Abuse is abuse. And it fits the pattern of the Blackhawks and how they handle abusers which was to keep one around to not interfere with a Stanley Cup run and have another one represent the brand in a very visible way.

How the organization handles this is kind of important to see if they've actually changed the way they are going to operate as it relates to abuse and abusers.
- fattybeef

I think is a very moveable target and why I have a major beef with ass clown Lazerus.

1. You are talking about 2 different time frames. Right or wrong, the 1960s vs the 2000s and 2010s are drastically different eras. Did they have morale clauses in Hull's contract back then? I bet they didn't.

I am not advocating that anyone should ever LAY HANDS on ANY woman at ANY time regardless of the situation. However, this was a domestic issue. You can recognize Bobby Hull the player and honor him vs Bobby Hull the human being. From all the stories I hear, again too young to experience them, does him signing for kids at all costs, all hours make up for it? Did he try to become a better person? Did he apologize to said victim(s) ? Did he ever get to "move on" from this and make ammends? I have no idea.

2. Beach...beaten to death. I get all of what you are saying.

3. To PE's post which is fantastic...what about Bob Probert? Didn't Hawks send him and pay for his counseling and offer him a great support structure here? So It's fair to ONLY point out the negatives this organization has done with Beach or Hull and ignore guys like Kane, Probert, Crawford--allegedly....

That's my beef. The one sided soap box stance a guy like Lazerus takes because HE has an agenda to crucify the Hawks whenever he can. Was there any articles when Kobe Bryant died of him raping the young girl in Colorado back in the early 2000s and if not, why so? Why does HE get a pass and others don't? The hypocrisy in the media is so rich and tainted these clowns now have zero compass on reporting....it's just opinion and any of us here could do their job in a second.

I truly hope the Hawks say enough, and just revoke the guys' press badge. You had your time, you rightfully questioned us, reported it, dug in, crossed the line a few times, and wont let it go. You can sit in the press box but your extra access to players and coaches is no better than a guy who writes a blog.......

Yes and what you say above is exactly why my wife and I both stopped watching ANY news. Depending upon how you view the world you can tune in and find a station that will spin anything favorably in your way OR bash the opposition.

The lost art of just reporting the news and trusting the viewer to be educated enough to form his/her own opinion is long gone. I need a true news man......Cue the Ron Burgandy GIF.....
- SteveRain

I actually do the opposite, I watch both sides to prevent me from re-enforcing what I already believe and to try to understand the other point of view. I guess in typical Canadian fashion I end up sitting on the fence for most issues seeing both points of view.

I think is a very moveable target and why I have a major beef with ass clown Lazerus.

1. You are talking about 2 different time frames. Right or wrong, the 1960s vs the 2000s and 2010s are drastically different eras. Did they have morale clauses in Hull's contract back then? I bet they didn't.

I am not advocating that anyone should ever LAY HANDS on ANY woman at ANY time regardless of the situation. However, this was a domestic issue. You can recognize Bobby Hull the player and honor him vs Bobby Hull the human being. From all the stories I hear, again too young to experience them, does him signing for kids at all costs, all hours make up for it? Did he try to become a better person? Did he apologize to said victim(s) ? Did he ever get to "move on" from this and make ammends? I have no idea.

2. Beach...beaten to death. I get all of what you are saying.

3. To PE's post which is fantastic...what about Bob Probert? Didn't Hawks send him and pay for his counseling and offer him a great support structure here? So It's fair to ONLY point out the negatives this organization has done with Beach or Hull and ignore guys like Kane, Probert, Crawford--allegedly....

That's my beef. The one sided soap box stance a guy like Lazerus takes because HE has an agenda to crucify the Hawks whenever he can. Was there any articles when Kobe Bryant died of him raping the young girl in Colorado back in the early 2000s and if not, why so? Why does HE get a pass and others don't? The hypocrisy in the media is so rich and tainted these clowns now have zero compass on reporting....it's just opinion and any of us here could do their job in a second.

I truly hope the Hawks say enough, and just revoke the guys' press badge. You had your time, you rightfully questioned us, reported it, dug in, crossed the line a few times, and wont let it go. You can sit in the press box but your extra access to players and coaches is no better than a guy who writes a blog.......
- SteveRain

It's not a movable target at all. Since Bill Wirtz died until last year - Bobby Hull - who everyone knew was a wife beater and racist - was paraded around as a face of the franchise. This is unacceptable and has absolutely nothing to do with how other organizations or leagues have handled things like this in the past.

2007 - 2021 has nothing to do with the 60s. He should have never been in that position in the first place.

The Hawks - based on their history - should be beaten with a stick (or words) until they demonstrate that they have zero tolerance for employees, in any capacity, that are physically, emotionally or sexually abusive.

Continuing to look back at missed opportunities for punishment or whatever isn't the correct way to handle this as well. There needs to be progress as it relates to these types of issues and using past action or lack there of as a measuring stick is not how it should be discussed or evaluated.

I actually do the opposite, I watch both sides to prevent me from re-enforcing what I already believe and to try to understand the other point of view. I guess in typical Canadian fashion I end up sitting on the fence for most issues seeing both points of view.
- paulr

I tried that for a few weeks in May-June of 2020 when all hell was breaking loose here, and I just found the fear mongering, gas lighting, and refusal to admit/accept ANY accountability was so far gone by either side....it wasn't worth it.

It continues to this day. You can speak to anyone and within 3 minutes tops you can figure out exactly where they get their "news"

Our country is so far divided it's beyond repair. It's going to take years to do so and there are people who rightfully will never trust the governmment again.

I actually do the opposite, I watch both sides to prevent me from re-enforcing what I already believe and to try to understand the other point of view. I guess in typical Canadian fashion I end up sitting on the fence for most issues seeing both points of view.
- paulr

(frank)ing Canadians.....

It's not a movable target at all. Since Bill Wirtz died until last year - Bobby Hull - who everyone knew was a wife beater and racist - was paraded around as a face of the franchise. This is unacceptable and has absolutely nothing to do with how other organizations or leagues have handled things like this in the past.

2007 - 2021 has nothing to do with the 60s. He should have never been in that position in the first place.

The Hawks - based on their history - should be beaten with a stick (or words) until they demonstrate that they have zero tolerance for employees, in any capacity, that are physically, emotionally or sexually abusive.

Continuing to look back at missed opportunities for punishment or whatever isn't the correct way to handle this as well. There needs to be progress as it relates to these types of issues and using past action or lack there of as a measuring stick is not how it should be discussed or evaluated.
- fattybeef

yes I expect them to be better. 100% It was very hard to read that beach report, which I did, a few times.

Each their own but for me I am able to separate church/state (metaphorically speaking) in regards to Hull the player vs Hull the human being. I have heard plenty of stories from people I respect, and some who knew him, and interacted with him.

I personally don't remember, and I am likely wrong, but back in the spring of 2008 when the Hawks brought out Hull, Mikita and Tony O in the white convertible before playing the Sharks, was there an outcry back then? Nationally? Locally? I really don't remember it, and if it happened wouldn't a brand conscience narcissist like McDonough so hell bent on grabbing ALL the Chicago sports market discretionary dollars pivot quickly? So why wasn't that called out then vs now? Same guy.... same stories were known, existed but yet it was ok?

I tried that for a few weeks in May-June of 2020 when all hell was breaking loose here, and I just found the fear mongering, gas lighting, and refusal to admit/accept ANY accountability was so far gone by either side....it wasn't worth it.

It continues to this day. You can speak to anyone and within 3 minutes tops you can figure out exactly where they get their "news"

Our country is so far divided it's beyond repair. It's going to take years to do so and there are people who rightfully will never trust the governmment again.
- SteveRain

Also not accurate. If you look at the election history there has always been a significant amount of animosity between candidates and voter bases. This isn't a uniquely American phenomenon either.

So much so that Andrew Jackson's wife's death (heart attack) was attributed to the vicious election. The Jefferson Adams election was extremely contentious. Certainly he Goldwater Johnson campaign was not cordial and the first Cleveland election got extremely personal, for example.

This idea that the country is somehow more divided now than it was 10, 25, 50 or 200 years ago isn't really true when you actually look at the history. Same with either party blaming the other for whatever happens to be the most recent hot button.

Our generation certainly isn't special in that regard.

yes I expect them to be better. 100% It was very hard to read that beach report, which I did, a few times.

Each their own but for me I am able to separate church/state (metaphorically speaking) in regards to Hull the player vs Hull the human being. I have heard plenty of stories from people I respect, and some who knew him, and interacted with him.

I personally don't remember, and I am likely wrong, but back in the spring of 2008 when the Hawks brought out Hull, Mikita and Tony O in the white convertible before playing the Sharks, was there an outcry back then? Nationally? Locally? I really don't remember it, and if it happened wouldn't a brand conscience narcissist like McDonough so hell bent on grabbing ALL the Chicago sports market discretionary dollars pivot quickly? So why wasn't that called out then vs now? Same guy.... same stories were known, existed but yet it was ok?
- SteveRain

All McD cared about was connecting with the boomers who remember the shot and the speed rather than anything personal and haven't been connected with team news for a few decades.

I believe Lazerus was not at the Sun Times yet but there were certainly places questioning that decision.

I personally found it sickening every time they showed him on the Jumbotron half drunk and waving to the crowd.

Just because there wasn't a reaction then doesn't mean that the appropriate one can't be made today. Certainly, as mentioned several times already, the history of sports and abuse is not pretty but it has to change. This is an opportunity to demonstrate and start that change.

