Do you know anything about what kind of internal review/accountability systems they have in place for refs? Is there anything beyond playoff assignments? I don’t actually think anything regarding ref accountability should be made public as it would just add fuel to all the “we were screwed” fire but knowing that refs are being assessed would be good.

I agree about calls being nuanced but I’m less clear about how much flows from some league mandated game management concept versus just the flow and emotions of the game itself.

I’m also conflicted about the puck over glass penalty. In some ways I’m inclined to stay with the too bad even if it was an accident approach. I’d hate to have the video replay guys trying to assess the fear in the guy’s eyes just before he shot it over.
- Canada Cup

I've watched games that I'm not particularly invested in be particularly one-sided in terms of infractions committed, but very even in terms of the penalties doled out. We all have. Those games often favour the aggressor because game management is a stupid idea. The rules should be enforced as set forth. So if a ref is going to have a game where they "let them play", the standard that's set from the opening whistle needs to the same standard that is used all game long for both teams regardless of the situation. Or in other words - I am not convinced that game management isn't a thing - and in fact I am 100% positive it is. There's too much empirical evidence.

As for the puck over the glass, what I'm saying there is - if it's going to continue to be an automatic penalty, then it should be reviewable if there's doubt. My actual preference is that this just stop being a penalty altogether. It's a ridiculous thing to just give a penalty for playing the puck. What next? A shot from the point that goes out of play is a penalty? People will start justifying it by saying, "Well, if you didn't want a penalty, maybe you should have hit the right net!" The NHL under modern management (I sincerely blame Campbell more than Bettman) is a bucket of bad and lazy solutions to problems that already had solutions but weren't being enforced.

Bad reffing in every league. It won’t change because the leagues don’t want them calling things “by the book”.


- TurdFergeson

It could improve with reviews and accountability for the refs/linesman. If they do a poopty job throughout the year, they shouldnt be allowed to work a playoff game. There should also be more transparency post game, whether it be interviews or grading.
It will never happen, more accountability is needed in some form

I've watched games that I'm not particularly invested in be particularly one-sided in terms of infractions committed, but very even in terms of the penalties doled out. We all have. Those games often favour the aggressor because game management is a stupid idea. The rules should be enforced as set forth. So if a ref is going to have a game where they "let them play", the standard that's set from the opening whistle needs to the same standard that is used all game long for both teams regardless of the situation. Or in other words - I am not convinced that game management isn't a thing - and in fact I am 100% positive it is. There's too much empirical evidence.

As for the puck over the glass, what I'm saying there is - if it's going to continue to be an automatic penalty, then it should be reviewable if there's doubt. My actual preference is that this just stop being a penalty altogether. It's a ridiculous thing to just give a penalty for playing the puck. What next? A shot from the point that goes out of play is a penalty? People will start justifying it by saying, "Well, if you didn't want a penalty, maybe you should have hit the right net!" The NHL under modern management (I sincerely blame Campbell more than Bettman) is a bucket of bad and lazy solutions to problems that already had solutions but weren't being enforced.
- Monkeypunk

The concept of game management confuses me. I agree that the way that refs call penalties often changes over the course of a game. I’m less sure that this is the result of some league mandated “game management” idea that people seem to talk about rather than how refs are responding to the emotional flow of the game. It’s possible that they have a missed call in the back of their heads or that they don’t want to influence a tight game or that they want to clamp down on a game that’s getting out of control. So yeah, calls will be different and they kinda shouldn’t be but they will.

