Hey Cliff Fletcher, breath ....all the teams not named NYI are clearly idiots.

Noted ...all in for Horvat is what you wanted.
- The Law

Kerfoot, a prospect and a 1st would have hardly been all in. Simply would have been a great deal at the right time with both short and mid term benefits.

Leafs need depth, playoff performers, defensive players. Horvat is the difference maker the Leafs need and he was the best available this year.

Who cares. IMO, it’s a dumb move by Lou.
- Canada Cup

We’ve got two pretty good Cs. We need wingers. I was hoping for someone from Guelph
- Canada Cup

Didn't play for the Soo and isn't 5'8". Can't play for Dubas.

Strength up the middle wins playoff games. A center can play wing no problem if needed. You're better off with the center.

Kerfoot, a prospect and a 1st would have hardly been all in. Simply would have been a great deal at the right time with both short and mid term benefits.

Leafs need depth, playoff performers, defensive players. Horvat is the difference maker the Leafs need and he was the best available this year.
- Rare_Jewel

You're the only guy (as far as I've seen) willing to put a 1st, Knies and Kerfoot on the table.

And that's ok. There's definitely some logic to going for it. But most others (me included) want nothing to do with that unless it came with an extension. Bo said ...no extension talks before the trade so may not have been willing to talk until he has full leverage.

You're the only guy (as far as I've seen) willing to put a 1st, Knies and Kerfoot on the table.

And that's ok. There's definitely some logic to going for it. But most others (me included) want nothing to do with that unless it came with an extension. Bo said ...no extension talks before the trade so may not have been willing to talk until he has full leverage.
- The Law

He's from London Ontario, maybe he's got some blue and white pajamas that could get that extension done.

I agree, an extension is ideal but if he's playing on a contender and playing close to home, it's not that far fetched to get an extension talk before the trade gets done. Maybe playing for a poop team like Vancouver he wants 7+ a year. Maybe on a contender like the Leafs, he changes his price tag.

Knies could be a good player one day but there's little to no chance he scores 40 or 50 goals this year or over the next 3 years, including the playoff pedigree and experience. It's a risk but a calculated one that would have been worth taking.

He's from London Ontario, maybe he's got some blue and white pajamas that could get that extension done.

I agree, an extension is ideal but if he's playing on a contender and playing close to home, it's not that far fetched to get an extension talk before the trade gets done. Maybe playing for a poop team like Vancouver he wants 7+ a year. Maybe on a contender like the Leafs, he changes his price tag.

Knies could be a good player one day but there's little to no chance he scores 40 or 50 goals this year or over the next 3 years, including the playoff pedigree and experience. It's a risk but a calculated one that would have been worth taking.
- Rare_Jewel

Friedman reported long ago that he wanted 8 x 8+ to stay in Vancouver ..and that's where he allegedly wanted to be ..so that was his discounted price.

Kadri got 7M per ...at age 32 and counting. Horvat's just 27. If he wants to come play in T.O. for under 7M then he can walk in this summer and get 'er done.

Friedman reported long ago that he wanted 8 x 8+ to stay in Vancouver ..and that's where he allegedly wanted to be ..so that was his discounted price.

Kadri got 7M per ...at age 32 and counting. Horvat's just 27. If he wants to come play in T.O. for under 7M then he can walk in this summer and get 'er done.
- The Law

I think he says he wanted to be in Vancouver but it doesn't take much to see that the Canucks are a tire fire. I think it was lip service. 8 x 8 is his price to play on a crap team in a meh city.

Who cares. IMO, it’s a dumb move by Lou.
- Canada Cup

Disagree

Why would we trade for another centre?

Siri, what is everyone on this site?
- Canada Cup

Exactly

Why would we trade for another centre?
- Atomic Wedgie

Stamkos.

Point.

Cirelli.

Bergeron.

Coyle.

Zacha.

Krejci.

Why would we trade for another centre?
- Atomic Wedgie

Just so we won’t get a small winger

The Beaverton on PP vs Fidel’s boy

“Everything is terrible so let’s make it worse” vs “Everything is perfect so let’s fix nothing.”
- Canada Cup

Lol pretty much

I'm hoping this trade has set the market as the price for Horvat was underwhelming. He would have been a great fit here. Best 3rd C in the league and the ability to play 2C and bump Tavares to the wing when you need an extra boost.

