I’m sure that conversation will happen.
- paulr

lets keep ripping down the past so we dont learn from it. like someone states earlier great player crappy human. the same can be said for so many people from the past. lets cancel them so the future generations don't learn and thus these people keep coming back over and over.

lets keep ripping down the past so we dont learn from it. like someone states earlier great player crappy human. the same can be said for so many people from the past. lets cancel them so the future generations don't learn and thus these people keep coming back over and over.
- SaskHawkFan

I’m not and don’t think tearing down statues, in most cases, is correct. However we don’t learn from statues, we learn from education and books.

Also not accurate. If you look at the election history there has always been a significant amount of animosity between candidates and voter bases. This isn't a uniquely American phenomenon either.

So much so that Andrew Jackson's wife's death (heart attack) was attributed to the vicious election. The Jefferson Adams election was extremely contentious. Certainly he Goldwater Johnson campaign was not cordial and the first Cleveland election got extremely personal, for example.

This idea that the country is somehow more divided now than it was 10, 25, 50 or 200 years ago isn't really true when you actually look at the history. Same with either party blaming the other for whatever happens to be the most recent hot button.

Our generation certainly isn't special in that regard.
- fattybeef

I heard it was the vaccine!

I’m not and don’t think tearing down statues, in most cases, is correct. However we don’t learn from statues, we learn from education and books.
- paulr

Books?!?! What are them?

Books, he says......

Books?!?! What are them?

Books, he says......
- mohel

Go to a liberry

I’d hope KD has already had discussions. Not sure of the process but wouldn’t KD have a discussion with another team(s) then come back to Toews or Kane and see if they’d be will to waive to go there!
- paulr

You'd hope so but this supposed "deadline" to sit and talk about what they (19/88) want to do keeps getting a little further out. Given both, and I get some teams like to accrue the extra cap space up until the deadline, but one would think you'd like to maximize your return on what you pay IF you were to acquire either.... especially Kane who could help distance a team like the Rangers and lock them comfortably into a slot.

I think the flip side of this to me if I were a GM....if neither want to move, I'd be hell bent giving out a NMC/NTC in the last year of a max deal to player expiring in their mid 30s. Lot of leverage here is out of the Hawks control which is tough given their desperate need to replenish picks and prospects.

I’m not and don’t think tearing down statues, in most cases, is correct. However we don’t learn from statues, we learn from education and books.
- paulr

wasn't directed at you sorry. just a general statement about how this cancel culture poop has gone to damn far.

Less politics, more hockey. Hull was a great and a huge Richard and great to fans. He’s dead. The end.


Horvat to the Islanders for a haul is more interesting. Setting a high precedent for rentals. A mid round first, high end prospect in Raty, and solid middle six guy in Beauvillier is a great return. Kane doesn’t net the same return because of age and health concerns, but he’s still a force. I’d be happy with a first and Kravtsov from the Rangers. Or a first and Jack Drury from Carolina.

Toews would be such a good fit for any team that needs a middle six center who can win draws. NYR, CAR, FLA, COL.
- ObeseOprah

Hawks not getting dury canes to high on him but a conditional 2nd which turns into a 1st if certain things are met and Suzuki from Carolina for towes 50% retained. Same parameters for other teams looking to trade for him.

Hawks not getting dury canes to high on him but a conditional 2nd which turns into a 1st if certain things are met and Suzuki from Carolina for towes 50% retained. Same parameters for other teams looking to trade for him.
- Scott1977

Horvat off the market just made Toews more valuable

Don't get the Isle move, i wonder if Lou did it to have an exclusive shot to sign him long term

Horvat off the market just made Toews more valuable

Don't get the Isle move, i wonder if Lou did it to have an exclusive shot to sign him long term
- BetweenTheDots

He’ll get even more valuable in the unfortunate event a team gets an injury. I’m curious if Toews and Kane are open to moving?

You know....I can handle the the media trying to figure out how to talk about Hull's legacy between what a dominant on ice player he was vs off ice. Where it grows tiresome is when a weasal like Lazerus has to rope in the Beach controversy 2 different times in the same article. How are those 2 remotely tied in to one another?
- SteveRain

I entirely agree.

