Let's keep in mind that he's played 7 games. The season is 24 games old. He has the rest of this year and then next year to go. He has never posted back-to-back good seasons where he has played more than 20 games (which is just a fancy way of my excluding his first year where he played 13). I would like nothing more than for Matt Murray to be hugely and routinely successful here - because like most people here, I'm a Leaf fan and it would be awesome.

But that trade - the acquisition of Matt Murray with 25% salary retention with a 3rd and a 7th for nothing - was still technically an overpayment. Dorion had said that he wasn't willing to retain more than he would have paid in a buyout. A buyout of Matt Murray ($15m remaining salary - no bonus money) @ 66.7% over twice the remainder of the contract (2 years remaining) is $2.5m per for 4 years. Ottawa is retaining $1.56m - but Dorion was probably willing to go up to $2m, if not more. Murray also reportedly was quite willing to sign with Toronto, so making them buy Murray out and then working out a 2 year deal with him on a show-me contract while Ottawa has to pay him $2.5m for 4 years would have also been favourable.

I said then that I didn't like the trade and what we're paying for Matt Murray, and I say that now - it's not how he's performing - it's what we should be paying him based on his value at the time of acquisition.
- Monkeypunk

Are we sure there wasn't another team he was interested in playing for that were in those trade talks? Are we sure Sens were willing to go down that much?

its a lot of assuming. Murray probably would have been traded eventually over the offseason and goalie options are scarce after free agency, he had to make a decision.

Just imagine getting a top 15 pick for 2 months of Ben Chiarot.

- Scabeh

Not sure I understand rentals like that.

If there is a rental you are confident you can re sign then spend the 1st and a prospect.

Rentals should be mid round picks and meh prospects to fill the bottom of your lineup.

People were ragging on TB for giving so much for Hagel and they probably are out of anything this TDL because of it but that deal is turning out pretty good for them.

LEAAAAAAFFFFFFS

Borje patch (but not sweaters it seems) being sold. Game worn jerseys for tomorrow’s game will be auctioned. All proceeds to go to ALS charity
- Canada Cup

Fantastic.

I'm going to buy one, and have my mom sew it on my jean jacket, next to my Canada Fitness Award patch.

Not sure I understand rentals like that.

If there is a rental you are confident you can re sign then spend the 1st and a prospect.

Rentals should be mid round picks and meh prospects to fill the bottom of your lineup.

People were ragging on TB for giving so much for Hagel and they probably are out of anything this TDL because of it but that deal is turning out pretty good for them.
- Santo_44

Well that's the thing with rentals.

They are high cost/High risk moves.

If it pays off and you win, great. If it doesn't, you're left standing there looking like a fool.

Most of the time, it's the latter.

Let's keep in mind that he's played 7 games. The season is 24 games old. He has the rest of this year and then next year to go. He has never posted back-to-back good seasons where he has played more than 20 games (which is just a fancy way of my excluding his first year where he played 13). I would like nothing more than for Matt Murray to be hugely and routinely successful here - because like most people here, I'm a Leaf fan and it would be awesome.

But that trade - the acquisition of Matt Murray with 25% salary retention with a 3rd and a 7th for nothing - was still technically an overpayment. Dorion had said that he wasn't willing to retain more than he would have paid in a buyout. A buyout of Matt Murray ($15m remaining salary - no bonus money) @ 66.7% over twice the remainder of the contract (2 years remaining) is $2.5m per for 4 years. Ottawa is retaining $1.56m - but Dorion was probably willing to go up to $2m, if not more. Murray also reportedly was quite willing to sign with Toronto, so making them buy Murray out and then working out a 2 year deal with him on a show-me contract while Ottawa has to pay him $2.5m for 4 years would have also been favourable.

I said then that I didn't like the trade and what we're paying for Matt Murray, and I say that now - it's not how he's performing - it's what we should be paying him based on his value at the time of acquisition.
- Monkeypunk

Dubas clearly saw a connection between Murray then and the Murray he got. By the end of the year he was playing well in front of a pretty bad team and for a coaching staff that had given up on him. His numbers would have been better except for the fact that Smith refused to pull him in two games where he was being shelled.

Dubas got the goalie he wanted at a price he can afford plus a 3rd. He just a different value proposition than you did.

Fantastic.

I'm going to buy one, and have my mom sew it on my jean jacket, next to my Canada Fitness Award patch.


- Atomic Wedgie

I never got above Silver in anything, but also never got below bronze in anything either

Fantastic.

I'm going to buy one, and have my mom sew it on my jean jacket, next to my Canada Fitness Award patch.


- Atomic Wedgie

I got the excellence one, one year. I will never forget the Flexed Arm Hang. I couldn't straighten my arms for a few days after

I thought the excellence one had an extra piece on top with Maple Leafs or something on it?

Well that's the thing with rentals.

They are high cost/High risk moves.

