When did he say that?
- Tomahawk

Yesterday's presser, 5:30 mark

The only clown in this forum is you! I did say that it will be interesting to see how RR performs with a real coach, but I never said he was great or would be great. As it turned out, RR never got the chance to be coached by AV, and Yeo was in over his head right from the start, so this is really the first time since he is a Flyer that Risto is going to have real demands made of him, and I am again interested in how he responds.
- jd250

you must be a historian -- albeit not a good one though - you try to change your opinions to fit the current state instead of just manning up and admitting you were wrong

I guess +/- is not a metric you care about?
- jd250

He's on a team that's only managed to score 8 ES goals in 6 games while giving up 21. They have the 3rd-worst ES SV% in the league.

There's literally only one player with a + rating on that team (Josh Brown, +1).

Fletcher's fleshlight is back again with another comically bad defense of a terrible trade. Zero hindsight was required to know that giving up a 2nd rounder (which ended up being 65th overall) to move Ghost was stupid. The real malcontent was AV, who had to be fired six weeks into last season.
- Feanor

Phucknuts there is no defense of chuck in any way. That is a false narrative you are trying to push. so keep spinning.

Ghost time here had expired. He was not good his last couple years. He was a malcontent going back prior to AV. He had zero value across the league. That is 100% fact. A 2nd was the cost when you look at other similar deals.

Omg

you must be a historian -- albeit not a good one though - you try to change your opinions to fit the current state instead of just manning up and admitting you were wrong
- corduroy

No, I just correct clowns like you who try to put words in my mouth!

I guess +/- is not a metric you care about?
- jd250

That's a dinosaur metric. Its fallen way out of favor in discussion.

New (monster) blob.

Meanwhile it's Noah Cates who has lost his center spot 6 games into the season because he couldn't hack it down the middle.
- Feanor

Frostsky rules.

so the Cates at center experiment didn't work. nah he lost his job. anyway to try to pump up frostsky is entertaining.

chuckles could not have traded for rr with ghost still on the roster -- he had to dump money to be able to fit rr under the cap -- so it really is all tied together
- corduroy

that's your take which is fine. I view it separately. either way RR was a bad move. 2x a bad move

I agree that the Ghost trade was a panic move and done completely to placate AV. I also agree the RR trade turned out to be a bad one for the Flyers. But I like TD and so far I am glad the Flyers got him. I would rather have TD than Ghost if I had to choose.
- jd250

moving ghost was not a panic move. they had bene trying to move him for a very long time.

Yesterday's presser, 5:30 mark
- jd250

Torts not knowing Zamula's first name is classic.

That's a dinosaur metric. Its fallen way out of favor in discussion.
- PT21

I mean, it's fine as long as it's given in some kind of team context and not just used as lazy shorthand for defensive ability.

Being a minus on a nakedly tanking team is different than being a minus for the Jacques Lemaire Devils.

moving ghost was not a panic move. they had bene trying to move him for a very long time.
- hello it's me 2050

I'm not sure about this. I think Ghost and AV clashed, both in style of play and Ghost's public statements about the comments AV made about Hart. Also factor in Fletcher was in love with Risto, and I believe these were the reasons Ghost was moved.

I mean, it's fine as long as it's given in some kind of team context and not just used as lazy shorthand for defensive ability.

Being a minus on a nakedly tanking team is different than being a minus for the Jacques Lemaire Devils.
- Tomahawk

Look over Ghost's career, he has been a minus player. Even in his best year with the Flyers where he scored over 60 points, he was a significantly minus player. To me Ghost is a player similar to Yandle or Shattenkirk, he will get you points but the trade off is poor defense.

I'm not sure about this. I think Ghost and AV clashed, both in style of play and Ghost's public statements about the comments AV made about Hart. Also factor in Fletcher was in love with Risto, and I believe these were the reasons Ghost was moved.
- jd250

a panic move is on the fly. they tried to move ghost for a very long time. that isnt a a panic move. he was on waivers as well.

