but thats not really how it is, you can still kick or direct it with your skate in the net, they just have to guess if its a kicking motion etc..

if it were that simple we wouldnt talk about it ever 3rd game.
- senstroll

If they see it as a kick it’s not allowed, a deflection is, yes I know this.

Here’s the problem with legalizing an obvious kicking motion. It would begin to occur far more often, 100 times more at the very least, coaches would begin to put it into their team’s offensive attacks as well, likely increasing goalie injuries and making the game look more ridiculous. It’s unfortunate to say that but let’s face it, it’s true if kicking the puck was legal.

Florida loses again...if they are where they are in about a month a Bennett and Gudas(50%retained) may be the best deal out there.

This this 1000000000000 times this! I'm with you on this and yes total goalie bias but screw you non-goalies if your not good enough to beat me by shooting the puck with your million dollar space age technology stick then you don't deserve a goal!

Look up the definition of a goal in hockey and I guarantee you almost all definition's will talk about the puck being put into the with a stick.

As much as I was bummed McMann didn't get his 1st NHL goal last night according to the rule book it's the right call and the Leafs benefitted from that rule vs New Jersey earlier in the year - you can't suck and blow (keep your minds out of the gutter).

I'd be fine if the rule was if a puck goes into the net via anything other than the offensive team player's stick it's no goal. The exception can be if it's an unintentional (and yes that's a referee judgement call) such as a deflection off a shin pad etc.

I'd just say no player can direct the puck with their skates period or it's a automatic no goal if the puck enters the net as a result of that kick regarless of who it goes off off to stop guys from trying to kick it for a deflection.

As a goalie the thought of guys trying to kick pucks in the blue paint to bounce it in off me is terrifying and asking for a serious injury.

My admittedly biased opinion.
- Cush29

Meh, most goalies whine too much....and i was a goalie (who didnt whine).
As a goalie if you leave your grease, youre fair game, dont whine if you get hit.
As a goalie, be better at stopping the puck, whether it goes in off someones leg, foot or whatever.
Now i get we dont want players wearing skates kicking pucks at the net, but mccann didnt kick it at the net...as in he wasn't using his feet to try kick the puck into the net to score..
But a rule is a rule, and right now it states you cant do what McCann did, so it doesnt count. No biggie moving on.
But im all for more scoring, it sucks as a goalie, but it is what it is.

Florida loses again...if they are where they are in about a month a Bennett and Gudas(50%retained) may be the best deal out there.
- Santo_44

Florida really fell off lol.
But still, pass on both.

Florida really fell off lol.
But still, pass on both.
- Fakepartofme

They made a dumb trade.

Giving up Weegar was brutal.

I do not pass, they are both perfect fits. Its just Florida is in a weird spot where they may not want to swallow their pride and risk finishing lower and giving Montreal a top 3 pick.

BUT they have to trade someone in the next month...they will be 3M over the cap.

If they see it as a kick it’s not allowed, a deflection is, yes I know this.

Here’s the problem with legalizing an obvious kicking motion. It would begin to occur far more often, 100 times more at the very least, coaches would begin to put it into their team’s offensive attacks as well, likely increasing goalie injuries and making the game look more ridiculous. It’s unfortunate to say that but let’s face it, it’s true if kicking the puck was legal.
- Dozzer

I can see that.

no perfect solution.

Meh, most goalies whine too much....and i was a goalie (who didnt whine).
As a goalie if you leave your grease, youre fair game, dont whine if you get hit.
As a goalie, be better at stopping the puck, whether it goes in off someones leg, foot or whatever.
Now i get we dont want players wearing skates kicking pucks at the net, but mccann didnt kick it at the net...as in he wasn't using his feet to try kick the puck into the net to score..
But a rule is a rule, and right now it states you cant do what McCann did, so it doesnt count. No biggie moving on.
But im all for more scoring, it sucks as a goalie, but it is what it is.

- Fakepartofme

It's not whining to not want my fingers sliced off. If there's a scrum around the net and I'm trying to cover the puck, I don't want some twatwaffle kicking at the puck - which by proxy is kicking at me. My glove had some protection, but the finger-side of the blocker wouldn't have withstood a skate blade.

