I think most teams overvalue first round picks. Outside of the top 10, the chances of a player making the NHL, much less become a key player, is pretty low.

I wonder what the return would be if a team consistently traded their 1st round pick
(assuming they were a consistent playoff team picking after 16th) for young NHL ready talent instead of trading them for a veteran rental like the Penguins did throughout the 2010s.
- SuperHenderson13

There's your answer.

3C. That's the move. If I'm getting greedy, I want a better back up tender. I don't think Hexy will do much......if anything.
- madmike71

Yup...3C and some health...never know, might get outta first round....if not in 2nd wild card spot, that is hahah

3C. That's the move. If I'm getting greedy, I want a better back up tender. I don't think Hexy will do much......if anything.
- madmike71

Agree that's the best area to target. Don't think it does much if that guy is playing with some combination of Kapanen, Heinen, Carter, and McGinn. Need to add a second player.

Unfortunately Carter will be on that line if he's here and DOC will not so long as Sully is coaching.

I dont agree with this when Tanger, Petts and Petry are all healthy....the other two points for sure though...

EDIT: actually, as for whole new 3rd line ...perhaps subtraction of Carter would be addition. Time for him to enjoy nachos upstairs more evenings than not. He should be the 13th forward if the Archie and Kap are back. A vet that can go in the lineup here and there when need be.

Jake-Sid-Rak
Zuck-Geno-Rust
McGinn-Blue-Kap
DOC/Heiny-Poehling-Archie
Carter

I do think if the 4th line can get back to its ways before injuries that the 3rd line there could be hard to score against while chipping in some goals. We know Heiny is capable of good hockey and we started seeing him find his pulse again before the break....might continue....might not haha
- MattStrat

Let me restate that. The team needs a top pair defenseman to play with Letang if they want to go far. Pettersson has been great in his second pairing role but not as good when elevated. So we are back to Dumo.

Just too many holes to fix. Best they can hope is shore up the 3rd line and have a punchers chance because of the top 6 talent and Jarry stealing some games if he's healthy.

Let me restate that. The team needs a top pair defenseman to play with Letang if they want to go far. Pettersson has been great in his second pairing role but not as good when elevated. So we are back to Dumo.

Just too many holes to fix. Best they can hope is shore up the 3rd line and have a punchers chance because of the top 6 talent and Jarry stealing some games if he's healthy.
- Tojo.

Yeah I hear ya and pretty much agree to all of that.

When you compare all the different combos the Pens have had on back end so far this season at 5 on 5 having played at least 20 mins together (20 different combos in total), and looking at best xGF%, HDSC% and CF%, there's one name that's involved in either the top 2 or 3 at each of these categories...Ty Smith.

#freeTy

EDIT: Also...for xGF at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of two of the top 3 pairs (with either Smith or Petts)....for HDSC% at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of the 3rd best pair regarding this (with Smith)...for CF% at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of the 1st and 2nd best pair (with Smith or Petts).

I was happy when he resigned geno and letang and for the salary he negotiated, that was a total win. but to turn around and give that newfound money to kappy, ruutta and desmith and not trade dumo, thats the fail. I also dont think that sullivan and hextall/burke are on the same page. dumo should have been traded i the off season but sullivan calls him a "glue guy". and he is the locker room dj. --because that should be more imprtant than his less than ideal on ice performance.

sullivans game is based on speed, hextall went out and got heavier. i.e. friedman will hit someone but sullivan keeps playing ruhwedel. wont sit carter, wont call up nylander or puustinen. they do not see things similarly at all.

It could be worse, he could've tanked this year and selected Nolan Patrick.
- SuperHenderson13

The Flyers didn't tank that year, they finished 12th from the bottom. They just sucked.

Please try again.

I was happy when he resigned geno and letang and for the salary he negotiated, that was a total win. but to turn around and give that newfound money to kappy, ruutta and desmith and not trade dumo, thats the fail. I also dont think that sullivan and hextall/burke are on the same page. dumo should have been traded i the off season but sullivan calls him a "glue guy". and he is the locker room dj. --because that should be more imprtant than his less than ideal on ice performance.

sullivans game is based on speed, hextall went out and got heavier. i.e. friedman will hit someone but sullivan keeps playing ruhwedel. wont sit carter, wont call up nylander or puustinen. they do not see things similarly at all.
- i'mjustafan

Hard for me not to think the on ice product could improve, at least a bit, with those two guys in the lineup over Carter and Kap haha.

The Flyers didn't tank that year, they finished 12th from the bottom. They just sucked.

Please try again.
- jmatchett383

Yeah they won the draft lotto, didnt they?

Would you ask Rust to waive his no trade clause to acquire a 3c?
- Grinder47

Aside from the fact that Rust has a full NMC, why would they weaken their top-6 to improve their bottom-6?

Yeah they won the draft lotto, didnt they?
- MattStrat

No, New Jersey did, moved from 4th to 1st. The Flyers got the second pick.

Just saying, they didn't tank by any means; they just sucked.

Yeah I hear ya and pretty much agree to all of that.

When you compare all the different combos the Pens have had on back end so far this season at 5 on 5 having played at least 20 mins together (20 different combos in total), and looking at best xGF%, HDSC% and CF%, there's one name that's involved in either the top 2 or 3 at each of these categories...Ty Smith.

#freeTy

EDI: Also....for xGF at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of two of the top 3 pairs (with either Smith or Petts)....for HDSC% at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of the 3rd best pair at this (with Smith)...for CF% at 5 on 5 Dumo is part of the 1st and 2nd best pair (with Smith or Petts).
- MattStrat

Smith definitely deserves a spot. Really I like Smith, POJ, and Pettersson but at this point I wouldn't consider any a top pair guy. Would be curious to try POJ.

There probably aren't enough stats you can quote to make me believe Dumoulin isn't cooked lol.

Aside from the fact that Rust has a full NMC, why would they weaken their top-6 to improve their bottom-6?
- jmatchett383

Obviously we just put Archibald in his rightful spot in the top six.

Smith definitely deserves a spot. Really I like Smith, POJ, and Pettersson but at this point I wouldn't consider any a top pair guy. Would be curious to try POJ.

There probably aren't enough stats you can quote to make me believe Dumoulin isn't cooked lol.
- Tojo.

Not having Ty Smith up and playing every night is poor asset management.

Obviously we just put Archibald in his rightful spot in the top six.
- Tojo.

Ah, true, that gives him more time per game to "run around and hit everything."

No, New Jersey did, moved from 4th to 1st. The Flyers got the second pick.

Just saying, they didn't tank by any means; they just sucked.
- jmatchett383

I dont ever recall thinking or hearing that the Flyers tanked in my life until I read that today haha

Smith definitely deserves a spot. Really I like Smith, POJ, and Pettersson but at this point I wouldn't consider any a top pair guy. Would be curious to try POJ.

There probably aren't enough stats you can quote to make me believe Dumoulin isn't cooked lol.
- Tojo.

hahahah I know man, I know. I'm not trying to convince myself either, just find that stuff at least a tiny bit interesting. Pretty small samples, especially with Petts at 23 mins of 5 on 5.

Obviously we just put Archibald in his rightful spot in the top six.
- Tojo.

Im for trying Archi for a game or two with Geno, putting Rust on the 3rd line and Kap/Heiny on the 4th...or something along the lines of that stuff. Spread it around a bit.

hahahah I know man, I know. I'm not trying to convince myself either, just find that stuff at least a tiny bit interesting. Pretty small samples, especially with Petts at 23 mins of 5 on 5.
- MattStrat

Lol right. Smith carried him to some pretty good numbers.

In actuality though, Dumoulin is -10 in 5v5 goals with only Letang being close. And it sure feels like it's often his mistakes or poor gap control leading to goals.

Lol right. Smith carried him to some pretty good numbers.

In actuality though, Dumoulin is -10 in 5v5 goals with only Letang being close. And it sure feels like it's often his mistakes or poor gap control leading to goals.
- Tojo.

hahaha oh yeah, Dumo gaffes hurt the most.

With the kind of elevated stats you see when Smith is paired with some guys I would love to just check out a Smith-Tanger pairing for a few games.

Agree that's the best area to target. Don't think it does much if that guy is playing with some combination of Kapanen, Heinen, Carter, and McGinn. Need to add a second player.

Unfortunately Carter will be on that line if he's here and DOC will not so long as Sully is coaching.
- Tojo.

That's definitely the problem. I think Carter is even more cooked than Dumo. I don't have any stats to back it up, but I thought Kap was playing a little better before he got hurt. Wasn't floating around as much.

hahaha oh yeah, Dumo gaffes hurt the most.

With the kind of elevated stats you see when Smith is paired with some guys I would love to just check out a Smith-Tanger pairing for a few games.
- MattStrat

It would be risky since they are pretty similar. Can work behind a strong line, could get exposed behind a weak one would be my guess. Wouldn't hurt to try.

I guess I'd try this:
POJ-Letang
Pettersson-Petry
Dumoulin -Smith

Maybe flipping POJ and Pettersson has better results with more time though. But if I were trying to go deep I'd add someone.

That's definitely the problem. I think Carter is even more cooked than Dumo. I don't have any stats to back it up, but I thought Kap was playing a little better before he got hurt. Wasn't floating around as much.
- madmike71

Agree on Carter. Dumo can probably still be a bottom pair PK guy that adds experience.

Much as I dislike him, I guess I have to admit Kapanen is capable enough offensively to maybe get his act together with a better center.

Aside from the fact that Rust has a full NMC, why would they weaken their top-6 to improve their bottom-6?
- jmatchett383

Well you’re not going to trade Kap and Dumo to anyone for a good 3c. Rust hasnt been great but he has trade value if he would accept a trade.

The Flyers didn't tank that year, they finished 12th from the bottom. They just sucked.

Please try again.
- jmatchett383

I didnt mean the Flyers tanked, I meant if the Penguins tanked for Bedard and then selected the wrong guy. Either way, a swing and a miss for me.