If the market is set, Dubas should be able to land a couple of good players.

It's conceivable that Meier could fetch a similar package. Yes, he's a winger rather than a Center, but he's an RFA rather than UFA.

Would a couple of top 9 forwards be a better solution or 1 big swing for a 2LW?

Why would we trade for another centre?
- Atomic Wedgie

So it won’t matter if Matthews is injured, silly

I'm sure another shutdown C on pace for 50 goals from London ONT is gonna go for a song and dance the day of the deadline.
- Rare_Jewel

He’s not from London.

Rodney, On

I think the islanders didn't hands down win this trade long term. They did as of today, get the best player in the deal with options still available to them.

1. Sign him long term (for whatever reason)
2. Trade him at this deadline if they are out of the race
3. Trade him at the draft (for a pittance of their payment)

Vancouver got okay stuff. Beau is just a middle forward. Raty is a prospect with potential and a center. Could be a solid grab or a bust. First round pick hopefully jumps to next season for the canucks so it's unprotected and I don't know how the isles stay out of the bottom 10 next season without massive changes.

Stamkos.

Point.

Cirelli.

Bergeron.

Coyle.

Zacha.

Krejci.
- Rare_Jewel

Look, Horvat is an excellent player. I think we maybe could have used him. I think we need a LW who can play C in a pinch - better than Kerfoot does.

On the Vancouver Canucks, Horvat was averaging 14:02 TOI @ 5v5 / game, which was tops on his team, and had 30 points in 5v5 situations - which is excellent (18th in the league).

He also averaged 4 minutes of PP time / game, where he'd popped in 18 more points.

Lastly, he played about 2 minutes on the PK / game (leading his team, again), where has 3 goals and an assist. As an actual penalty killer he's moderately effective, but compared to his teammates does tend to allow more high quality chances against, although this would appear to be because he does face the opposition's top, and typically rested, power play units.

Now what role does this guy - putting up 20:48 / game (that's more than Matthews) currently fit on the Leafs? Play him at his natural C instead of Kerfoot - who likely would have gone in that trade and diminish his minutes to 14 / game? That's a lot of money for a guy to not play a significant role and get little power play time. His wingers certainly wouldn't produce for him the same way that Miller does. You take a guy with as role prominent as Horvat's and give him Kerfoot's role? He will not only not produce, he'd likely go into a funk. Players are irritating that way.

Perhaps play him at LW and move Jarnkrok into Kerfoot's spot? I mean he doesn't play LW. Well, last he did for a bit with Petterson as his Centre and Garland as the other winger. They were -7 in 70 minutes over 16 games. This is what we call ungood. Maybe we play him at C and move JT to LW - I mean he did play on the left side 9 years ago with Bailey and the Centre and Okposo as the RW. They were -1 in 280 minutes, so not too bad - although with JT as the Centre they were +6 in 250 minutes, so who knows? The point is that a shift to LW isn't easy for a Centre and would be tough to do with 30 games remaining in the season.

Regardless, he would lose significant 5v5 time and PP time, and his production will falter - he'd still score, but Leaf fans would get particularly grumpy about why we gave up Matthew Knies and a 1st for a guy who was producing a little better than Kerfoot.

Look, Horvat is an excellent player. I think we maybe could have used him. I think we need a LW who can play C in a pinch - better than Kerfoot does.

On the Vancouver Canucks, Horvat was averaging 14:02 TOI @ 5v5 / game, which was tops on his team, and had 30 points in 5v5 situations - which is excellent (18th in the league).

He also averaged 4 minutes of PP time / game, where he'd popped in 18 more points.

Lastly, he played about 2 minutes on the PK / game (leading his team, again), where has 3 goals and an assist. As an actual penalty killer he's moderately effective, but compared to his teammates does tend to allow more high quality chances against, although this would appear to be because he does face the opposition's top, and typically rested, power play units.