There is a crease for a reason - and the reason is supposed to be the protection of the goalies. The fact that the league decides to ignore this in 90% of the cases, and in 100% of the rules they decide to make is insipid. The goalie, on several teams, is or has been their star player. For the most part when *I* played, it was at a low-enough level or in a rec enough setting that I was rarely concerned for my well-being (in fact I was probably far more exposed in ball hockey, to be honest) - but the NHL definitely has two sets of safety rules that it applies to the skaters and the goalies and those rules are enforced vastly differently.

I can see that.

no perfect solution.
- senstroll

Yup, hence the simple rule.

Can a coach demand it gets reviewed on video? Honest question, I can’t remember.

It's not whining to not want my fingers sliced off. If there's a scrum around the net and I'm trying to cover the puck, I don't want some twatwaffle kicking at the puck - which by proxy is kicking at me. My glove had some protection, but the finger-side of the blocker wouldn't have withstood a skate blade.

There is a crease for a reason - and the reason is supposed to be the protection of the goalies. The fact that the league decides to ignore this in 90% of the cases, and in 100% of the rules they decide to make is insipid. The goalie, on several teams, is or has been their star player. For the most part when *I* played, it was at a low-enough level or in a rec enough setting that I was rarely concerned for my well-being (in fact I was probably far more exposed in ball hockey, to be honest) - but the NHL definitely has two sets of safety rules that it applies to the skaters and the goalies and those rules are enforced vastly differently.
- Monkeypunk

No i get not wanting people kicking in the crease for obvious reasons, as i stated (and as a goalie, youre not going to get your fingers sliced off, jesus. The finger side of the blocker is wrapped around a stick).
Ya much more contact in ball hockey as well when i played, which i was fine with. If i left my grease, i was expecting some contact. Hated when goalies threw temper tantrums cause they were touched when handling the puck or ball. Then dont leave your grease and if theres a scrum in front of your net, expect contact or getting whacked with a stick. Such is life. It was painful at times, but suck it up and move on. Dont play goalie if it bothers you that much.

Yup, hence the simple rule.

Can a coach demand it gets reviewed on video? Honest question, I can’t remember.
- Dozzer

I think so, wasnt that what occurred last night?
I thought the request to review came from detroit.
Could be wrong

They made a dumb trade.

Giving up Weegar was brutal.

I do not pass, they are both perfect fits. Its just Florida is in a weird spot where they may not want to swallow their pride and risk finishing lower and giving Montreal a top 3 pick.

BUT they have to trade someone in the next month...they will be 3M over the cap.
- Santo_44

They're an interesting team to watch. Like. Not actually view, but to see how they're doing. Paul Maurice . . . how does he keep getting jobs? How could they make the decision to let Brunette go after a record setting season - and hire Maurice. I. Don't. Get. It.

I mean they have actually had a relatively hard schedule for the first half of the season, and while I haven't looked at the second half, it has to balance itself out. They're chasing Pittsburgh and Washington, objectively, for Wildcard spots - because I believe they will still place higher than Buffalo, Detroit and Ottawa (and Buffalo has been getting it together, so I wouldn't bet on that, either!) - but they are 9 points back of Washington, and 6 points back of Pittsburgh (who have 3 games in hand on them) - both of whom should also have easier second halves of the season than the first half.

They made a dumb trade.

Giving up Weegar was brutal.

I do not pass, they are both perfect fits. Its just Florida is in a weird spot where they may not want to swallow their pride and risk finishing lower and giving Montreal a top 3 pick.

BUT they have to trade someone in the next month...they will be 3M over the cap.
- Santo_44

I believe the panthers thought they couldnt afford weagars new contract so they moved him out.

They made a dumb trade.

Giving up Weegar was brutal.

I do not pass, they are both perfect fits. Its just Florida is in a weird spot where they may not want to swallow their pride and risk finishing lower and giving Montreal a top 3 pick.

BUT they have to trade someone in the next month...they will be 3M over the cap.
- Santo_44

Weegar has not been great this year

I think so, wasnt that what occurred last night?
I thought the request to review came from detroit.
Could be wrong
- Fakepartofme

Yeah I can’t remember either tbh

They made a dumb trade.

