impact of hypothetically changing the lineup is hard to measure, but it has turned out well, IMO, with the way they chose to deploy Cates.
- NC Flyers Fan

What stats are you referring to that show Selke level defensive work?

I believe that Provorov is going to be moved. There is a flip side to that though. Unless some other move is made to compensate. They run the risk of doing what they did to Provrov to other young players. Such as York.
- MJL

yeah I already said this was going to happen. I must be right again.

and, for your own health, you might want to take a deep breath. Torts isn't going anywhere. He may very well end up as pres of hockey ops, in which case you'll likely have an aneurysm

Solid points. While I think LW is the best fit for Cates, the bump in scoring you may get doesn’t really offset the defensive game he brings as a center. Cates has never been a good goal scorer anywhere. His best goal total in high school was 20. Solid but nothing more. On this Flyer roster Cates on LW or C doesn’t move the needle.
- Minnyhock

I would disagree. Cates at center in the top 9 doesn't move the needle. Cates at LW on line 3 could very well move the needle. Not in and of itself without a quality top 6 to go along with it. Players like Cates can make a team as he adds that quality depth. Here is the issue. Cates scores at a pedestrian level as 1C playing with the top offensive players on the team getting top ice time. What level does he score at as a 3C? Does that rate go up or down?

What stats are you referring to that show Selke level defensive work?
- MJL

Here is an example, Dom L. from the Athletic tracks player impact to give opinion on who statistically deserves consideration for NHL awards.

This is an excerpt from the article in regards to the Selke:
The most curious name on the list has to be Philadelphia’s Noah Cates. With Sean Couturier out, someone had to step up defensively and Cates has done shockingly well. With Cates on the ice, the Flyers allow just 1.69 goals against per 60 and 2.47 expected goals against per 60, both of which are among the team’s best. Relative to teammates, Cates’ impact on goals against ranks fourth in the league while his impact on expected goals against ranks 14th. That’s in relatively tough minutes in a defensive role. He won’t get much love this year, but his presence on the list so deep into the season means he’s worth keeping an eye on in the future. The Flyers might have a hidden defensive gem on their hands.

https://theathletic.com/4...ource=user_shared_article

Here is an example, Dom L. from the Athletic tracks player impact to give opinion on who statistically deserves consideration for NHL awards.

This is an excerpt from the article in regards to the Selke:
The most curious name on the list has to be Philadelphia’s Noah Cates. With Sean Couturier out, someone had to step up defensively and Cates has done shockingly well. With Cates on the ice, the Flyers allow just 1.69 goals against per 60 and 2.47 expected goals against per 60, both of which are among the team’s best. Relative to teammates, Cates’ impact on goals against ranks fourth in the league while his impact on expected goals against ranks 14th. That’s in relatively tough minutes in a defensive role. He won’t get much love this year, but his presence on the list so deep into the season means he’s worth keeping an eye on in the future. The Flyers might have a hidden defensive gem on their hands.

https://theathletic.com/4...ource=user_shared_article
- NC Flyers Fan

You said he had Selke level stats. Selke level stats are not the best on the team.

Here is the comparison for you.

Patrice Bergeron

1.29 GA/60 2.07 xGA/60

Here is Couturier when he won the Selke in 2020

2.11 GA/60 2.17 xGA/60



The author is foolish in using relative to teammates stats with the Flyers. Cates is a strong player away from the puck but he is not Selke level.

You said he had Selke level stats. Selke level stats are not the best on the team.

Here is the comparison for you.

Patrice Bergeron

1.29 GA/60 2.07 xGA/60

The author is foolish in using relative to teammates stats with the Flyers. Cates is a strong player away from the puck but he is not Selke level.
- MJL

We were talking about Cates impact on the Flyers. Exactly that. I said nothing about comparing him to Bergeron.

We were talking about Cates impact on the Flyers. Exactly that. I said nothing about comparing him to Bergeron.
- NC Flyers Fan

You said he had Selke level stats. So doesn't it then make it a fair comparison to compare stats to the 5 time Selke award winner and the pre-emptive favorite to win the award again this year?

My issue is not continuing to push a player. It's the method and way that it's done.
- MJL

you act like you're in the dressing room and know everything that is said behind the scenes. you also act like you're the one watching Frost practice day in and day out and seeing everything the coach sees.

you are so far removed from the team yet your massively inflated ego is calling shots from your computer screen, dictating what is right or wrong. it's quite pathetic.

also consider whining less when it comes to the coach. it's unbearable

You said he had Selke level stats. So doesn't it then make it a fair comparison to compare stats to the 5 time Selke award winner and the pre-emptive favorite to win the award again this year?
- MJL

lol

it kinda sounds like you're forcing this narrative. the fact is Cates got selke votes. now you want to compare a perennial selke winner and HOFer to a player literally learning the position on the job, who has had some success?

you're losing it

You said he had Selke level stats. So doesn't it then make it a fair comparison to compare stats to the 5 time Selke award winner and the pre-emptive favorite to win the award again this year?
- MJL

No thanks. I was referring to Cates impact as a defensive center on the Flyers this year.

I still wish that the feltch had grabbed eli tolvanen when he was on waivers.
Thank goodness we got mcewen and patrick brown instead!

