I think Hart is a franchise goalie and it would be a huge mistake to trade him, no matter what the return is (except of course the Bedard pick). I also think it would be a huge mistake to trade Provorov because the Flyers have no one to replace his minutes at his level. Provey may not be great but he's solid and until the Flyers draft and develop a replacement, or have the cap space to sign his replacement, I think Provey should stay. Hayes is absolutely gone this off-season. I would entertain trading Laughton after the season he has had simply because you can see his replacement coming in Noah Cates.
- jd250

You never get better by trading your best players but if there is a time line for this team to get competitive again then some of the best players should be moved for younger assets that can build for the time line they have internally set. They may have to take a few steps back before going forward. What’s nice to see is that the young guys are now leading the charge so perhaps the steps back won’t be very steep.

That is false. Hextall did not have carte blanche to do whatever he wants. No GM does. Every GM answers to those above him. Every salary negotiation has to be approved by superiors. Every GM makes the final call on who to draft at the draft. To equate that with having the keys to the castle to do whatever he wanted is foolish.

At the end of the day the Flyers defense is a mess because of him? LOL. How was the defense when he took over? LOL
- MJL

14-15: Streit, del zotto, schultz, grossman, schenn, ghost, macdonald, colaiacovo, manning.

ghost only played 2 games, manning 11

when he took over (end of year but was involved in the mac trade end of year)

13-14: Timonen, streit, meszaros, coburn, grossman, schenn, gustafsson, macdonald, hal gill(6games)

14-15: Streit, del zotto, schultz, grossman, schenn, ghost, macdonald, colaiacovo, manning.

ghost only played 2 games, manning 11

when he took over (end of year but was involved in the mac trade end of year)

13-14: Timonen, streit, meszaros, coburn, grossman, schenn, gustafsson, macdonald, hal gill(6games)
- Peter Richards

The good ol' days when you either had Streit as #1 or Schenn as #1 D. What a disaster.

Remember Streit's injury? Detached pubic bone... how horrible that sounds.

The good ol' days when you either had Streit as #1 or Schenn as #1 D. What a disaster.

Remember Streit's injury? Detached pubic bone... how horrible that sounds.
- atibus

you misspelled timonen his injury was bad as well.

if it is correct with ellis and psoas tendinitis or what not, just a plethora of good d men with bad injuries once they play. pronger still the worst imo. still remember him yelling once hit in the eye.

schenn and grossman...the speed demons

You never get better by trading your best players but if there is a time line for this team to get competitive again then some of the best players should be moved for younger assets that can build for the time line they have internally set. They may have to take a few steps back before going forward. What’s nice to see is that the young guys are now leading the charge so perhaps the steps back won’t be very steep.
- landros 2

I just don't believe the time line is that far in the future. Drop Fantilli on this team next year and make a run at Damon Severson from the Devils in free agency and this team is right back in the thick of it. They got the goal tending, they have potentially three 30+ goal scorers, good young forward depth and Couturier coming back. This team is not so far away IMO. That is why this draft was so important, get that high end top pick and everything changes rapidly.

I think Hart is a franchise goalie and it would be a huge mistake to trade him, no matter what the return is (except of course the Bedard pick). I also think it would be a huge mistake to trade Provorov because the Flyers have no one to replace his minutes at his level. Provey may not be great but he's solid and until the Flyers draft and develop a replacement, or have the cap space to sign his replacement, I think Provey should stay. Hayes is absolutely gone this off-season. I would entertain trading Laughton after the season he has had simply because you can see his replacement coming in Noah Cates.
- jd250

The way Friedman explained it, Hart has one year left on his contract and he will want a much larger($$) contract. Is it worth it for the Flyers to have an expensive goalie during a rebuild? I say no, so they should trade him either this off season or during the trade deadline next season.

Friedman also said Provy told the team he wants out and it sounds like the Flyers are happy to oblige him.

You never get better by trading your best players but if there is a time line for this team to get competitive again then some of the best players should be moved for younger assets that can build for the time line they have internally set. They may have to take a few steps back before going forward. What’s nice to see is that the young guys are now leading the charge so perhaps the steps back won’t be very steep.
- landros 2

with tk i'm split. understand why they would want to keep the player, but also just look at history. smaller players like him that go to the tough areas usually don't last long into their 30's. guessing he will be in his 30's once this team is relevant again.

I just don't believe the time line is that far in the future. Drop Fantilli on this team next year and make a run at Damon Severson from the Devils in free agency and this team is right back in the thick of it. They got the goal tending, they have potentially three 30+ goal scorers, good young forward depth and Couturier coming back. This team is not so far away IMO. That is why this draft was so important, get that high end top pick and everything changes rapidly.
- jd250

They would have to get very lucky in the lottery to get Fantilli. Severson actually has to make it to free agency. This team is very far away. Adding two players does not instantly get them right back in the thick of it. They haven't legitimally been in the thick of it in over a decade.