Giving up Weegar was brutal.

I do not pass, they are both perfect fits. Its just Florida is in a weird spot where they may not want to swallow their pride and risk finishing lower and giving Montreal a top 3 pick.

BUT they have to trade someone in the next month...they will be 3M over the cap.
- Santo_44

$4.42 Bennett for 3 years and $2.5M for Gudas? How is that going to work? Is Florida going to retain for an Atlantic rival for the next two years?

No i get not wanting people kicking in the crease for obvious reasons, as i stated (and as a goalie, youre not going to get your fingers sliced off, jesus. The finger side of the blocker is wrapped around a stick).
Ya much more contact in ball hockey as well when i played, which i was fine with. If i left my grease, i was expecting some contact. Hated when goalies threw temper tantrums cause they were touched when handling the puck or ball. Then dont leave your grease and if theres a scrum in front of your net, expect contact or getting whacked with a stick. Such is life. It was painful at times, but suck it up and move on. Dont play goalie if it bothers you that much.
- Fakepartofme

You never dropped your stick or lost your stick and covered the puck with your blocker hand?

There are a few things here that are glaringly incorrect to me. A goalie leaving their crease does not make them fair game by today's rules in any league. You must still make efforts to avoid contact, and more specifically direct contact, with the goalie. Do I think that rule should change? Sort of - if the goalie is outside of his crease in the process of engaging in goaltending and making a save, direct contact should be considered interference unless the contact is the result of the pursuit of a loose puck. If the goalie is outside of their crease playing the puck - like a skater and they have possession of the puck - then they should be fair game to be body checked. You want to be the 6th man? You get treated like it. But that isn't the rule. The rules protect the goalie. Or are supposed to, at any rate.

Incidental contact while you're playing net is expected and fine. That said, and my point was that if I'm in my crease and some whackjob 50 year old neverwas flies through the crease and hits me in the head, I have every right to be pissed off. BTW, this crap only happened in ball hockey where it was even less excusable.

In the NHL, in my opinion, that stuff should be twice as protected because these are star players making millions of dollars who shouldn't have to put up with an illegal shot while they're making saves legally in their crease. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens a lot - the bullpoop Kypreos/Tkachuk/Bunting/Gallagher/Marchand play, "Oh. I just fell on top of him because of that horrible vicious tap I felt from the side!"

But all of that is a digression from the point of our initial conversation, which is the kicking motion - which really is my point that the NHL should be doing more to protect the goalies, not less.

They're an interesting team to watch. Like. Not actually view, but to see how they're doing. Paul Maurice . . . how does he keep getting jobs? How could they make the decision to let Brunette go after a record setting season - and hire Maurice. I. Don't. Get. It.

I mean they have actually had a relatively hard schedule for the first half of the season, and while I haven't looked at the second half, it has to balance itself out. They're chasing Pittsburgh and Washington, objectively, for Wildcard spots - because I believe they will still place higher than Buffalo, Detroit and Ottawa (and Buffalo has been getting it together, so I wouldn't bet on that, either!) - but they are 9 points back of Washington, and 6 points back of Pittsburgh (who have 3 games in hand on them) - both of whom should also have easier second halves of the season than the first half.
- Monkeypunk

They will be 8-10 points once Pitt finishes that stretch.

I think they are done, and like I said they have to trade someone and they can not trade Hornqvist.

$4.42 Bennett for 3 years and $2.5M for Gudas? How is that going to work? Is Florida going to retain for an Atlantic rival for the next two years?
- Canada Cup

Trade Engvall.

If they retain Gudas they would be 1.2M over with one sub.

Engvall gives them 1.4M in cap space.

Trade Engvall.

If they retain Gudas they would be 1.2M over with one sub.

Engvall gives them 1.4M in cap space.
- Santo_44

Engvall is gone next year anyway and there’s a bunch of ways to spend his $ before another two years of Bennett at $4.42M.

They're an interesting team to watch. Like. Not actually view, but to see how they're doing. Paul Maurice . . . how does he keep getting jobs? How could they make the decision to let Brunette go after a record setting season - and hire Maurice. I. Don't. Get. It.