He has what... 15 goals since joining Seattle?
Hak didn't do well here but he has done a hell of a job with the kids up in Seattle. He also had a crap team here and had the three advisors making bonehead moves.
But yeah, as a preds fan, he would have been a hell of a pick up FOR FREE

I would disagree. Cates at center in the top 9 doesn't move the needle. Cates at LW on line 3 could very well move the needle. Not in and of itself without a quality top 6 to go along with it. Players like Cates can make a team as he adds that quality depth. Here is the issue. Cates scores at a pedestrian level as 1C playing with the top offensive players on the team getting top ice time. What level does he score at as a 3C? Does that rate go up or down?
- MJL

The poster I responded to highlighted the point about proper slotting. Most NHL rosters are flawed with poor slotting not so much by design but by necessity. It’s not fair to look at one game but Cates was 5th in ice time among forward last night. If Torts puts Frost, Hayes and Laughton as the centers and Cates at LW on the 3rd line it is better. But like the poster said, it affects the C position. Is it better with Cates out of there? Neither Frost nor Hayes and Laughton are 1C’s so how much better is it? I would say marginally. It doesn’t move the needle today on this team.Next year could be different and slotting Cates at LW could matter more.

No thanks. I was referring to Cates impact as a defensive center on the Flyers this year.
- NC Flyers Fan

You used it to try and make an argument for Cates playing at center. You said and I quote "Cates stats this season also include Selke level defensive work even though he is slotted too high" That is an incorrect statement. He doesn't have Selke level defensive stats. Not even close. He may have the best defensive stats for a forward on the team but he doesn't have Selke level defensive stats. In the same way we wouldn't say that Travis Konecny has Hart trophy level stats because he was the best player. When you invoke Selke talk, that is a league wide trophy given to the top defensive forward in the league. When you talk Selke concerning a player, one is automatically comparing that player to the top Selke level players in the league.

I am happy Cates is a good piece for a good team. I am happy frost and Tip are good pieces. Be thrilled if Foerster continues and is an impact player. Happy they have LD, goalie and wing depth. Happy the Phantoms have 7-8 potential NHL players. Happy for the 7th pick, happy for Cutter and happy the G trade got us a 1st and 3rd.

Now finish the fxcking job the right way.

The poster I responded to highlighted the point about proper slotting. Most NHL rosters are flawed with poor slotting not so much by design but by necessity. It’s not fair to look at one game but Cates was 5th in ice time among forward last night. If Torts puts Frost, Hayes and Laughton as the centers and Cates at LW on the 3rd line it is better. But like the poster said, it affects the C position. Is it better with Cates out of there? Neither Frost nor Hayes and Laughton are 1C’s so how much better is it? I would say marginally. It doesn’t move the needle today on this team.Next year could be different and slotting Cates at LW could matter more.
- Minnyhock

First of all, Wade Allison led all Flyers forward in EV ice time with over 20 minutes in the game. Not going to happen often. The context of the conversation was about what is best for the players development moving forward and was not limited to just this year.

Again, I never stated McAvoy was not a top d-man, only I wouldn't have given that contract so quickly as Boston did
- jd250

Please go and post that in a Bruins forum. Such stupidity shouldn't be confined to this small audience.

First of all, Wade Allison led all Flyers forward in EV ice time with over 20 minutes in the game. Not going to happen often. The context of the conversation was about what is best for the players development moving forward and was not limited to just this year.
- MJL

I agreed that Cates is a better fit at LW. My point is that it doesn’t matter much today, tomorrow or the rest of this season.

I agreed that Cates is a better fit at LW. My point is that it doesn’t matter much today, tomorrow or the rest of this season.
- Minnyhock

It may not matter in terms of the teams results but it does matter to Cates development as a player in my opinion. As I said many times and I made the point again today. The needs of the team should not trump what it best for an individual players development with a team in the Flyers position. Tortorella is playing Cates at center because he feels it is best for the team. He's got it backwards.

It may not matter in terms of the teams results but it does matter to Cates development as a player in my opinion. As I said many times and I made the point again today. The needs of the team should not trump what it best for an individual players development with a team in the Flyers position. Tortorella is playing Cates at center because he feels it is best for the team. He's got it backwards.
- MJL

Don’t disagree with the long view. Maybe Cates is just biden his time hoping Torts gets canned.

You used it to try and make an argument for Cates playing at center. You said and I quote "Cates stats this season also include Selke level defensive work even though he is slotted too high" That is an incorrect statement. He doesn't have Selke level defensive stats. Not even close. He may have the best defensive stats for a forward on the team but he doesn't have Selke level defensive stats. In the same way we wouldn't say that Travis Konecny has Hart trophy level stats because he was the best player. When you invoke Selke talk, that is a league wide trophy given to the top defensive forward in the league. When you talk Selke concerning a player, one is automatically comparing that player to the top Selke level players in the league.
- MJL

Selke level stats doesn’t mean you compare them to a player that the award could eventually be named after…

What I don’t understand is everyone complains about how this team is run behind the scenes and the people involved.

Then you have torts playing outside consultant and literally calling out departments of this org and saying there’s a lot to fix. As far as I’m concerned this is what we’ve wanted to happen. Look at all these front office changes since he’s been here saying it like it is.

Some of you just have a hard-on for this guy for whatever reason

What I don’t understand is everyone complains about how this team is run behind the scenes and the people involved.

Then you have torts playing outside consultant and literally calling out departments of this org and saying there’s a lot to fix. As far as I’m concerned this is what we’ve wanted to happen. Look at all these front office changes since he’s been here saying it like it is.

Some of you just have a hard-on for this guy for whatever reason
- black_francis

I have no issue with Torts. OT deployment has become insane, all for trying something but it’s gone too far. But that’s helped the tank, when things actually matter, hopefully he makes the proper adjustment

I have no issue with Torts. OT deployment has become insane, all for trying something but it’s gone too far. But that’s helped the tank, when things actually matter, hopefully he makes the proper adjustment
- ClaudeFather

That OT deployment shows a method to madness. It worked to perfection against the Wild.