Now what role does this guy - putting up 20:48 / game (that's more than Matthews) currently fit on the Leafs? Play him at his natural C instead of Kerfoot - who likely would have gone in that trade and diminish his minutes to 14 / game? That's a lot of money for a guy to not play a significant role and get little power play time. His wingers certainly wouldn't produce for him the same way that Miller does. You take a guy with as role prominent as Horvat's and give him Kerfoot's role? He will not only not produce, he'd likely go into a funk. Players are irritating that way.

Perhaps play him at LW and move Jarnkrok into Kerfoot's spot? I mean he doesn't play LW. Well, last he did for a bit with Petterson as his Centre and Garland as the other winger. They were -7 in 70 minutes over 16 games. This is what we call ungood. Maybe we play him at C and move JT to LW - I mean he did play on the left side 9 years ago with Bailey and the Centre and Okposo as the RW. They were -1 in 280 minutes, so not too bad - although with JT as the Centre they were +6 in 250 minutes, so who knows? The point is that a shift to LW isn't easy for a Centre and would be tough to do with 30 games remaining in the season.

Regardless, he would lose significant 5v5 time and PP time, and his production will falter - he'd still score, but Leaf fans would get particularly grumpy about why we gave up Matthew Knies and a 1st for a guy who was producing a little better than Kerfoot.
- Monkeypunk

Well my view on if the leafs should have gone after him is that they should not have. I like a c like RoR who can shift to wing or allow JT to do it. I didn't think Horvat would be that guy. Even with the cost of the trade.

I don't think RoR is on the radar anymore for the leafs if he's looking to resign before the deadline.

I think it'll be someone nobody is talking about as that's a Dubas thing to do.

Look, Horvat is an excellent player. I think we maybe could have used him. I think we need a LW who can play C in a pinch - better than Kerfoot does. .
- Monkeypunk

Amen. But better off having a C who can play wing than the other way around. Wingers who try to play C usually suck at. Like Kerfoot. Because he sucks. Kerfoot sucks.

On the Vancouver Canucks, Horvat was averaging 14:02 TOI @ 5v5 / game, which was tops on his team, and had 30 points in 5v5 situations - which is excellent (18th in the league).

He also averaged 4 minutes of PP time / game, where he'd popped in 18 more points.

Leafs PP sucks sometimes (14% in the playoffs last year), would be nice to have 2 effective units. Harder to shut down, especially in the playoffs.

Lastly, he played about 2 minutes on the PK / game (leading his team, again), where has 3 goals and an assist. As an actual penalty killer he's moderately effective, but compared to his teammates does tend to allow more high quality chances against, although this would appear to be because he does face the opposition's top, and typically rested, power play units.

Leafs need a shutdown, FO, PK center. Horvat does all of that far better than anybody the Leafs currently have. Again, playoff performer to the core. Exactly what they need when it matters most. Leafs PK was 78% last year in the playoffs. 79% right as of right now. That's not good enough if you want to get past Tampa Bay and Boston.

Also, Matthews gets hurt often. Tavares went down against Montreal. It's a great insurance policy. Injuries happen, depth makes a difference.

Now what role does this guy - putting up 20:48 / game (that's more than Matthews) currently fit on the Leafs? Play him at his natural C instead of Kerfoot - who likely would have gone in that trade and diminish his minutes to 14 / game? That's a lot of money for a guy to not play a significant role and get little power play time. His wingers certainly wouldn't produce for him the same way that Miller does. You take a guy with as role prominent as Horvat's and give him Kerfoot's role? He will not only not produce, he'd likely go into a funk. Players are irritating that way.

Perhaps play him at LW and move Jarnkrok into Kerfoot's spot? I mean he doesn't play LW. Well, last he did for a bit with Petterson as his Centre and Garland as the other winger. They were -7 in 70 minutes over 16 games. This is what we call ungood. Maybe we play him at C and move JT to LW - I mean he did play on the left side 9 years ago with Bailey and the Centre and Okposo as the RW. They were -1 in 280 minutes, so not too bad - although with JT as the Centre they were +6 in 250 minutes, so who knows? The point is that a shift to LW isn't easy for a Centre and would be tough to do with 30 games remaining in the season.

Put him at LW or C with Tavares or with Matthews (Hyman 2.0 but with actual skill). Either way, he's on pace for 50 goals. He's not going to drop off the face of the earth if he gets 2 minutes less a night especially if he gets good minutes with great players. It's a good problem to have to have 3 C who can play 20 min each. Good luck stopping that in the playoffs. It's a match-up nightmare.