I mean they have actually had a relatively hard schedule for the first half of the season, and while I haven't looked at the second half, it has to balance itself out. They're chasing Pittsburgh and Washington, objectively, for Wildcard spots - because I believe they will still place higher than Buffalo, Detroit and Ottawa (and Buffalo has been getting it together, so I wouldn't bet on that, either!) - but they are 9 points back of Washington, and 6 points back of Pittsburgh (who have 3 games in hand on them) - both of whom should also have easier second halves of the season than the first half.
- Monkeypunk

I assume they assumed Brunette was a great Assistant Coach with offensive flair and them losing so early was based on needing to "get hard and defensive" so they got Maurice.

You never dropped your stick or lost your stick and covered the puck with your blocker hand?

There are a few things here that are glaringly incorrect to me. A goalie leaving their crease does not make them fair game by today's rules in any league. You must still make efforts to avoid contact, and more specifically direct contact, with the goalie. Do I think that rule should change? Sort of - if the goalie is outside of his crease in the process of engaging in goaltending and making a save, direct contact should be considered interference unless the contact is the result of the pursuit of a loose puck. If the goalie is outside of their crease playing the puck - like a skater and they have possession of the puck - then they should be fair game to be body checked. You want to be the 6th man? You get treated like it. But that isn't the rule. The rules protect the goalie. Or are supposed to, at any rate.

Incidental contact while you're playing net is expected and fine. That said, and my point was that if I'm in my crease and some whackjob 50 year old neverwas flies through the crease and hits me in the head, I have every right to be pissed off. BTW, this crap only happened in ball hockey where it was even less excusable.

In the NHL, in my opinion, that stuff should be twice as protected because these are star players making millions of dollars who shouldn't have to put up with an illegal shot while they're making saves legally in their crease. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens a lot - the bullpoop Kypreos/Tkachuk/Bunting/Gallagher/Marchand play, "Oh. I just fell on top of him because of that horrible vicious tap I felt from the side!"

But all of that is a digression from the point of our initial conversation, which is the kicking motion - which really is my point that the NHL should be doing more to protect the goalies, not less.
- Monkeypunk

You never dropped your stick or lost your stick and covered the puck with your blocker hand?

There are a few things here that are glaringly incorrect to me. A goalie leaving their crease does not make them fair game by today's rules in any league. You must still make efforts to avoid contact, and more specifically direct contact, with the goalie. Do I think that rule should change? Sort of - if the goalie is outside of his crease in the process of engaging in goaltending and making a save, direct contact should be considered interference unless the contact is the result of the pursuit of a loose puck. If the goalie is outside of their crease playing the puck - like a skater and they have possession of the puck - then they should be fair game to be body checked. You want to be the 6th man? You get treated like it. But that isn't the rule. The rules protect the goalie. Or are supposed to, at any rate.

Incidental contact while you're playing net is expected and fine. That said, and my point was that if I'm in my crease and some whackjob 50 year old neverwas flies through the crease and hits me in the head, I have every right to be pissed off. BTW, this crap only happened in ball hockey where it was even less excusable.

In the NHL, in my opinion, that stuff should be twice as protected because these are star players making millions of dollars who shouldn't have to put up with an illegal shot while they're making saves legally in their crease. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens a lot - the bullpoop Kypreos/Tkachuk/Bunting/Gallagher/Marchand play, "Oh. I just fell on top of him because of that horrible vicious tap I felt from the side!"

But all of that is a digression from the point of our initial conversation, which is the kicking motion - which really is my point that the NHL should be doing more to protect the goalies, not less.
- Monkeypunk

Oh for sure get pissed off, never said not to..and you have a nice goalie stick to help convey your feelings to the 50 year douchecanoe. And of course in the NHL and in most leagues, the players are suppose to try to avoid the goalie when he/she is out of their crease...I just feel it shouldnt be. You leave your crease to play the puck, youre fair game. Does that mean some baffoon should run you over, no, but if you get a little hit, that should be fine. I hate seeing goalies get a tapped or touched by player sqeezing by them and the boards and they flop all over. Just so sad to see.
I already stated we dont want people kicking in the crease.
I just sometimes find that my goalie brethren can be too sensitive and "whiny" at times about certain things. I was like whatever, if the puck or ball gets in the net...it counts, I should have been better. Or maybe there was nothing I could...either way. Whatever, lets get the goal back and make the next stop.