If it pays off and you win, great. If it doesn't, you're left standing there looking like a fool.

Most of the time, it's the latter.
- Scabeh

Meier is the only big name rental I am interested in.

I'd imagine you could trade him at the draft and get some value back.

Are we sure there wasn't another team he was interested in playing for that were in those trade talks? Are we sure Sens were willing to go down that much?

its a lot of assuming. Murray probably would have been traded eventually over the offseason and goalie options are scarce after free agency, he had to make a decision.
- Santo_44

I will harken thee back, young Santo, to a time this summer when EVERYONE made fun of Kyle Dubas for the acquisition of Matt Murray. There wasn't a news pundit out there that didn't put the Leafs' goaltending last after they picked up Murray and Samsonov - and most of them credited the acquisition of Samsonov as a good move - which says a lot about the general opinion of Matt Murray.

I can't think of a single NHL executive who had positive things to say about Murray. But then I did think of the Athletic ranking of the goalie tiers, and this is what was posted:

https://theathletic.com/2...es-rates-all-32-starters/ -- I know you subscribe, so you can find that. It took me 10 f'n minutes to find it. Protip: don't use The Athletic search engine, it blows. I Googled it with the words Theathletic in front, and found it that way.

Anyway, Murray is ranked 29th in a poll of NHL executives, scouts, goalie coaches, and so on - and most of them had him falling. I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to pay him $4.7m without a much bigger payday than a 3rd and a 7th being the offset.

Bottom line - I am - without any proof or knowledge otherwise - all but positive that there was no competition for acquisition of Matt Murray's overpaid services.

Fantastic.

I'm going to buy one, and have my mom sew it on my jean jacket, next to my Canada Fitness Award patch.


- Atomic Wedgie

Oh poop I remember those. I would destroy that now.

I will harken thee back, young Santo, to a time this summer when EVERYONE made fun of Kyle Dubas for the acquisition of Matt Murray. There wasn't a news pundit out there that didn't put the Leafs' goaltending last after they picked up Murray and Samsonov - and most of them credited the acquisition of Samsonov as a good move - which says a lot about the general opinion of Matt Murray.

I can't think of a single NHL executive who had positive things to say about Murray. But then I did think of the Athletic ranking of the goalie tiers, and this is what was posted:

https://theathletic.com/2...es-rates-all-32-starters/ -- I know you subscribe, so you can find that. It took me 10 f'n minutes to find it. Protip: don't use The Athletic search engine, it blows. I Googled it with the words Theathletic in front, and found it that way.

Anyway, Murray is ranked 29th in a poll of NHL executives, scouts, goalie coaches, and so on - and most of them had him falling. I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to pay him $4.7m without a much bigger payday than a 3rd and a 7th being the offset.

Bottom line - I am - without any proof or knowledge otherwise - all but positive that there was no competition for acquisition of Matt Murray's overpaid services.
- Monkeypunk

I'm gonna have to agree with the monkey on this one. If there was any competition, it was most likely very little competition... especially with teams going after other goaltenders quite early on in the offseason.

So far, Murray (despite getting injured after only one game) has been mostly good for the Leafs..... but it's a long season to go before we can change the initial perception on this trade.

LEAAAAAAFFFFFFS
- Zezel

where's your friend?

anyone know where to get one of these?

https://www.nhl.com/maple...borje-salming/c-338166872

I will harken thee back, young Santo, to a time this summer when EVERYONE made fun of Kyle Dubas for the acquisition of Matt Murray. There wasn't a news pundit out there that didn't put the Leafs' goaltending last after they picked up Murray and Samsonov - and most of them credited the acquisition of Samsonov as a good move - which says a lot about the general opinion of Matt Murray.

I can't think of a single NHL executive who had positive things to say about Murray. But then I did think of the Athletic ranking of the goalie tiers, and this is what was posted:

https://theathletic.com/2...es-rates-all-32-starters/ -- I know you subscribe, so you can find that. It took me 10 f'n minutes to find it. Protip: don't use The Athletic search engine, it blows. I Googled it with the words Theathletic in front, and found it that way.

Anyway, Murray is ranked 29th in a poll of NHL executives, scouts, goalie coaches, and so on - and most of them had him falling. I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to pay him $4.7m without a much bigger payday than a 3rd and a 7th being the offset.

Bottom line - I am - without any proof or knowledge otherwise - all but positive that there was no competition for acquisition of Matt Murray's overpaid services.
- Monkeypunk

I do believe there was talk of another team interested in Murray too. It wasn't just the leafs. I mean Buffalo tried to make a deal for him too. Murray squashed it. So could there have been a third team? Likely.

Borje patch (but not sweaters it seems) being sold. Game worn jerseys for tomorrow’s game will be auctioned. All proceeds to go to ALS charity
- Canada Cup

trying to find the link to purchase one or two

Fantastic.

I'm going to buy one, and have my mom sew it on my jean jacket, next to my Canada Fitness Award patch.