Also not accurate. If you look at the election history there has always been a significant amount of animosity between candidates and voter bases. This isn't a uniquely American phenomenon either.

So much so that Andrew Jackson's wife's death (heart attack) was attributed to the vicious election. The Jefferson Adams election was extremely contentious. Certainly he Goldwater Johnson campaign was not cordial and the first Cleveland election got extremely personal, for example.

This idea that the country is somehow more divided now than it was 10, 25, 50 or 200 years ago isn't really true when you actually look at the history. Same with either party blaming the other for whatever happens to be the most recent hot button.

Our generation certainly isn't special in that regard.
- fattybeef

Your opinion, not facts.

Sorry, you won't "win" this one. There was always a divide but a civil divide where you could talk to an opposing person and respect opinions. Everyone was mainly slightly right center but now all we do is cater to the extremists on both sides. Show me when politics on both sides catered to their crazies constantly......that's as far as I am going as this isn't a foxnews, msnbc or cnn blog.

All McD cared about was connecting with the boomers who remember the shot and the speed rather than anything personal and haven't been connected with team news for a few decades.

I believe Lazerus was not at the Sun Times yet but there were certainly places questioning that decision.

I personally found it sickening every time they showed him on the Jumbotron half drunk and waving to the crowd.

Just because there wasn't a reaction then doesn't mean that the appropriate one can't be made today. Certainly, as mentioned several times already, the history of sports and abuse is not pretty but it has to change. This is an opportunity to demonstrate and start that change.
- fattybeef

Careful using boomers.....that generation like any other deserves respect regardless of your opinion of them.

McDonough was a parasitic clown who threw anyone and everyone in front of the bus to get any advantage in his climb to fame and then Karma bit his @ss hard for the conquering champion from Elk Grove and away to whatever bunker he crawled his airtight NDA and god knows how many millions from the Wirtz family.

Will you cheer Jordan if you go to a game a guy who was a serial womanizer and treated women like $hit and allegedly smacked his wife around? Curious how far this compass goes?

So what is YOUR solution since you have it figured it out? Do you remove his statue? Do you bring down his banner? Do you etch his name off the cup? Do you pretend he didn't exist? Where does it stop and start?

He was an awesome hockey player who I loved watching as a kid.
- mohel

Bobby's heavy drinking and fits of rage, coupled with his overwhelming need to be loved/admired, would suggest he had some pretty significant inner demons. And based on the era in which he was in his prime, it would have been very unlikely that he would have sought out, or that anyone would have suggested, psychological counseling.

Great player, I had the pleasure to see him play in the late 60s and 70s, a flawed, troubled human being.

Whatever Hull’s personal failings, every NHL player since should be worshipping him. Hull signing with the WHA is just as important as Curt Flood challenging the reserve clause.
- LAHawk

Bobby's heavy drinking and fits of rage, coupled with his overwhelming need to be loved/admired, would suggest he had some pretty significant inner demons. And based on the era in which he was in his prime, it would have been very unlikely that he would have sought out, or that anyone would have suggested, psychological counseling.

Great player, I had the pleasure to see him play in the late 60s and 70s, a flawed, troubled human being.
- scottak

great summary, and great point on reluctance to sought professional help in an era where it was likely frowned upon IF it even existed.

It's not a movable target at all. Since Bill Wirtz died until last year - Bobby Hull - who everyone knew was a wife beater and racist - was paraded around as a face of the franchise. This is unacceptable and has absolutely nothing to do with how other organizations or leagues have handled things like this in the past.

2007 - 2021 has nothing to do with the 60s. He should have never been in that position in the first place.

The Hawks - based on their history - should be beaten with a stick (or words) until they demonstrate that they have zero tolerance for employees, in any capacity, that are physically, emotionally or sexually abusive.

Continuing to look back at missed opportunities for punishment or whatever isn't the correct way to handle this as well. There needs to be progress as it relates to these types of issues and using past action or lack there of as a measuring stick is not how it should be discussed or evaluated.
- fattybeef

I'm going to take a trip to the Vatican and hope to meet with members of the ecumenical council to find out how they managed to put a complete stop to all of the misdeeds of their members within the 3 orders of clergy. When I find that out, I will file a detailed report with Bettman and Wirtz and implore them to use it as the roadmap to improvement.

But I suspect I already know the answer - they did it with big fat cheques and insincere mumbojumbo about they were so sorry for the people who got hurt.

You want to hammer on one particular guy posthumously, go ahead if thats your crusade. I'd just like to know your qualifications for being the judge.

I'm going to take a trip to the Vatican and hope to meet with members of the ecumenical council to find out how they managed to put a complete stop to all of the misdeeds of their members within the 3 orders of clergy. When I find that out, I will file a detailed report with Bettman and Wirtz and implore them to use it as the roadmap to improvement.

But I suspect I already know the answer - they did it with big fat cheques and insincere mumbojumbo about they were so sorry for the people who got hurt.

You want to hammer on one particular guy posthumously, go ahead if thats your crusade. I'd just like to know your qualifications for being the judge.
- RickJ

The hypocrisy is rich in the world today....but some have all the answers.

I respect his/her hockey opinion. Always has been a great poster about the game, players, etc...made me a better fan/student of the game.

great summary, and great point on reluctance to sought professional help in an era where it was likely frowned upon IF it even existed.
- SteveRain

Thank you!

Promoting someone who beat the hell out of his wife and has been a fairly well documented racist (confirmed by his daughter) as a face of the franchise is absolutely a reflection on the Organization.
- fattybeef

Well it's dysfunctional. The thing is many many many fans just want to remember the good things, the things that brought them joy when they would see Hull play hockey.

I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating, honoring Hull's playing career. I think it would also help if they also began supporting women shelters, and domestic violence, if they don't already.

The Blackhawks are married to Hull, and what's that line they use, oh yeah for better or worse....

I wonder if some think that they should tear down the Hull statue in front of the UC?

Less politics, more hockey. Hull was a great and a huge Richard and great to fans. He’s dead. The end.


Horvat to the Islanders for a haul is more interesting. Setting a high precedent for rentals. A mid round first, high end prospect in Raty, and solid middle six guy in Beauvillier is a great return. Kane doesn’t net the same return because of age and health concerns, but he’s still a force. I’d be happy with a first and Kravtsov from the Rangers. Or a first and Jack Drury from Carolina.

Toews would be such a good fit for any team that needs a middle six center who can win draws. NYR, CAR, FLA, COL.

Your opinion, not facts.

Sorry, you won't "win" this one. There was always a divide but a civil divide where you could talk to an opposing person and respect opinions. Everyone was mainly slightly right center but now all we do is cater to the extremists on both sides. Show me when politics on both sides catered to their crazies constantly......that's as far as I am going as this isn't a foxnews, msnbc or cnn blog.
- SteveRain

The days of Ted Kennedy and Orin Hatch getting together and making a deal are long gone. Specifically, they ended for sure with the Republicans and Obama.

James Baker and Barak went on a lecture tour together and talked about this.

(frank)ing Canadians.....
- mohel

Sorry.

(frank)ing Canadians.....
- mohel

I know eh!

Less politics, more hockey. Hull was a great and a huge Richard and great to fans. He’s dead. The end.


Horvat to the Islanders for a haul is more interesting. Setting a high precedent for rentals. A mid round first, high end prospect in Raty, and solid middle six guy in Beauvillier is a great return. Kane doesn’t net the same return because of age and health concerns, but he’s still a force. I’d be happy with a first and Kravtsov from the Rangers. Or a first and Jack Drury from Carolina.

Toews would be such a good fit for any team that needs a middle six center who can win draws. NYR, CAR, FLA, COL.
- ObeseOprah

Thinking out loud.....doesn't it make sense for Davidson to start fielding offers for both Toews and kane, and see what teams will be interested based on his price so when he does sit down with each player and Brisson he can present options "NYR, Tor, Car are all interested and we can make something work on our side as well" ?

I wonder what the next group of guys like 13, 6, 5, 17, 24, and even 89 would fetch? 89 would intrigue me as a depth player knowing how important those 3rd and 4th line goals are and figuring with his jets vs a 3rd pairing whos likely beat to hell and/or slow, he can quickly flip the ice and at worst get an offensive draw for your 1st or 2nd line on a whistle.

17/24...seem like nice adds for teams looking to round out a roster.

As bad as this team is, think they have some pieces some GMs would want to pounce on outside of 19/88. Assuming either and/or both waive.

I wonder if some think that they should tear down the Hull statue in front of the UC?
- BetweenTheDots

I’m sure that conversation will happen.

Thinking out loud.....doesn't it make sense for Davidson to start fielding offers for both Toews and kane, and see what teams will be interested based on his price so when he does sit down with each player and Brisson he can present options "NYR, Tor, Car are all interested and we can make something work on our side as well" ?

I wonder what the next group of guys like 13, 6, 5, 17, 24, and even 89 would fetch? 89 would intrigue me as a depth player knowing how important those 3rd and 4th line goals are and figuring with his jets vs a 3rd pairing whos likely beat to hell and/or slow, he can quickly flip the ice and at worst get an offensive draw for your 1st or 2nd line on a whistle.

17/24...seem like nice adds for teams looking to round out a roster.

As bad as this team is, think they have some pieces some GMs would want to pounce on outside of 19/88. Assuming either and/or both waive.
- SteveRain

I’d hope KD has already had discussions. Not sure of the process but wouldn’t KD have a discussion with another team(s) then come back to Toews or Kane and see if they’d be will to waive to go there!