Frost is an AHL player - Check

McAvoy is not a top tier d-man - Check

Risto is a good D-man - Check

your evaluations on NHL players is suspect at best
- corduroy

Again, I never stated McAvoy was not a top d-man, only I wouldn't have given that contract so quickly as Boston did. The context of the discussion was not about mcAvoy, it was about the ridiculous contracts that defenseman are getting in the NHL, at least ridiculous IMO. I don't believe you have to have a $9M+ defenseman on your team to win. I think instead you can have a really solid top 4 that are paid well.

And Again, Risto is one of the steadiest defenseman for the Flyers this year and is hands down the most improved player on the roster, its not even close. He finally has got some consistent coaching and its clearly paying off.

It's not because of Tortorella. If players like Couturier and Atkinson hadn't missed the season. Players like Tipett and Frost would've gotten a lot less playing time.
- MJL

the injuries really were a blessing in disguise.

Speaking of Panarin:

Before Torts: 0.93 pts/game
Under Torts: 1.05 pts/game
After Torts: 1.28 pts/game

Hmmmm .. this looks like a nice progression to me. POP! That is the sound of this ridiculous argument fizzling away.
- jd250

As you ignore the POP of Panarin scoring more after Tortorella. The difference between .93 and 1.05 isn't much. The difference between 1.05 and 1.28 is significant.

So much so that this is all you can do.


You said the same thing when myself and others, talked about Fletcher while you were claiming he put the team on the path to the cup
- MJL

I don't like playing the what-if game but I will stand by my statement that offseason Fletcher did a good job re-tooling the team to compete in Giroux's last season with the Flyers. Who knew AV lost the room and would get fired 20 games into the season, and not be replaced. Who knew Ellis would only play 5 games. Again, I don't have a problem with the moves Fletcher made that off-season, its what he did after things went south that turned me. And now we hear he may not have had a choice given the mandates from Scott and his minions.

“All evidence” doesn’t really exist. A person could try to weigh Cate’s defensive impact at center against his projected additional points on the wing, but it doesn’t take into account the movement’s affect on other players including Frost and whoever takes the other center spot. It is really hypothetical. And hypothetically, I disagree that Cates is harmed by playing center.
- NC Flyers Fan

Yes it does. We have a sample of what Cates can do playing on the wing. We see how his scoring rate has diminished significantly playing at center. We can look and see what natural skill set Cates has and what position that skill set fits. Why would Cates being moved to the wing, preferably playing with Frost, have a negative effect on Frost? What's the rationale on why it would. I need more than it might.

As you ignore the POP of Panarin scoring more after Tortorella. The difference between .93 and 1.05 isn't much. The difference between 1.05 and 1.28 is significant.
- MJL

Ah .. so you don't think the players Panarin got to play with in NY has anything to do with his numbers? The POP here is the ridiculous argument that Torts holds his players back. Its nonsense! Without Torts, your buddy Frost would be burried on the Phantoms right now.

Yes it does. We have a sample of what Cates can do playing on the wing. We see how his scoring rate has diminished significantly playing at center. We can look and see what natural skill set Cates has and what position that skill set fits. Why would Cates being moved to the wing, preferably playing with Frost, have a negative effect on Frost? What's the rationale on why it would. I need more than it might.
- MJL

We also see the same drop-off with Hayes when he moved back to center from wing. Its completely expected that playing center will diminish point production compared to wing given the additional defensive responsiblity involved. Plus before this season Cates has never played center so he is learning the position. I trust Torts and his staff's belief that Cates can be a great center in this league, we just need to give him time to learn the position and get comfortable, then the offense will come.

Again, I never stated McAvoy was not a top d-man, only I wouldn't have given that contract so quickly as Boston did. The context of the discussion was not about mcAvoy, it was about the ridiculous contracts that defenseman are getting in the NHL, at least ridiculous IMO. I don't believe you have to have a $9M+ defenseman on your team to win. I think instead you can have a really solid top 4 that are paid well.

And Again, Risto is one of the steadiest defenseman for the Flyers this year and is hands down the most improved player on the roster, its not even close. He finally has got some consistent coaching and its clearly paying off.
- jd250

Yes, you absolutely did. You flat out stated that McAvoy wasn't one of the top defenseman in the league.

It was proven that defenseman like McAvoy, Hamilton, Fix, Makar, etc are worth every penny of that money. Now it's certainly true that you can pay the wrong player that money. The right player however, is worth every penny. It's a player the Flyers need.

Ristolainen is not improved and is the same old stiff. Tortorella has dummied down the defensive scheme. It's clearly not paying off. He is a detriment to the team currently and to it's future. He's a player the team would move if they could without paying too heavy of a price.

Ah .. so you don't think the players Panarin got to play with in NY has anything to do with his numbers? The POP here is the ridiculous argument that Torts holds his players back. Its nonsense! Without Torts, your buddy Frost would be burried on the Phantoms right now.
- jd250

Nothing but rhetoric and short on facts.

Again, I never stated McAvoy was not a top d-man, only I wouldn't have given that contract so quickly as Boston did. The context of the discussion was not about mcAvoy, it was about the ridiculous contracts that defenseman are getting in the NHL, at least ridiculous IMO. I don't believe you have to have a $9M+ defenseman on your team to win. I think instead you can have a really solid top 4 that are paid well.

And Again, Risto is one of the steadiest defenseman for the Flyers this year and is hands down the most improved player on the roster, its not even close. He finally has got some consistent coaching and its clearly paying off.
- jd250

suspect

Another front office move…

https://twitter.com/adima...&t=QyCOD1csM3XBfH3b6QYeYA

It’s going to be helpful to have dedicated roles, a president and so forth. Hopefully, changes will be good.

FYI, Elliotte Friedman was saying the team wants to keep Sanheim and is ready to let Provy go, so maybe Danny shares that same "ridiculous rationalization".
- Tomahawk

he also said torts is the right coach for this team at this time.

We also see the same drop-off with Hayes when he moved back to center from wing. Its completely expected that playing center will diminish point production compared to wing given the additional defensive responsiblity involved. Plus before this season Cates has never played center so he is learning the position. I trust Torts and his staff's belief that Cates can be a great center in this league, we just need to give him time to learn the position and get comfortable, then the offense will come.
- jd250

The defensive liabilities have really hampered McDavids game. I mean if he was a winger hed put up 140 points easily

We also see the same drop-off with Hayes when he moved back to center from wing. Its completely expected that playing center will diminish point production compared to wing given the additional defensive responsiblity involved. Plus before this season Cates has never played center so he is learning the position. I trust Torts and his staff's belief that Cates can be a great center in this league, we just need to give him time to learn the position and get comfortable, then the offense will come.
- jd250

Doesn't matter if Hayes has a drop off. He's not a young player the team is trying to develop. He has no future here. How do you know that Tortorella and his staff believe that Cates can be a great center in this league? More hyperbole on your part. The great centers in this league are McDavid, Draisaitl, McKinnon, Crosby, Pettersson, Hughes etc. Surely you don't believe that Tortorella and his staff believe that Cates can be on that level. Then again, maybe you do. After all, you thought that Ristolainen was one of the best defenseman in the league and that Tortorella was the Jack Adams award winner hands down. Like the other poster said. You don't have a good track record.

The defensive liabilities have really hampered McDavids game. I mean if he was a winger hed put up 140 points easily
- corduroy

Another front office move…

https://twitter.com/adima...&t=QyCOD1csM3XBfH3b6QYeYA

It’s going to be helpful to have dedicated roles, a president and so forth. Hopefully, changes will be good.
- NC Flyers Fan

People around the Flyers keep insisting that Alyn McCauley's a genius hockey guy.

People around the Flyers keep insisting that Alyn McCauley's a genius hockey guy.
- Tomahawk

Like anything else with the Flyers I will believe it when I see it.

Last week there was no way Frost would be a Flyer next season
- corduroy

Déja vu. Hitchcock scared Justin Williams away so he could win something elsewhere.

The problem is that Torts forces all his players to conform to a "role". Sometimes those roles are consistent with a player's toolbox. Other times they're completely inconsistent like Laine net-front, Sedins killing penalties, Hayes as 3LW, TDA as 27min top-pair D, or Cates in the middle and on the top PP unit, etc.

He's a coach that can certainly get a questionable team up to a certain baseline of performance. But he's a coach that also drags good teams down to that same baseline (see: Canucks). The Flyers might benefit some from having him around right now, but he's gonna be holding a lot of these players back in the coming seasons if they don't nix him now.
- Tomahawk

I can see him doing some of that, not sure I buy it all, I wasn't in the room so who knows. I do know Torts has said about multiple players that he didnt want to them to lose what made them special, to not take risks. Torts mentioned TK specifically on multiple occasions. I could see him thinking Laine is one dimensional and over correcting him, Torts personality definitely would lend to that.

Who would you rather keep?

Frost or torts?


If one had to go....
- Bob Habib

I like Torts more than most on here but I'm taking Frost everyday of the week. Twice on Sunday.

We also see the same drop-off with Hayes when he moved back to center from wing. Its completely expected that playing center will diminish point production compared to wing given the additional defensive responsiblity involved. Plus before this season Cates has never played center so he is learning the position. I trust Torts and his staff's belief that Cates can be a great center in this league, we just need to give him time to learn the position and get comfortable, then the offense will come.
- jd250

Better slotting would probably help that too. The problem with putting a leaky center in place of Cates would affect everyone but…Would Frost have to play more in the defensive end because of that hypothetical center’s line getting caved it? How will that affect him and his line? Cates stats this season also include Selke level defensive work even though he is slotted too high. The impact of hypothetically changing the lineup is hard to measure, but it has turned out well, IMO, with the way they chose to deploy Cates.

As you ignore the POP of Panarin scoring more after Tortorella. The difference between .93 and 1.05 isn't much. The difference between 1.05 and 1.28 is significant.
- MJL

And William Karlsson went from 6 goals to 43!!! After he escaped Torts 200 feet doghouse hockey

People around the Flyers keep insisting that Alyn McCauley's a genius hockey guy.
- Tomahawk

Let’s hope.

Yyy

I'm laughing hysterically. Your take on this is that the organization had pretty much given up on Frost coming into this season? There is tons of information that tells you that is wrong. Unbelievable.
- MJL

100% ! Seems people here flip flop on him from game to game. We have a decent sample size of this kid and I like him.