Look over Ghost's career, he has been a minus player. Even in his best year with the Flyers where he scored over 60 points, he was a significantly minus player. To me Ghost is a player similar to Yandle or Shattenkirk, he will get you points but the trade off is poor defense.
- jd250

Look the Flyers team +/- over Ghosts' career. They haven't exactly been a strong ES team during that stretch.

He's not the greatest defensive player, but he's not some black hole either.

Look the Flyers team +/- over Ghosts' career. They haven't exactly been a strong ES team during that stretch.

He's not the greatest defensive player, but he's not some black hole either.
- Tomahawk

I never said he was a black hole. Where Yandle or Shattenkirk black holes at a similar age?

Look over Ghost's career, he has been a minus player. Even in his best year with the Flyers where he scored over 60 points, he was a significantly minus player. To me Ghost is a player similar to Yandle or Shattenkirk, he will get you points but the trade off is poor defense.
- jd250

He was + 10 that season clown

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/pl...tisbehere?player_id=64682

That's right, multiple people on this forum, scouts and 3 head coaches are all ignorant. Apparently only you and Hexy see Frost differently! What a joke!
- jd250

This is not only inaccurate but also pretty stupid.

Really? Why? Why is it that Torts has to resort to playing a grunt like Mac 16+ minutes a game including key minutes in 3rd periods just to send a message to the rest of the team? What does that say about the players on this team? The bottom line is the makeup of this team is very, very poor. Cam Atkinson called it a country club last year. The same complaints from Tort's you hear now last year from Yeo and the previous years from AV. So you want Torts to ignore this and just move on to another lost season where no accountability is infused into the culture? Sorry, I say play Mac and ND on the top line and sit more players if you have to, I'd rather watch a team with players that try versus players that coast. And your guy Frosty is the first player I would sit, talk about coasters!
- jd250

Your illusion that other players on the team aren't trying is idiotic. Your Frost comments are juvenile.

Frost absolutely is a tweener, and IMO will be an AHL player for the most part. He does not have size, so he is not physical. That is OK if he has the speed and can play the game as fast as a player like Johhny G, but Frost is no where close. Frost is not a finisher, we clearly see that. We also see Frost is not good on faceoffs. So you have a small player with average speed, good skill, who can't finish, doesn't hit, is poor on faceoffs and has a problem with consistency away from the puck. I mean, this is what he is .. I am not making this up.
- jd250

I am not making this up!


Only in your ridiculous and absurd world is a young player what he is after 83 NHL games.

The only clown in this forum is you! I did say that it will be interesting to see how RR performs with a real coach, but I never said he was great or would be great. As it turned out, RR never got the chance to be coached by AV, and Yeo was in over his head right from the start, so this is really the first time since he is a Flyer that Risto is going to have real demands made of him, and I am again interested in how he responds.
- jd250

As far as clown's go. You still hold out hope for Ristolainen who has played 9 NHL seasons that he will get better coaching and improve. However, Frost, after 83 games, is what he is and won't get better.

Look over Ghost's career, he has been a minus player. Even in his best year with the Flyers where he scored over 60 points, he was a significantly minus player. To me Ghost is a player similar to Yandle or Shattenkirk, he will get you points but the trade off is poor defense.
- jd250

You're a fact based person.


Gostisbehere was a +10 in the season where he scored 65 points.

I never said he was a black hole. Where Yandle or Shattenkirk black holes at a similar age?
- jd250

No.

So I guess to answer your original question, in Ghosts 2022-23's case, I don't think plus/minus is that important to his evaluation.

I mean, it's fine as long as it's given in some kind of team context and not just used as lazy shorthand for defensive ability.

Being a minus on a nakedly tanking team is different than being a minus for the Jacques Lemaire Devils.
- Tomahawk

It has just become subsumed by easily available stats that not just convey the same info but a lot more.

It has just become subsumed by easily available stats that not just convey the same info but a lot more.
- PT21

You know our resident boomers are averse to change.