The way Friedman explained it, Hart has one year left on his contract and he will want a much larger($$) contract. Is it worth it for the Flyers to have an expensive goalie during a rebuild? I say no, so they should trade him either this off season or during the trade deadline next season.

Friedman also said Provy told the team he wants out and it sounds like the Flyers are happy to oblige him.
- WhiskeyMan

If it were a down to the bones rebuild then yes, it would make sense to trade Hart. But the Flyers don't need this type of rebuild and thus I think their timeline is much sooner than it would be if they were Chicago for example. That is why I would keep Hart. As far as Provey, stuff happens all the time and things are said, but I think Torts has worked hard to smootht that over with him, so there is chance its just water under the bridge.

I just don't believe the time line is that far in the future. Drop Fantilli on this team next year and make a run at Damon Severson from the Devils in free agency and this team is right back in the thick of it. They got the goal tending, they have potentially three 30+ goal scorers, good young forward depth and Couturier coming back. This team is not so far away IMO. That is why this draft was so important, get that high end top pick and everything changes rapidly.
- jd250

You are much more optimistic than I am. I would love Fantilli or Bedard but I also need to be realistic. Nor should they be making any FA runs in the near or even non near future. They should be acquiring draft assets by the boatload.

I think you get a haul for TK now because in my mind the timeline is 5 years to relevance, then another few years to contender. And that all hinges on if they don't mess it up.

TK comes up for a new deal before that timeline and will command money that shouldn't be paid at that point in the team's development. The same argument can be made for Hart. What is the point of having a franchise goalie when by the time the team is good he will be past his prime and paid way too much?


They need to manage expectations and the cap not just not but for the future. Hart, TK, even Farabee could be seen as bad asset management. It will be just another case ALA Giroux and Voracek of wasting the primes of high priced players because they had no team around them.

Just my opinion.

They should be looking at moving TK, Hart, Provorov, Laughton, Risto, Sanheim, Angelo and Hayes.

That doesn't mean you HAVE to move them all. But you HAVE to look at trying to get good picks and maybe young prospects for them. If the deals suck, you keep them.

If it were a down to the bones rebuild then yes, it would make sense to trade Hart. But the Flyers don't need this type of rebuild and thus I think their timeline is much sooner than it would be if they were Chicago for example. That is why I would keep Hart. As far as Provey, stuff happens all the time and things are said, but I think Torts has worked hard to smootht that over with him, so there is chance its just water under the bridge.
- jd250

Provorov is going to be traded. Think about what the Flyers need to be a cup level team? They need elite players to go along with what they already have. The have Gauthier and whoever they draft in this upcoming draft. I think the Flyers have plenty of good young players with future potential in Tippett, Frost, Farabee and Foerster. Some decent defense prospects. Can we count on one of them to reach elite status? Not impossible but not likely. If Couturier comes back and can get close to what he was. Along with the continued growth of those young players. This team is likely to improve. Which means a lower draft pick. This team needs draft capital and they need it quickly. Or they better hope they hit big time on Gauthier and whomever they draft with the #1 in this upcoming draft.

They would have to get very lucky in the lottery to get Fantilli. Severson actually has to make it to free agency. This team is very far away. Adding two players does not instantly get them right back in the thick of it. They haven't legitimally been in the thick of it in over a decade.
- MJL

Its true the Flyers have not been in the thick of it since 2010 and even that run was a lucky one. Its also true that the Flyers would have to be extremely lucky at this point to get a player like Fantilli in this draft. And its also true that Severson might not get to free agency, though contract talks between him and the Devils have still not happened according to reports. My point is if by some miracle you could drop these players onto this current team, they would in fact be in the thick of it. That is how fast things can change when you got a solid core of players who are well coached. That is why I am not willing to concede that this Flyers team is many years away from contending again. They just need some luck for once, they are more than over due.