The goalies are protected enough for crying out loud.

You never dropped your stick or lost your stick and covered the puck with your blocker hand?

There are a few things here that are glaringly incorrect to me. A goalie leaving their crease does not make them fair game by today's rules in any league. You must still make efforts to avoid contact, and more specifically direct contact, with the goalie. Do I think that rule should change? Sort of - if the goalie is outside of his crease in the process of engaging in goaltending and making a save, direct contact should be considered interference unless the contact is the result of the pursuit of a loose puck. If the goalie is outside of their crease playing the puck - like a skater and they have possession of the puck - then they should be fair game to be body checked. You want to be the 6th man? You get treated like it. But that isn't the rule. The rules protect the goalie. Or are supposed to, at any rate.

Incidental contact while you're playing net is expected and fine. That said, and my point was that if I'm in my crease and some whackjob 50 year old neverwas flies through the crease and hits me in the head, I have every right to be pissed off. BTW, this crap only happened in ball hockey where it was even less excusable.

In the NHL, in my opinion, that stuff should be twice as protected because these are star players making millions of dollars who shouldn't have to put up with an illegal shot while they're making saves legally in their crease. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens a lot - the bullpoop Kypreos/Tkachuk/Bunting/Gallagher/Marchand play, "Oh. I just fell on top of him because of that horrible vicious tap I felt from the side!"

But all of that is a digression from the point of our initial conversation, which is the kicking motion - which really is my point that the NHL should be doing more to protect the goalies, not less.
- Monkeypunk

Are we losing some exciting play by not allowing a player to kick the puck into the net? The rule is fine

Oh for sure get pissed off, never said not to..and you have a nice goalie stick to help convey your feelings to the 50 year douchecanoe. And of course in the NHL and in most leagues, the players are suppose to try to avoid the goalie when he/she is out of their crease...I just feel it shouldnt be. You leave your crease to play the puck, youre fair game. Does that mean some baffoon should run you over, no, but if you get a little hit, that should be fine. I hate seeing goalies get a tapped or touched by player sqeezing by them and the boards and they flop all over. Just so sad to see.
I already stated we dont want people kicking in the crease.
I just sometimes find that my goalie brethren can be too sensitive and "whiny" at times about certain things. I was like whatever, if the puck or ball gets in the net...it counts, I should have been better. Or maybe there was nothing I could...either way. Whatever, lets get the goal back and make the next stop.

The goalies are protected enough for crying out loud.
- Fakepartofme

I will say that it depends on your mindset, but I think most goalies accept the blame for any goal against. You can read a play and realize that your team had a failing - but that is your actual job as the goalie - to step up when those things happen and make a save. I mean . . I remember a game (and I can't recall if we were being destroyed or not, but I sort of think we were) where the other team got a 3 on 0, and they triangled up beautifully with the left winger carrying it in, the centre in the high position, and the right winger far side - and as I'm watching the play form, I see my team behind them not even skating - just watching the play.

If I recall that play correctly, the right-winger one-timed the pass over the net, but I'd slid over, and the left winger got the puck off the back boards and gave it back to the centre who popped it in - because no one from my team was STILL back. And I still blamed myself because if I hadn't slid so far to the left and been down so low, I could have gotten back to the centre of the net. Objectively you know it's really unlikely it's not going to end up in the net, but that doesn't change your personal expectations.

But I will argue to the bitter end of the Earth that goalies are not protected enough while they are in their crease.

Are we losing some exciting play by not allowing a player to kick the puck into the net? The rule is fine
- Canada Cup

I mean you could go watch soccer.

You know what you can't do in soccer? Score with a stick.

You know what else they do in soccer? They protect the goalie when he has possession of the ball.

And they have a lot less scoring than in hockey. And it's the most popular sport in the world.

One less bullcrap way to score in hockey is fine by me! The game is about talent and skill and playing hockey, not soccer.

But we've all had this conversation here before - I am - and will always be - against kicked in goals, and others here are for more ways to score. I don't think it's my fault that you're all horrible human beings.