It could improve with reviews and accountability for the refs/linesman. If they do a poopty job throughout the year, they shouldnt be allowed to work a playoff game. There should also be more transparency post game, whether it be interviews or grading.
It will never happen, more accountability is needed in some form
- Fakepartofme

I think that’s what happens in the NHL (in theory). Refs for the playoffs are selected based on an assessment of their performance during the year. Two points for every time you screw the Leafs cause Leafs

The Golden Jet grounded. Bobby Hull dead

I've watched games that I'm not particularly invested in be particularly one-sided in terms of infractions committed, but very even in terms of the penalties doled out. We all have. Those games often favour the aggressor because game management is a stupid idea. The rules should be enforced as set forth. So if a ref is going to have a game where they "let them play", the standard that's set from the opening whistle needs to the same standard that is used all game long for both teams regardless of the situation. Or in other words - I am not convinced that game management isn't a thing - and in fact I am 100% positive it is. There's too much empirical evidence.

As for the puck over the glass, what I'm saying there is - if it's going to continue to be an automatic penalty, then it should be reviewable if there's doubt. My actual preference is that this just stop being a penalty altogether. It's a ridiculous thing to just give a penalty for playing the puck. What next? A shot from the point that goes out of play is a penalty? People will start justifying it by saying, "Well, if you didn't want a penalty, maybe you should have hit the right net!" The NHL under modern management (I sincerely blame Campbell more than Bettman) is a bucket of bad and lazy solutions to problems that already had solutions but weren't being enforced.
- Monkeypunk

I don't think there's any momentum toward making a shot over the glass a penalty. Everyone knows that a player is not trying to do that. But with a defensive player, if it weren't a penalty, it would make sense to just pitch it over the glass to relieve pressure and get stoppage in play. It sucks when it happens to your team, but it's the only way to ensure that no player ever does that intentionally.

The thing with hockey is, even if the game was called by guys watching a zillion camera angels, there'd still be missed calls and complaints about calls. It's part of the game. Maybe they can get ChatGPT to call the games soon.

It could improve with reviews and accountability for the refs/linesman. If they do a poopty job throughout the year, they shouldnt be allowed to work a playoff game. There should also be more transparency post game, whether it be interviews or grading.
It will never happen, more accountability is needed in some form
- Fakepartofme

Mahomes is one weird looking cat.

The Golden Jet grounded. Bobby Hull dead
- Canada Cup

A sad day. I'd met Bobby a number of times and always called him by his nickname, Jet. I remember being in my 20's, in the early '80's and the Jet would come out and watch us all play in the Ball Hockey League, during the summer months. He was always pleasant when we spoke. He only lived 20 minutes from where I live. Another legend dies from the Glory days of hockey. His best quote, in his short time as a colour man at Hockey Night in Canada: Asked about Harold Ballard and how he ran the Leafs. "Someone needs to pat him on the face with a shovel. That got him fired!

He is just in love with the player
- Aaron_85

Yes
He’s my boyfriend
And when I grow up.. I’m gonna marry him
I choo-choo-choose him
🙄

Let’s go Kyle

Time to trade for Motte
- mr.sir

He was a reliable player in Vancouver. Couldn’t complain about his effort/competitiveness. If you get him without giving up much, he’d be a good add to the bottom six.

my 2 football pools are busted, picked Cinci and Buffalo

I don't think there's any momentum toward making a shot over the glass a penalty. Everyone knows that a player is not trying to do that. But with a defensive player, if it weren't a penalty, it would make sense to just pitch it over the glass to relieve pressure and get stoppage in play. It sucks when it happens to your team, but it's the only way to ensure that no player ever does that intentionally.
- Zezel

The shot over the glass example is an exaggeration to illustrate the point that the puck over the glass is an absurd penalty and also how easily it is to normalize poor process decisions with people.

They already can and always could call the deliberate act of shooting of the puck out of play a penalty - they just weren't. So instead of punishing refs for failing to do their jobs, they just made it mandatory. It was a piss poor reaction to something they knew Jersey was doing intentionally to relieve the pressure. They also introduced the trapezoids in the corners because of Brodeur. I hated New Jersey, but those rules were preposterous reactions.

You know what else they could do? Raise the glass. It's more cost prohibitive, but frankly penalties for simply playing hockey are stupid.