Provorov is going to be traded. Think about what the Flyers need to be a cup level team? They need elite players to go along with what they already have. The have Gauthier and whoever they draft in this upcoming draft. I think the Flyers have plenty of good young players with future potential in Tippett, Frost, Farabee and Foerster. Some decent defense prospects. Can we count on one of them to reach elite status? Not impossible but not likely. If Couturier comes back and can get close to what he was. Along with the continued growth of those young players. This team is likely to improve. Which means a lower draft pick. This team needs draft capital and they need it quickly. Or they better hope they hit big time on Gauthier and whomever they draft with the #1 in this upcoming draft.
- MJL

AHL star - NHL bust

Provorov is going to be traded. Think about what the Flyers need to be a cup level team? They need elite players to go along with what they already have. The have Gauthier and whoever they draft in this upcoming draft. I think the Flyers have plenty of good young players with future potential in Tippett, Frost, Farabee and Foerster. Some decent defense prospects. Can we count on one of them to reach elite status? Not impossible but not likely. If Couturier comes back and can get close to what he was. Along with the continued growth of those young players. This team is likely to improve. Which means a lower draft pick. This team needs draft capital and they need it quickly. Or they better hope they hit big time on Gauthier and whomever they draft with the #1 in this upcoming draft.
- MJL

Great post! I posted the other day that if the Flyers got say the 7th pick in this years draft, could they trade that pick along with their number 1 next season and Provey to get into the top 3 of this year's draft, and you responded that was not possible. So since you mentioned the Flyers need to get draft capital quickly, which I whole-heartedly agree with, what do you think the Flyers can realistically get for Provey if they packaged him with picks or a prospect?

AHL star - NHL bust
- corduroy

Oh no .. here we go

The way Friedman explained it, Hart has one year left on his contract and he will want a much larger($$) contract. Is it worth it for the Flyers to have an expensive goalie during a rebuild? I say no, so they should trade him either this off season or during the trade deadline next season.

Friedman also said Provy told the team he wants out and it sounds like the Flyers are happy to oblige him.
- WhiskeyMan

Hayes as well, just not a good fit at the moment and that there is definitely interest in him for those saying buyout. a buyout to me makes no sense. Provie is probably tired of losing. and of the two discussed he made it sound like the flyers were still high on sanhiem.

then he talked about torts in a good light and the young players that have done well under him. that he is the right coach for the team right now as we go through the rebuild.

Its true the Flyers have not been in the thick of it since 2010 and even that run was a lucky one. Its also true that the Flyers would have to be extremely lucky at this point to get a player like Fantilli in this draft. And its also true that Severson might not get to free agency, though contract talks between him and the Devils have still not happened according to reports. My point is if by some miracle you could drop these players onto this current team, they would in fact be in the thick of it. That is how fast things can change when you got a solid core of players who are well coached. That is why I am not willing to concede that this Flyers team is many years away from contending again. They just need some luck for once, they are more than over due.
- jd250

There you go again calling something that isn't, a fact. Severson is a nice player but he is not a player that elevates a team. He'll probably get drastically overpaid if he hits free agency. Things don't change that fast. There is a history in this league. Now to clarify, my definition of being in the thick of it, is being a legit challenger for the cup. That doesn't happen quick from where the Flyers are now. Everything will have to break pretty well just for them to get there in 5 years.
Connor McDavid didn't come in and instantly transform the Oilers into a cup team but you think Fantilli might?

Provorov is going to be traded. Think about what the Flyers need to be a cup level team? They need elite players to go along with what they already have. The have Gauthier and whoever they draft in this upcoming draft. I think the Flyers have plenty of good young players with future potential in Tippett, Frost, Farabee and Foerster. Some decent defense prospects. Can we count on one of them to reach elite status? Not impossible but not likely. If Couturier comes back and can get close to what he was. Along with the continued growth of those young players. This team is likely to improve. Which means a lower draft pick. This team needs draft capital and they need it quickly. Or they better hope they hit big time on Gauthier and whomever they draft with the #1 in this upcoming draft.
- MJL

they need to perform and prove it though. remember years ago, the potential of the d. well how did that turn out. future elite shut down man myers? sanhiem has seemed to plateau, provie no better than 4 years ago.

Great post! I posted the other day that if the Flyers got say the 7th pick in this years draft, could they trade that pick along with their number 1 next season and Provey to get into the top 3 of this year's draft, and you responded that was not possible. So since you mentioned the Flyers need to get draft capital quickly, which I whole-heartedly agree with, what do you think the Flyers can realistically get for Provey if they packaged him with picks or a prospect?
- jd250

They could get a 1st round pick for Provorov possibly but it's not likely to be a high first rounder. Maybe a decent prospect with it. Hart is really the biggest trade chip they might have. They need to look at moving him.

You are much more optimistic than I am. I would love Fantilli or Bedard but I also need to be realistic. Nor should they be making any FA runs in the near or even non near future. They should be acquiring draft assets by the boatload.

I think you get a haul for TK now because in my mind the timeline is 5 years to relevance, then another few years to contender. And that all hinges on if they don't mess it up.

