This board loves to blame Clarke and Homer Bill, they’ll never give in. Hexy sucked, Fletcher sucked more, here we are
- ClaudeFather

They also like to cry about how different things would be if Snider were still alive..like Homer and the old bullies wouldnt still be involved

Continue to defend it. That’s where you lose credibility.

Keeping the Flyers family together, is clearly more important than success.
- FlyerFan3260

1) I feel very comfortable with my credibility. Because I know what the hell I'm actually talking about.

2) Resorting to hyperbole like calling someone "despicable" when you blatantly know very little about the person or "incompetent" when you have virtually no real-world knowledge base of what management entails is a sure sign that person can be dismissed out of hand. I'm not an expert myself -- not a GM, not a scout, not a coach, not a player -- but I think I grasp things pretty well by layman standards. And I am qualified to discuss the character of people I actually know and/or have friends in the business I trust. The late Jay Greenberg forgot more than you and I together will ever know.

When Jay wrote this, he meant people such as you: "So great is my respect for the difficulty of the job and the dedication and experience men bring to it, that only once can I ever remember calling for a coach’s head. It wasn’t a hockey coach, just a really bad guy. In the vast majority of cases, the coaches know what they are doing and are considered idiots on fan boards, social media and in the upper bowl by persons who have little clue. The same goes for the majority of GMs and scouts but I feel the strongest about the coaches."

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=95758

3) The Flyers have plenty of problems (salary cap management/planning and a lack of bonafide 1st line/top D pair prospects being near the top). I'm not "defending" anything or saying I agree with every decision. But I'm also not going to suffer a fool.

4) There's plenty of stuff behind the scenes that you aren't privy to. I only am privy to a fraction of it. I will just say this. Pulling the management strings of the org from afar is not Clarke's main interest nowadays and certainly not Homer's. And Ant knows some of it but chose not to refer to it because it's off the record.
- bmeltzer

And probably wouldn't garner clicks

I read the article.

1) People missed this takeaway -- which I've been saying for years because I'm actually around both the team and the Alumni: "That narrative is completely wrong when it comes to making roster decisions." So can we finally put that one rest?

2) The only senior advisor who was part of the interviewing process for the head coach was Dean Lombardi. Not Clarke. Not Homer. Not Barber. Not Mike O'Connell. Yes, their opinions were asked about candidates -- that is what their role is: give an opinion is asked for one. Guess what: If the torch mob got their way, at least some of their opinions would privately be asked for.

3) You lose any and all credibility when you use the word "despicable". Homer especially is a very high character person. So is Bill Barber. I don't personally know Clarke or Lombardi very well but I know how personally fond Jay Greenberg was of Clarke and that Lombardi confided in Jay during the writing of Flyers at 50 (things that never made the book). I have a lot of respect for Homer and all the things he does for people without ever wanting any publicity for it. He's a tremendous human being.

As far as "incompetent" goes, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary, although every GM makes mistakes along the way.

4) There's plenty of stuff behind the scenes that you aren't privy to. I only am privy to a fraction of it. I will just say this. Pulling the management strings of the org from afar is not Clarke's main interest nowadays and certainly not Homer's. And Ant knows some of it but chose not to refer to it because it's off the record.
- bmeltzer

Also, thank you for this thoughtful response

I read the article.

1) People missed this takeaway -- which I've been saying for years because I'm actually around both the team and the Alumni: "That narrative is completely wrong when it comes to making roster decisions." So can we finally put that one rest?

2) The only senior advisor who was part of the interviewing process for the head coach was Dean Lombardi. Not Clarke. Not Homer. Not Barber. Not Mike O'Connell. Yes, their opinions were asked about candidates -- that is what their role is: give an opinion is asked for one. Guess what: If the torch mob got their way, at least some of their opinions would privately be asked for.

3) You lose any and all credibility when you use the word "despicable". Homer especially is a very high character person. So is Bill Barber. I don't personally know Clarke or Lombardi very well but I know how personally fond Jay Greenberg was of Clarke and that Lombardi confided in Jay during the writing of Flyers at 50 (things that never made the book). I have a lot of respect for Homer and all the things he does for people without ever wanting any publicity for it. He's a tremendous human being.

