I defend him because he is 2nd all time in franchise history in assists. 2nd all time in franchise history in points. All time franchise leader in PP points. A 3 time top 5 vote getter in Hart trophy voting and one of the best players in franchise history.

The team's failures were not due to Claude Giroux. The faliures are due to management and failing to build the team around him well enough

The fact that you ask why I defend him is not really surprising and is just another mark on your posting history.
- MJL

Yes, Yes .. he has stats .. but what did he ever win? And more importantly, as the player wearing he 'C' what type of culture or identity did this team develop over his time here? I agree that Hextall failed to ice a top team with top coaching around him, but G deserves some blame here also. And who can honestly defend his exit from the Flyers?

BTW, serious question. Why do you defend Giroux so much? I mean, he was a very good player for the Flyers but under his watch this team spiraled downward, and the way it ended where he tied Fletcher's hands, I have no respect for this guy what-so-ever. Why do you still defend him?
- jd250

Flyers Buzz immediately labeled TK the #1 Torts doghouse candidate. Nice job as always folks
- ClaudeFather

Hang on. I think a lot of people were off about their predictions, so I don’t think anyone is in a position to throw stones. Mind you I fully expect to go winless the next two games, I think many have written this team off the pasted 4 to 5 months as unwatchable. You included.

“I think it’s funny many believe this team won’t be that bad”. Well those people after two games are right.

I absolutely see him moving Cates to 4c to create that "identity line' he wants and has mentioned on more than a few occasions. It would add the skill he wants and give him another option.
- MBFlyerfan

Don’t see it as he is playing 19 minutes a night. Though early. Putting him on the 4th line will decrease that dramatically. Not sure that is the route he wants to go. He is already on the PK and PP. So how much is that area really going to increase?

Add in Nic D and his 8 minutes it doesn’t make sense. Plus ND kills the offense of whoever else is on that line.

Frost isn't going anywhere. Cates will be moved back to wing where he belongs.
- MBFlyerfan

I’m with you. Based on what I’ve seen of Cates so far, I much prefer him at wing. I really liked his forcheck and ability to play high. I don’t know where putting him at center came from. As for Laughton, right or wrong on my part, he’s looks like a poor man’s Mike Richards to be. Obviously not as talented but he gets the job done.

Damn, disappointing to hear. Was looking forward to seeing how it ends but now I probably won't bother. I've been trying to find some new horror movies to watch this year, just saw Trick R treat for the first time and enjoyed it. Also, Midsommar, not traditional horror, but man what an unsettling movie.
- TobyFlenderson

trick r treat is campy as hell by design but is one of my all time favorites because of its level of self awareness. i rewatch every year for sure.

thats a good take on midsommar. have you watched hereditary? not directly related in any fashion but I believe by the same guy.

Don’t see it as he is playing 19 minutes a night. Though early. Putting him on the 4th line will decrease that dramatically. Not sure that is the route he wants to go. He is already on the PK and PP. So how much is that area really going to increase?

Add in Nic D and his 8 minutes it doesn’t make sense. Plus ND kills the offense of whoever else is on that line.
- furio16

Right. Tanner goes to 4c. Jackson down once tippet and coots are healthy.

Yes, Yes .. he has stats .. but what did he ever win? And more importantly, as the player wearing he 'C' what type of culture or identity did this team develop over his time here? I agree that Hextall failed to ice a top team with top coaching around him, but G deserves some blame here also. And who can honestly defend his exit from the Flyers?
- jd250

You do not seem to comprehend that a player owes a team nothing when it comes to waiving a NMC/NTC. The player has rights that have been collectively bargained. He did not do anything wrong - stop blaming him

Don’t see it as he is playing 19 minutes a night. Though early. Putting him on the 4th line will decrease that dramatically. Not sure that is the route he wants to go. He is already on the PK and PP. So how much is that area really going to increase?

Add in Nic D and his 8 minutes it doesn’t make sense. Plus ND kills the offense of whoever else is on that line.
- furio16

But...but... but him hit good

I'm glad the fanbase is starting to appreciate TK again.

Whenever I see other team's fans discussing possible trade scenarios w/ the Flyers, it was always TK that they wanted. One of our few guys with skill and a fair cap hit.

I stopped haloween ends maybe 30 minutes in due to it being a little over the top, is it worth watching the rest?
- ClaudeFather

I got two words for ya - Evil Dies Tonight!