He's a cheap shot artist.

I was so surprised when someone here reported the Hawks didn't offer new deals to Kane and Toews already....
you would think they will get more than we expect in house after their lack of memory on the Kyle Beach incident.

Kane's incidents where covered up or serious handled to the point the truth is mired by the Hawk operation chief nipping those things in the bud.

So, I don't expect Kane or Toews to get any recollections on the Beach incident because the are loyal soldiers now and after and ne destinations.

Horvat off the market just made Toews more valuable

Don't get the Isle move, i wonder if Lou did it to have an exclusive shot to sign him long term
- BetweenTheDots

Darth suggested earlier that Horvat should be signing there soon. I will defer to that speculation. In the event that Lou can't sign him, and the team doesn't gain ground in the playoff race, Lou could probably still flip Horvat to another team, and essentially scratch the trade he just made, give or take.

Our country is so far divided it's beyond repair. It's going to take years to do so and there are people who rightfully will never trust the governmment again.
- SteveRain

As long as people know whose agenda is tax breaks for rich, you know are educated enough on the present.
I think right now is a pretty clear view of what has happened, and what can happen, and what is really in YOUR interest.
There has always been a section of people more willing to give lip service and say, "Don't trust them"
Until compromise happens, it will take years.

And you have to be willing to read, access, and not just :"sound bite."

Maybe get off the phone screen, the computer screen, and the TV screen and get out there if you can and do service w/o anger for others. It's a struggle to allow yourself time to help, and to see past the "injustices everyone thinks they have been inflicted by our government.

This idea that the country is somehow more divided now than it was 10, 25, 50 or 200 years ago isn't really true when you actually look at the history. Same with either party blaming the other for whatever happens to be the most recent hot button.
Our generation certainly isn't special in that regard.
- fattybeef

Yeah, there are just new ways the status quo is riled by the new norms of justice, the new ideas of personal respect of sexualities, and misunderstanding of privilege.

Bobby's heavy drinking and fits of rage, coupled with his overwhelming need to be loved/admired, would suggest he had some pretty significant inner demons. And based on the era in which he was in his prime, it would have been very unlikely that he would have sought out, or that anyone would have suggested, psychological counseling.
- scottak

He wasn't the only player with girlfriends in many NHL cities, a drinking problem, and the want to loved, as a GREAT hockey boy, no matter what he was a 1950-60's macho man. Also AA was around, but whom you think was going to and tell him from his employer to go seek help? Not back then, when he was the guy you bought a ticket to see.

I am not gonna soil other players, but there were many with Goomahs.

Male double standard it existed then and though there is change happening, we were brought up not so much as this was a wrong as it just "was."

Horvat off the market just made Toews more valuable

Don't get the Isle move, i wonder if Lou did it to have an exclusive shot to sign him long term
- BetweenTheDots

Why - because his team is 3 points behind Washington, 2 points behind Pittsburgh, 1 point behind Buffalo and 1 ahead of Florida. His team can't score goals and their PP sucks. But he has an outstanding goalie.

So he moves a 9 goal scorer, a lottery ticket on a minor leaguer and the draft pick and gets the best player in the trade. And he hopes that's enough to get him into the playoffs.

lets keep ripping down the past so we dont learn from it. like someone states earlier great player crappy human. the same can be said for so many people from the past. lets cancel them so the future generations don't learn and thus these people keep coming back over and over.
- SaskHawkFan

As Desantis and his state houses have just revised dress codes for women in the state houses here, and the fear that teaching the ignored truths of our history seems really dumb.

Why did I always want to be in the cavalry with my Fanner fifty? I think b/c of that General Custer incident.
I also wanted to be on the side of the Confederacy b/c the North forced them to fight back.

And Columbus was a great man that help us get her and be.

We weren't as much un-woke but told versions that bypassed important aspects.