Ultimately I want more real penalties called and less bullpoop and unnecessary penalties called. And where I get here is that I sincerely believe that there are times that refs give teams a break (whether it's emotional flow of the game or game management or normal human behaviour) because they've already called what feels like too many penalties against them. I'd rather see the egregious head punches, cross checks, trips, holds and hooks penalized than the puck over the glass.

The shot over the glass example is an exaggeration to illustrate the point that the puck over the glass is an absurd penalty and also how easily it is to normalize poor process decisions with people.

They already can and always could call the deliberate act of shooting of the puck out of play a penalty - they just weren't. So instead of punishing refs for failing to do their jobs, they just made it mandatory. It was a piss poor reaction to something they knew Jersey was doing intentionally to relieve the pressure. They also introduced the trapezoids in the corners because of Brodeur. I hated New Jersey, but those rules were preposterous reactions.

You know what else they could do? Raise the glass. It's more cost prohibitive, but frankly penalties for simply playing hockey are stupid.

Ultimately I want more real penalties called and less bullpoop and unnecessary penalties called. And where I get here is that I sincerely believe that there are times that refs give teams a break (whether it's emotional flow of the game or game management or normal human behaviour) because they've already called what feels like too many penalties against them. I'd rather see the egregious head punches, cross checks, trips, holds and hooks penalized than the puck over the glass.
- Monkeypunk

I just think it's one of those things that if you don't call, it's going to be a tactic used by teams to delay the game. I agree I'd like to see the stuff you've mentioned called, but the puck over the glass call I think is a simple choice between having intentional delay of game in the game or not.

The more I think about it, the more I think the puck over glass penalty is one of the rare examples where it completely eliminates the thing that it's trying to eliminate. No one puts the puck over the glass intentionally. If only all penalties could be so effective.

The more I think about it, the more I think the puck over glass penalty is one of the rare examples where it completely eliminates the thing that it's trying to eliminate. No one puts the puck over the glass intentionally. If only all penalties could be so effective.
- Zezel

So in the course of a regular hockey game - before this rule was instituted, how frequently do you think pucks were shot over the glass intentionally vs. accidentally?

I'll tell you what I saw: it was far more frequently accidental then as well. So we're giving teams a possible game swinging advantage for an infraction that had nothing whatsoever to do with player safety, scoring opportunities or sportsmanship.

Simply put: It shouldn't be a penalty.

So in the course of a regular hockey game - before this rule was instituted, how frequently do you think pucks were shot over the glass intentionally vs. accidentally?

I'll tell you what I saw: it was far more frequently accidental then as well. So we're giving teams a possible game swinging advantage for an infraction that had nothing whatsoever to do with player safety, scoring opportunities or sportsmanship.

Simply put: It shouldn't be a penalty.
- Monkeypunk

I think if even once out of 82 games a player intentionally shoots a frozen puck over the glass it is very bad. Fan safety is important.

People have died from this, its a penalty and always will be.

So in the course of a regular hockey game - before this rule was instituted, how frequently do you think pucks were shot over the glass intentionally vs. accidentally?

I'll tell you what I saw: it was far more frequently accidental then as well. So we're giving teams a possible game swinging advantage for an infraction that had nothing whatsoever to do with player safety, scoring opportunities or sportsmanship.

Simply put: It shouldn't be a penalty.
- Monkeypunk

That's the thing, it's impossible to be sure when it's intentional or not, unless the penalty is in place. It ensures that things stay sportsmanlike, in that the player under pressure must clear the puck skillfully, rather take the easy way out.

new blog everyone

That's the thing, it's impossible to be sure when it's intentional or not, unless the penalty is in place. It ensures that things stay sportsmanlike, in that the player under pressure must clear the puck skillfully, rather take the easy way out.
- Zezel

Remember when Marner was a huge coward for putting the puck over the glass when the Leafs when a man during the playoffs?