I would focus on players that should go, rather than players who could go. JvR has to go. I don’t understand why Cam Atkinson wouldn’t chase a cup somewhere else. I’d hold meetings with Hayes and Laughton. Let’s say we do win the left lottery this coming June. Do we want a player like Connor Bedard to have zero support?

Both should very easily bring back 2 quality assets (probably a salary dump as well) including a 1st rd pick. The question is will that pick be in 2023?
- furio16

Honestly does the year matter at this point? We’re talking multiple years here. We’re already guaranteed a high pick this year.
Just for poops and giggled say they moved provy sanheim tk for 3 1st round picks. Just that. Add theirs that they have plus the Florida 1st. That at least 6 1st round picks presumably in the next 2 drafts. Add that to forester York bee cutter and you have a start at rebuild. That’s roughly 10 players to at least form something.

Obviously (frank)head Chuck cant be anywhere near this because we know ow that ends.

I should have added Brink to the list of players Fletcher has drafted and Noah Cates to players Hextall drafted. The problem has not been the drafting, the problem has been where the Flyers have been drafting and their player development. In the end you are not going to get top end talent drafting in the mid to late first rounds, and then trading away your second and 3rd round picks. We will see how Gauthier plays this year at BC, he is a top 5 pick so I am looking forward to him playing this year. But really, for the Flyers to truly move forward, they must pick in the top 3 in this year's draft IMO, and get that franchise player you can build around. Of course, then next off-season we can look forward to Tort's sending that player down to Lappy for an attitude adjustment :-)
- jd250

The problem is both drafting and developing. Not just one or the other.

Ottawa might be a good trade partner for Sanheim. They need D help, Sanheim for Pinto and a first.
- ClaudeFather

That would be a fleece that Chuck couldn’t never make. Pinto gonna be good. Highly doubt you get a first plus that high a prospect for sanheim. Maybe provy maybe if they still value his draft status

I would focus on players that should go, rather than players who could go. JvR has to go. I don’t understand why Cam Atkinson wouldn’t chase a cup somewhere else. I’d hold meetings with Hayes and Laughton. Let’s say we do win the left lottery this coming June. Do we want a player like Connor Bedard to have zero support?
- SuperSchennBros

What would you then say to each player?

I don’t think they would be a world of difference but maybe high 30s / low 40s. I don’t see him as a PP guy, especially on a good team. But he’s a good player, and would help any team.
- ClaudeFather

could be right, I think of him with the Oilers and he would be real happy

What would you then say to each player?
- furio16

Would you consider being moved…

I would focus on players that should go, rather than players who could go. JvR has to go. I don’t understand why Cam Atkinson wouldn’t chase a cup somewhere else. I’d hold meetings with Hayes and Laughton. Let’s say we do win the left lottery this coming June. Do we want a player like Connor Bedard to have zero support?
- SuperSchennBros

Yes yes we do. If you can get bedard you have cutter. Plus can build later. You don’t get a bedard if you have all these pieces to support him. You’d be too good to even get him to begin with

That would be a fleece that Chuck couldn’t never make. Pinto gonna be good. Highly doubt you get a first plus that high a prospect for sanheim. Maybe provy maybe if they still value his draft status
- SMS4016

Make the deal now! G Pinto and Debrincat might be the best PP in the league, cost is going up

Would you consider being moved…
- SuperSchennBros

Cam has 3 years left on his deal. How attractive is that to other teams? He is a case of diminishing returns.

Hayes can’t be moved unless you retain and give up quality assets. Hayes has a modified NTC. No

Probably a small market for Laughton. He also has 4 years which may not be that attractive to team. He is the easier one to move. He does not have a NTC so no meeting needed.

The kids are going to play. Now we know he didn't necessarily mean for the Flyers.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this franchise holds back it's young players like no other.
- backfire

Maybe the young players in question should actually play well and earn their spot. i want the kids to play too but i want them to actually earn the spot not get handed a spot. i think York will be fine long run but he has not been good in the games he has played. can't speak for the practices but if he was sent down i would imagine not well enough there either

Very true, however York is a great example of a talented and skilled player that currently is not playing with the right mindset. I'm sure you have observed teams with immense talent that never won anything, I know I have. So I think its important to build the foundation of accountability, and then as you add and develop high end talent, they play the game with the right mindset.
- jd250

The Flyers are trying to paint this mirage that among the player they have a accountability and locker room issue. Their issues are caused by a lack of talent. That and an incompetent management and past incompetent coaching. The only thing they can try and sell to the fans is this conditioning and hard to play against mantra. Teams that defend all the time are not hard to play against. No matter how physical or how well conditioned they are.