When the phoney Gulf of Tokken incident happened against "us", I was ready to enlist...it was a phony lie to get my parents to approve of more troops over there.

Edgar R. Muroe said that as TV took hold, we could have had it provide an important tool, even if it was to present any current administrations side of current events.

Imagine if we had a government run educational state at the onset of TV, and it was a practical way to explain things and we were raised better informed?

But we got Garfield Goose, the Munsters, Batman TV show, and Bonzanna (and the old west) preoccupying us, in the same way your phone does you now.

Horvat off the market just made Toews more valuable

Don't get the Isle move, i wonder if Lou did it to have an exclusive shot to sign him long term
- BetweenTheDots

Ror is more valuable I know he is injured but has mote value and is younger.

Ror is more valuable I know he is injured but has mote value and is younger.
- Scott1977

At first I thought you meant O'Reilly was younger than Horvat.
O'Reilly iS younger than Toews but not the face-off man that Toews brings.
O'Reilly has always been a good wall guy.


The hawks have the luxury of Cap space if they trade Toews whereas Blues are a tighter Cap space that probably doesn't allow a full half Cap swallow.

Last year teams got centres like Andrew Copp, Vincent Trocheck, Frank Vatrano etc., who weren't big ticket items.

Why - because his team is 3 points behind Washington, 2 points behind Pittsburgh, 1 point behind Buffalo and 1 ahead of Florida. His team can't score goals and their PP sucks. But he has an outstanding goalie.

So he moves a 9 goal scorer, a lottery ticket on a minor leaguer and the draft pick and gets the best player in the trade. And he hopes that's enough to get him into the playoffs.
- RickJ

You know Rick i thought they were further out of a playoff spot when i looked at it yesterday thanks, and nevermind

At first I thought you meant O'Reilly was younger than Horvat.
O'Reilly iS younger than Toews but not the face-off man that Toews brings.
O'Reilly has always been a good wall guy.


The hawks have the luxury of Cap space if they trade Toews whereas Blues are a tighter Cap space that probably doesn't allow a full half Cap swallow.

Last year teams got centres like Andrew Copp, Vincent Trocheck, Frank Vatrano etc., who weren't big ticket items.
- wiz1901

I m not lessing the value of Toews but imo I think ROR might be more attractive to teams. Plus the uncertainty of towes does want to stay or not

Ror is more valuable I know he is injured but has mote value and is younger.
- Scott1977

You think so? He's cheaper for sure but Toews skates faster and is performing better on the ice statistically almost in every catagory compared to ROR. And you can't tell me Toews has better linemates.

Man what GM is going to make an ass out of himself in the next month? Hopefully said GM overpays for any Hawks asset.

Good article on faceoff by Frank S breaking down Kane trade targets and possible returns.

I m not lessing the value of Toews but imo I think ROR might be more attractive to teams. Plus the uncertainty of towes does want to stay or not
- Scott1977

Why do u think teams find ROR to be a more attractive acquisition? He's out for 5-6 weeks with a broken foot and he hasn't played very well this season. And he isn't exactly a gazelle on skates out there. So there is uncertainty with him too.

But both players really boost a contender because they know how to win.

O'Reilly has no trade protection so he can be dealt anywhere. Toews can choose and he surely would only want to go somewhere he can win. I'd love to see him go to Tampa or Boston so he can put the screws to the Maple Leafs. Or Colorado because I'd like to see him win another Cup and ride off into retirement a winner.

As long as people know whose agenda is tax breaks for rich, you know are educated enough on the present.
I think right now is a pretty clear view of what has happened, and what can happen, and what is really in YOUR interest.
There has always been a section of people more willing to give lip service and say, "Don't trust them"
Until compromise happens, it will take years.

And you have to be willing to read, access, and not just :"sound bite."

Maybe get off the phone screen, the computer screen, and the TV screen and get out there if you can and do service w/o anger for others. It's a struggle to allow yourself time to help, and to see past the "injustices everyone thinks they have been inflicted by our government.
- wiz1901

Whose ever agenda it is to give tax breaks to the rich, they are not doing a very good job.