29th overall
- Scoob

Thank you sir, but 1 poster? I have never met a larger group of folks so generous with opinions and yet so skittish when it comes to putting it on the record, even with nothing at stake.

Here's my off the cuff prediction:

Standings: 8th from last (25th).
Hart sv % (0.914)
GM for 23-24: CF
Coach for 23-24: Torts
Season attendance percentage: 95%

Does PT21 have a rule about being condescending towards another poster? :-)

There is no doubt that Tort's is setting a tone here, but I don't believe under AV or Yeo that their intention was to have a country club, and even if it were true professional athletes would never allow it. That is where the player wearing the 'C' comes in.
- jd250

Eh?

And why did you quote your own post in bringing this non-sequitur up? You are being condescending towards yourself? Where is the condescension?

Who are their top 3 centers currently
- ClaudeFather

Beniers, Wennberg, Gourde

Tortorella is driving that bus and seems committed to it. I understand way. He can handle a center's responsibilities. My concern is this: One of the main strengths of his game is that he an excellent F1 on the forecheck. As a center, you're never the F1, and you're usually the last forward to leave the D zone. In terms of structure, though, and helping in every zone, I see why they did it when they are so thin at center and prefer Laughton on wing to C.
- bmeltzer

AH Bill, I am surprised to see you make such a bad analytical mistake. What you say is consistent with common sense and empirical evidence, but a legendary poster couple of weeks back made an acute insight which disproves you.

Let me see if I can find it.

I thought of this too, but does Tort's really want to limit Cates to 10-12 minutes per night? Right now Cates is playing almost 20 minutes per night, almost 5 full minutes more than Frost, though only 2 games so far.
- jd250

Cates for a new coach is perfect to call out, works hard and is young, he is a good example, will that last all season? No? You are reading what Torts is saying and thinking it will not change. It will be up to Frost and Cates how much ice time they will get and where they play.

BTW, don't waste your time with Halloween Ends, a very disappointing conclusion to what was shaping up to be a very good trilogy.
- jd250

I had never heard of it. Had to search.

I'm glad the fanbase is starting to appreciate TK again.

Whenever I see other team's fans discussing possible trade scenarios w/ the Flyers, it was always TK that they wanted. One of our few guys with skill and a fair cap hit.
- Tomahawk

No shxt, always, lets give up on the guy who is best suited for todays game

PK
- jd250

Frost doesn't play on the PK so that is a big part of it. What might happen to Cates ice time when Couturier and Atkinson come back? How about game situations? Does that come into play?

I’m with you. Based on what I’ve seen of Cates so far, I much prefer him at wing. I really liked his forcheck and ability to play high. I don’t know where putting him at center came from. As for Laughton, right or wrong on my part, he’s looks like a poor man’s Mike Richards to be. Obviously not as talented but he gets the job done.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree, I like him on the wing but lets see what value he brings vs two good teams. It could be there is more value in him shutting down or playing well against teams top lines.

I defend him because he is 2nd all time in franchise history in assists. 2nd all time in franchise history in points. All time franchise leader in PP points. A 3 time top 5 vote getter in Hart trophy voting and one of the best players in franchise history.

The team's failures were not due to Claude Giroux. The faliures are due to management and failing to build the team around him well enough

The fact that you ask why I defend him is not really surprising and is just another mark on your posting history.
- MJL

Yet you defend Saint Ronnie wo ruined his career while in a Flyers uniform. He has to take the majority of the blame don't you think?

Yes, Yes .. he has stats .. but what did he ever win? And more importantly, as the player wearing he 'C' what type of culture or identity did this team develop over his time here? I agree that Hextall failed to ice a top team with top coaching around him, but G deserves some blame here also. And who can honestly defend his exit from the Flyers?
- jd250

How many teams was he on here that were capable of winning? Or is that Giroux's fault?. It was only during Hextall's time that they didn't ice a top team? Who can honestly criticize his exit?

I would normally say I'm shocked by statements you made but in this case. Not really

How many teams was he on here that were capable of winning? Or is that Giroux's faulr. It was only during Hextall's time that they didn't ice a top team? Who can honestly criticize his exit?
- MJL

Giroux had a couple of MVP caliber season in 13-14 and 17-18, and if you look at the team around him, they had no chance of actually winning a Cup.

Giroux had a couple of MVP caliber season in 13-14 and 17-18, and if you look at the team around him, they had no chance of actually winning a Cup.
- Feanor

No doubt but according to some, that was due to Giroux's poor leadership.

A real leader would have made Andrew MacDonald a good dman.