TK comes up for a new deal before that timeline and will command money that shouldn't be paid at that point in the team's development. The same argument can be made for Hart. What is the point of having a franchise goalie when by the time the team is good he will be past his prime and paid way too much?


They need to manage expectations and the cap not just not but for the future. Hart, TK, even Farabee could be seen as bad asset management. It will be just another case ALA Giroux and Voracek of wasting the primes of high priced players because they had no team around them.

Just my opinion.

They should be looking at moving TK, Hart, Provorov, Laughton, Risto, Sanheim, Angelo and Hayes.

That doesn't mean you HAVE to move them all. But you HAVE to look at trying to get good picks and maybe young prospects for them. If the deals suck, you keep them.
- MBFlyerfan

The one thing I will agree with is no one on this team should be considered untouchable; the Flyers should listen to all offers that come their way. However if I were Briere I would have to have my doors blown off for me to trade Hart or TK. Eveyone else just give me fair value and they are yours. You ask what good is it to have a franchise goalie if your team is rebuilding. Well my answer is having the goalie greatly accelerates the rebuild timeline.

There you go again calling something that isn't, a fact. Severson is a nice player but he is not a player that elevates a team. He'll probably get drastically overpaid if he hits free agency. Things don't change that fast. There is a history in this league. Now to clarify, my definition of being in the thick of it, is being a legit challenger for the cup. That doesn't happen quick from where the Flyers are now. Everything will have to break pretty well just for them to get there in 5 years.
Connor McDavid didn't come in and instantly transform the Oilers into a cup team but you think Fantilli might?
- MJL

there are multiple examples and teams took different paths. edmonton is in the middle with one of the best players. arizona drafted high for years and have nothing really. jersey did theirs well, and the rangers did theirs quick with other savvy moves. boston turned theirs around quick.


just looking at rebuilds that are happening. glad we seem to have a direction so we're not like how i view the isleanders now. descent team but unless they get lucky not a top contender

You ask what good is it to have a franchise goalie if your team is rebuilding. Well my answer is having the goalie greatly accelerates the rebuild timeline.
- jd250

No, it really doesn't. How does having a franchise goalie help add the players you need up front and on defense? If anything, it hurts a rebuilding team as the better goaltending adds some wins and leads to a lower draft position.

Great post! I posted the other day that if the Flyers got say the 7th pick in this years draft, could they trade that pick along with their number 1 next season and Provey to get into the top 3 of this year's draft, and you responded that was not possible. So since you mentioned the Flyers need to get draft capital quickly, which I whole-heartedly agree with, what do you think the Flyers can realistically get for Provey if they packaged him with picks or a prospect?
- jd250

Why would any team worth its salt do that? The dropoff after the top 3 (maybe 4) is precipitous. None of the teams that will realistically get the top 3 pick in this years draft will be trading that pick unless the deal is INSANE. And then you have to look at it from the other side and ask why another team would do something INSANE to get the picks.

IMO Provy and our pick would not get it done, not by a longshot. Not to mention that the teams picking at those spots aren't in a position or should be acquiring a player like Provorov. It would make no sense for them. Just like it would make no sense for us to be doing the same type of deal if it were going the other way.

Why would any team worth its salt do that? The dropoff after the top 3 (maybe 4) is precipitous. None of the teams that will realistically get the top 3 pick in this years draft will be trading that pick unless the deal is INSANE. And then you have to look at it from the other side and ask why another team would do something INSANE to get the picks.

IMO Provy and our pick would not get it done, not by a longshot. Not to mention that the teams picking at those spots aren't in a position or should be acquiring a player like Provorov. It would make no sense for them. Just like it would make no sense for us to be doing the same type of deal if it were going the other way.
- MBFlyerfan

looking at other teams i don't even know where provie could possible go. alo tof the teams at the top have their mixes and are close to the cap and traded picks. it will be interesting to see where he and hayes land as i think they are the first two moves.

I get people think hart is our best trade chip, but historically goalies just don't get the same return. hoping his age improves this. Also think our returns may be ok just due to us having to take a contract back on hayes and provie. thinking of the schenn deal. not saying we will get two first rounders, but in that deal we did cause we have to take cocaine empire.

I think Hayes gets moved this offseason. They will retain some money and get a low return. I am fine with that.

Provorov also gets moved. They will get a first round pick and a prospect of some sort. The pick will be in the back half of the first round.

After that I am not sure of anything else. Those two moves would free up $11mil in space. I am not against spending it as long as it's nothing longterm.

I would like to see them use that space to take on a contract or two other teams do not want and get draft compensation. Like the Voracek deal with the Yotes.

I would like to see Angelo and Risto moved as well. Just do not see it happening with Risto. Angelo will probably a TDL move.

Keep playing the yutes.