As far as "incompetent" goes, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary, although every GM makes mistakes along the way.

4) There's plenty of stuff behind the scenes that you aren't privy to. I only am privy to a fraction of it. I will just say this. Pulling the management strings of the org from afar is not Clarke's main interest nowadays and certainly not Homer's. And Ant knows some of it but chose not to refer to it because it's off the record.
- bmeltzer

Just how bad does it have to get before someone finds a way to spill the beans? Although the beans in this case are probably more like honey, and there will be no way to put that sticky mess back in the jar.

1) I feel very comfortable with my credibility. Because I know what the hell I'm actually talking about.

2) Resorting to hyperbole like calling someone "despicable" when you blatantly know very little about the person or "incompetent" when you have virtually no real-world knowledge base of what management entails is a sure sign that person can be dismissed out of hand. I'm not an expert myself -- not a GM, not a scout, not a coach, not a player -- but I think I grasp things pretty well by layman standards. And I am qualified to discuss the character of people I actually know and/or have friends in the business I trust. The late Jay Greenberg forgot more than you and I together will ever know.

When Jay wrote this, he meant people such as you: "So great is my respect for the difficulty of the job and the dedication and experience men bring to it, that only once can I ever remember calling for a coach’s head. It wasn’t a hockey coach, just a really bad guy. In the vast majority of cases, the coaches know what they are doing and are considered idiots on fan boards, social media and in the upper bowl by persons who have little clue. The same goes for the majority of GMs and scouts but I feel the strongest about the coaches."

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=95758

3) The Flyers have plenty of problems (salary cap management/planning and a lack of bonafide 1st line/top D pair prospects being near the top). I'm not "defending" anything or saying I agree with every decision. But I'm also not going to suffer a fool.
- bmeltzer

Excellent!

By and large fans are the last folks who should be judging the capabilities of the professionals. They're ill-equipped to do so.

Great article by ASF Bill.

Anything to add on this sack of poop country club? Like I always said, winning doesn’t matter here. Just making sure the good ol’ boys keep their jobs.

Despicable, and incompetent men. Every single one. It’s a good thing those who have managed to hide for so long are slowly being exposed.

https://www.crossingbroad...-king-making-network.html
- FlyerFan3260

Reading the Flyers personnel history is like reading the family tree of a group of West Virginia mountain people.

Just how bad does it have to get before someone finds a way to spill the beans? Although the beans in this case are probably more like honey, and there will be no way to put that sticky mess back in the jar.
- NC Flyers Fan

Clarke is 73 and has type 1 diabetes. I’d imagine his own health is his major concern right now.

Clarke is 73 and has type 1 diabetes. I’d imagine his own health is his major concern right now.
- Dkos

I am not among those who think Clarke and Homer have any involvement in day-to-day hockey ops.

When media says things about division, not pulling the same rope, different motives etc., I have to imagine that they refer to those actually in the room daily.

Reading the Flyers personnel history is like reading the family tree of a group of West Virginia mountain people.

- Letterkenney

Ever tried to trace genealogy from there? I like to think all Americans have or will someday have lineage from there. Those families are HUGE!

Clarke is 73 and has type 1 diabetes. I’d imagine his own health is his major concern right now.
- Dkos

Clarke was diagnosed with diabetes at age 13. He’s taken care of his health all his life. Homer has lost at least 2 family members to diabetes. It can be managed.

Ever tried to trace genealogy from there? I like to think all Americans have or will someday have lineage from there. Those families are HUGE!

- NC Flyers Fan

Where brothers and sisters and cousins are simultaneously fathers and uncles to the same people at the same time? YIKES!!!

1) I feel very comfortable with my credibility. Because I know what the hell I'm actually talking about.

2) Resorting to hyperbole like calling someone "despicable" when you blatantly know very little about the person or "incompetent" when you have virtually no real-world knowledge base of what management entails is a sure sign that person can be dismissed out of hand. I'm not an expert myself -- not a GM, not a scout, not a coach, not a player -- but I think I grasp things pretty well by layman standards. And I am qualified to discuss the character of people I actually know and/or have friends in the business I trust. The late Jay Greenberg forgot more than you and I together will ever know.

When Jay wrote this, he meant people such as you: "So great is my respect for the difficulty of the job and the dedication and experience men bring to it, that only once can I ever remember calling for a coach’s head. It wasn’t a hockey coach, just a really bad guy. In the vast majority of cases, the coaches know what they are doing and are considered idiots on fan boards, social media and in the upper bowl by persons who have little clue. The same goes for the majority of GMs and scouts but I feel the strongest about the coaches."

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=95758

3) The Flyers have plenty of problems (salary cap management/planning and a lack of bonafide 1st line/top D pair prospects being near the top). I'm not "defending" anything or saying I agree with every decision. But I'm also not going to suffer a fool.
- bmeltzer

If you’d like to catch on to one word, try to steer the conversation more about that instead of the article, and what it exposes… Feel free to stand on that podium.

The Flyers are dogpoop for what’s essentially the last 10 seasons. Continually behind the times in the way the game is heading, in the process of building a true contender, and developing youth.

That’s not hyperbole. That’s fact. If you want to continue to defend it, saying things like rvery GM makes mistakes so be it.

I am more concerned about the obvious incestous relationship that entangles that front office, and other departments.

Which have all operated for far too long below par. It’s pathetic how low the standards are for this organization as long as they can say they play the “Flyer way”.

Do the men you so proudly defend have any accountability to anyone?

If the day ever comes that Camillo takes over, and has the brains to remove incompetence. It will be a great day for the team, and city.

Where brothers and sisters and cousins are simultaneously fathers and uncles to the same people at the same time? YIKES!!!
- Letterkenney

The repeated use of names really get me, too. How can they all be John—fathers, brothers and sons, nephews, cousins and grandsons?

They also like to cry about how different things would be if Snider were still alive..like Homer and the old bullies wouldnt still be involved
- Dkos

I remember statements on this same board that Snider was meddling in the day-to- day business, and the Flyers would never win another cup while he was still alive.
The blame has to be assigned.

I remember statements on this same board that Snider was meddling in the day-to- day business, and the Flyers would never win another cup while he was still alive.
The blame has to be assigned.
- missingmike

RIP Mr. Snider

I read the article.

1) People missed this takeaway -- which I've been saying for years because I'm actually around both the team and the Alumni: "That narrative is completely wrong when it comes to making roster decisions." So can we finally put that one rest?


- bmeltzer

The narrative was never about the country club actually making the roster decisions. It's their influence over those who do and who is hired to do it.

2) The only senior advisor who was part of the interviewing process for the head coach was Dean Lombardi. Not Clarke. Not Homer. Not Barber. Not Mike O'Connell. Yes, their opinions were asked about candidates -- that is what their role is: give an opinion is asked for one. Guess what: If the torch mob got their way, at least some of their opinions would privately be asked for.


- bmeltzer

I don't know how anyone would know whose opinion was asked for privately and whose wasn't. They shouldn't have any role whatsoever.

3) You lose any and all credibility when you use the word "despicable". Homer especially is a very high character person. So is Bill Barber. I don't personally know Clarke or Lombardi very well but I know how personally fond Jay Greenberg was of Clarke and that Lombardi confided in Jay during the writing of Flyers at 50 (things that never made the book). I have a lot of respect for Homer and all the things he does for people without ever wanting any publicity for it. He's a tremendous human being.

As far as "incompetent" goes, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary, although every GM makes mistakes along the way.


- bmeltzer

Despicable is not a word I would use. Complicit is the word I would use.