Regardless, he would lose significant 5v5 time and PP time, and his production will falter - he'd still score, but Leaf fans would get particularly grumpy about why we gave up Matthew Knies and a 1st for a guy who was producing a little better than Kerfoot.

I don't think he would have cost Knies. Robertson could have been dangled, maybe a prospect on D, maybe a roster player like Engvall. There's lots of options available. But Knies isn't a prospect that can't be replaced by another 2nd round pick in the future anyway. He's years away from being what Horvat is right now. But with some creativity, there's no reason the Leafs couldn't have done with Horvat what Boston did with Taylor Hall. Short term gain but also long term acquisition during their 2-5 year window of prime opportunity.

Well my view on if the leafs should have gone after him is that they should not have. I like a c like RoR who can shift to wing or allow JT to do it. I didn't think Horvat would be that guy. Even with the cost of the trade.

I don't think RoR is on the radar anymore for the leafs if he's looking to resign before the deadline.

I think it'll be someone nobody is talking about as that's a Dubas thing to do.
- Aaron_85

RoR looks like his best years are behind him. Same with Toews. They're both washed. And they're both pure rentals. RoR is having a horrible year and just doesn't bring what Horvat can bring at 27 and putting up amazing numbers in every area of the ice.

If the Leafs are going to make a deal for the playoffs, Horvat was the best possible forward option. He's playing great, he fits all their needs and there is the chance he could stay here beyond this season.

If the Leafs go after somebody else, it'll have to be to solidify the blueline with so many injuries and inexperience.

Didn't see a real fit as others have already covered there. I can see it backfiring huge on senile old Uncle Lou. That is a coming tire fire/rebuild given the ages of the bulk of the team there. Horvat will want to win, not sign on for money to wind up losing a lot. He just left that.

For me Leafs need the winger and maybe a solid deterrent physical player who can chip in to keep Simmonds out of the damn lineup!

For me a 6'4 204lb winger wouldn't be bad and there is one down the trans canada highway that couldn't be anything but an improvement on Simmonds.

RoR looks like his best years are behind him. Same with Toews. They're both washed. And they're both pure rentals. RoR is having a horrible year and just doesn't bring what Horvat can bring at 27 and putting up amazing numbers in every area of the ice.

If the Leafs are going to make a deal for the playoffs, Horvat was the best possible forward option. He's playing great, he fits all their needs and there is the chance he could stay here beyond this season.

If the Leafs go after somebody else, it'll have to be to solidify the blueline with so many injuries and inexperience.
- Rare_Jewel

Horvat isn't what you think he is. He's having a career year and yes he's a great player but he hasn't hit 60 points in the past 5 years. Should hit it this year well enough. He would also be a pure rental for the leafs.

As I said, Dubas can get someone else. He's the best possible forward in YOUR eyes that YOU know of. Dubas knows of others who might be available.

What inexperience? Reilly, Gio, Brodie, Benn all have longevity in the league with the latter three having some deeper playoff experience. The b line isn't full of kids but to each their own.

Didn't see a real fit as others have already covered there. I can see it backfiring huge on senile old Uncle Lou. That is a coming tire fire/rebuild given the ages of the bulk of the team there. Horvat will want to win, not sign on for money to wind up losing a lot. He just left that.

For me Leafs need the winger and maybe a solid deterrent physical player who can chip in to keep Simmonds out of the damn lineup!

For me a 6'4 204lb winger wouldn't be bad and there is one down the trans canada highway that couldn't be anything but an improvement on Simmonds.
- Roadrunner75

Funny thing is all the pundits think it's a good move by Lou because Horvat brings what the islanders need to push for a playoff spot and that's clearly Lou's goal. He won't be there for a rebuild I don't think.

Funny thing is all the pundits think it's a good move by Lou because Horvat brings what the islanders need to push for a playoff spot and that's clearly Lou's goal. He won't be there for a rebuild I don't think.
- Aaron_85

Yrah but shot yhe wad and they still would have to add. Lot of teams battling and ahead if them too. I dont think this gets that done there. Its just not enough with that roster. Just a very odd move and play to me.