The question of 'rightness of opinion' is a different one.

You asked him essentially, why he believed Sanheim should be the one to be traded, and he had just said why in the very post you quoted.
- PT21

This seems like a violation or your rule #3 on the standards of debate

"3. Give the debater the benefit of doubt and address the larger issue. Stop trying to score cheap points like repeatedly bringing up irrelevant things. "

Maybe the young players in question should actually play well and earn their spot. i want the kids to play too but i want them to actually earn the spot not get handed a spot. i think York will be fine long run but he has not been good in the games he has played. can't speak for the practices but if he was sent down i would imagine not well enough there either
- nastyflyergirl14

The thing to me is that the 30 games that York played last year should also factor in. I want what is best for the player. What is best for his development? The fact that we look at quotes from different coaches saying different things about a player tells me that there is dysfunction. Perhaps there is confusion on the player and it's gotten in his head. Why was he a player that looked like he belonged last season in 30 games and this pre season, looks like he needs to go down? What happened? That's the bigger question that needs answering.

"We couldn't drop Ristolainen because of his 5.1 mill salary. Even i agree York doesn't look worse based on my blurry eyetest."

Chuck

Cam has 3 years left on his deal. How attractive is that to other teams? He is a case of diminishing returns.

Hayes can’t be moved unless you retain and give up quality assets. Hayes has a modified NTC. No

Probably a small market for Laughton. He also has 4 years which may not be that attractive to team. He is the easier one to move. He does not have a NTC so no meeting needed.
- furio16

You might be right but it doesn’t mean you don’t have the conversation with these players.

Maybe the young players in question should actually play well and earn their spot. i want the kids to play too but i want them to actually earn the spot not get handed a spot. i think York will be fine long run but he has not been good in the games he has played. can't speak for the practices but if he was sent down i would imagine not well enough there either
- nastyflyergirl14

Has Seeler or KC earned their spot?

The thing to me is that the 30 games that York played last year should also factor in. I want what is best for the player. What is best for his development? The fact that we look at quotes from different coaches saying different things about a player tells me that there is dysfunction. Perhaps there is confusion on the player and it's gotten in his head. Why was he a player that looked like he belonged last season in 30 games and this pre season, looks like he needs to go down? What happened? That's the bigger question that needs answering.
- MJL

While there is definite dysfunction, the player should be listening to one coach only. That is Torts. Anything anyone else tells him he should be smart enough to ignore if it differs than the message Torts gave him.

You might be right but it doesn’t mean you don’t have the conversation with these players.
- SuperSchennBros

No need to have a conversation imo.

No need to have a conversation imo.
- furio16

No need, you’re taking big money back in every situation. Maybe not Laughton but it’s still a difficult move for the term.

What is the deal with Anisimov, is he just expected to be on the team? PTO injured guy just hanging around

Kjell Samuelsson’s School of Mediocre Development has another graduate I see.

The thing to me is that the 30 games that York played last year should also factor in. I want what is best for the player. What is best for his development? The fact that we look at quotes from different coaches saying different things about a player tells me that there is dysfunction. Perhaps there is confusion on the player and it's gotten in his head. Why was he a player that looked like he belonged last season in 30 games and this pre season, looks like he needs to go down? What happened? That's the bigger question that needs answering.
- MJL

pretty much said the same thing the other day, and still believe it, only caveat is Torts, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, based upon his track record. Easy to paint him with the same dysfunctional brush we paint the organization with.

pretty much said the same thing the other day, and still believe it, only caveat is Torts, I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, based upon his track record. Easy to paint him with the same dysfunctional brush we paint the organization with.
- wcorvette

Is his track record all that great? does a cup what 16 years ago really hold that much water in 2022?

No need to have a conversation imo.
- furio16

This is a bad team in need of a rebuild, why wouldn’t you have these conversations?