4) There's plenty of stuff behind the scenes that you aren't privy to. I only am privy to a fraction of it. I will just say this. Pulling the management strings of the org from afar is not Clarke's main interest nowadays and certainly not Homer's. And Ant knows some of it but chose not to refer to it because it's off the record.
- bmeltzer

The influence of Clarke and Holmgren is painfully obvious. It was announced to everyone when Scott and Holmgren had that ridiculously absurd press conference when they fired Hextall. This organization continues to operate under old school methods used with Clarke and Holmgren. Until both and the rest of the country club are completely removed and someone is brought in to catch the team up to the modern day NHL. This franchise is doomed.

No phone service where he is at. No internet for laptop meetings.
- MJL

Clark thinks “Zoom” is they way kids now a days mean zoo

Where can we find that online? Usually in my Twitter feed... but not today.
- ForeverFlyer16

YouTube

They might as well dress another defender and make DeAngelo a forward. I know this was talked about with Ghost as well. This guy is up ice so often you might as well just make him a winger. It's terrible actually. I have to correct myself from the beginning of the year when I thought this guy was a good bit better than Ghost. He is just another Ghost and perhaps he's even worse without a good complimenting defense partner that suits his game.
- Phillywhiteout

I think Ghost is terrible defensively myself but yes, I have to agree. DeAngelo is much worse.

The GM is a putz. The simple fact he seeks then ask any of the advisors for their opinion in 2022/23 proves he is a putz. He is a people pleaser type GM.

Also the other non advisors on the GM's management team need to be called out. WTF have they done in 4 + years? Bad free agent moves, very suspect drafting, any good trades?, any productive players they find in Europe or elsewhere (undrafted free agents or top ranked college free agents?

Just a total mess from top to bottom. Chuck will still be the GM until the end of the 2023/24 season. That is my prediction.

Clarke was diagnosed with diabetes at age 13. He’s taken care of his health all his life. Homer has lost at least 2 family members to diabetes. It can be managed.
- Minnyhock

I hope he has a long and healthy life. I’m just saying, a guy his age, and with possible complications due to his condition, could have plenty to deal with beyond worrying about this team…and perhaps he wants to keep it private.

Sami Kapanen (who is back working with the org as a development coach and scout in Europe) and Keith Primeau didn't "do" anything. Sami especially has always been highly regarded. Their sons weren't drafted for the same reasons that other Alumni sons don't get drafted. The Flyers didn't draft Ridly Greig, either, and his dad (Flyers/Phantoms alum and longtime current western Canada scout Mark) was glad for it.

It's a no-win situation: Draft the Alum's kid and people scream nepotism. Don't draft him and "it's what did his dad do for you not to draft him?"
- bmeltzer

thanks for the response bill. was just pointing out where the theory is wrong or doesn't add up.

1) I feel very comfortable with my credibility. Because I know what the hell I'm actually talking about.

2) Resorting to hyperbole like calling someone "despicable" when you blatantly know very little about the person or "incompetent" when you have virtually no real-world knowledge base of what management entails is a sure sign that person can be dismissed out of hand. I'm not an expert myself -- not a GM, not a scout, not a coach, not a player -- but I think I grasp things pretty well by layman standards. And I am qualified to discuss the character of people I actually know and/or have friends in the business I trust. The late Jay Greenberg forgot more than you and I together will ever know.

When Jay wrote this, he meant people such as you: "So great is my respect for the difficulty of the job and the dedication and experience men bring to it, that only once can I ever remember calling for a coach’s head. It wasn’t a hockey coach, just a really bad guy. In the vast majority of cases, the coaches know what they are doing and are considered idiots on fan boards, social media and in the upper bowl by persons who have little clue. The same goes for the majority of GMs and scouts but I feel the strongest about the coaches."

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=95758

3) The Flyers have plenty of problems (salary cap management/planning and a lack of bonafide 1st line/top D pair prospects being near the top). I'm not "defending" anything or saying I agree with every decision. But I'm also not going to suffer a fool.
- bmeltzer

another reason why you are the best. thank you

I hope he has a long and healthy life. I’m just saying, a guy his age, and with possible complications due to his condition, could have plenty to deal with beyond worrying about this team…and perhaps he wants to keep it private.
- Dkos

Well said.