- Atomic Wedgie

atta boy

where's your friend?
- TheMussel

If he went into those woods, you can forget about him.

I will harken thee back, young Santo, to a time this summer when EVERYONE made fun of Kyle Dubas for the acquisition of Matt Murray. There wasn't a news pundit out there that didn't put the Leafs' goaltending last after they picked up Murray and Samsonov - and most of them credited the acquisition of Samsonov as a good move - which says a lot about the general opinion of Matt Murray.

I can't think of a single NHL executive who had positive things to say about Murray. But then I did think of the Athletic ranking of the goalie tiers, and this is what was posted:

https://theathletic.com/2...es-rates-all-32-starters/ -- I know you subscribe, so you can find that. It took me 10 f'n minutes to find it. Protip: don't use The Athletic search engine, it blows. I Googled it with the words Theathletic in front, and found it that way.

Anyway, Murray is ranked 29th in a poll of NHL executives, scouts, goalie coaches, and so on - and most of them had him falling. I can't imagine ANYONE wanting to pay him $4.7m without a much bigger payday than a 3rd and a 7th being the offset.

Bottom line - I am - without any proof or knowledge otherwise - all but positive that there was no competition for acquisition of Matt Murray's overpaid services.
- Monkeypunk

While that is certainly possible Dubas was without a goalie days before free agency and had to make a decision. Maybe they were in on another goalie where said team or agent said the Leafs had to make a decision.

Dubas was confident, and I am sure in his mind he was getting a steal...which so far is correct.

I am sure they talked and I bet the poopty situation in OTT didnt help.

Lets not forget he knows DJ Smith very well...maybe he is known to be stubborn as (frank) and hold grudges on a player.

maybe Murray said trade me to the Leafs, and if you can't I will accept a trade to Buffalo.

I do believe there was talk of another team interested in Murray too. It wasn't just the leafs. I mean Buffalo tried to make a deal for him too. Murray squashed it. So could there have been a third team? Likely.
- Aaron_85

We may someday find out more details about this - but Murray did have a 10 team NTC, as you note - and Ottawa was up against it. The trade happened on July 11, 2022 and the NHL buyout period closed on July 12, 2022. Any trade they were going to make had to happen, and happen potentially with Murray's consent, in the next 24 hours. Otherwise he was going to get bought out, and then he could pick where he wanted to go - but on a personal note, he would have left money on the table to do so ($15m was owed on the deal he had over two years; a buyout would have reduced that to $10m over 4 years - and any contract he was going to get would certainly not have amounted to the $15m over two years, but would likely have surpassed that total $15m over the 4 years, if you know what I mean).

I sincerely have no information other than my opinion - but I thought Dorion was lying when he told Dubas that there were other interested parties, and I thought Dubas chose to believe him. My only reason is that I couldn't fathom why there would have been interest in Murray given his salary, his recent performance and his falling reputation.

Borje patch (but not sweaters it seems) being sold. Game worn jerseys for tomorrow’s game will be auctioned. All proceeds to go to ALS charity
- Canada Cup

Where are the patches for sale, I’d love to grab some 🙏🏻

While that is certainly possible Dubas was without a goalie days before free agency and had to make a decision. Maybe they were in on another goalie where said team or agent said the Leafs had to make a decision.

Dubas was confident, and I am sure in his mind he was getting a steal...which so far is correct.

I am sure they talked and I bet the poopty situation in OTT didnt help.

Lets not forget he knows DJ Smith very well...maybe he is known to be stubborn as (frank) and hold grudges on a player.

maybe Murray said trade me to the Leafs, and if you can't I will accept a trade to Buffalo.
- Santo_44

Yeah - that's also plausible. Let's face it - hockey is a relationship business as well. Who you know isn't just incidental in terms of making decisions (it's VERY obvious with Dubas). It may not have looked good from yesterday, but I probably would have liked to pursue Husso - but I fully admit that it has that same uncertainty we had with Cambpell - does a 27 year old suddenly appear and be THE guy? There's only a handful in history who fit that description.

If only the Leafs had a store where they could sell stuff.

I never got above Silver in anything, but also never got below bronze in anything either
- TheMussel

I would always get gold - would get the marks for Award of Excellence in all categories - except the 100 meter dash. I do not have a single fast-twitch muscle fibre in my entire body (don't ask me how, but I was always good at the shuttle run).

Then one year my parents took me and my brother to the Ex. They had an area where you could do the test to earn your badge - but due to space constraints, THERE WAS NO 100 METER DASH!!!!!!!!!!

I got my one and only Award of Excellence - still one of my proudest sporting moments.

I got the excellence one, one year. I will never forget the Flexed Arm Hang. I couldn't straighten my arms for a few days after

I thought the excellence one had an extra piece on top with Maple Leafs or something on it?
- Aetherial

It probably changed over the years.

I found this on the innerwebs: