When all is said and done, Mac will be considered one of the best players of his generation. His last five seasons have been straight up dominant. He's a much stronger defensive player than OV. Plus, he's a centerman. And the intangibles... he elevates his teammates on and off the ice.

And Crosby isn't even top-5 of all time, so how is OV?
- Tomahawk

Id take McDavid and matthews before mackinnon. Maybe even Draisaitl. So the 3rd or 4th best player at his position during the past couple years is better than the greatest goal scorer in nhl history?

Wayne, Mario, Orr and Howe are pretty much undisputed at the top. And OV has never been considered better than Sid in his career... so who gets booted to make room for OV? (Assuming Sid is #5 here, which I personally don't think he is)

It's even debatable whether or not he was the greatest goal scorer. Bossy and Mario have a much higher career goals/g than OV, but they just didn't manage the same longevity.
- Tomahawk

Mike Bossy was the best true sniper of all time in my opinion ( of course I really don't remember Howe and Orr). I also believe that Mario would be right there with Wayno with career points if he had stayed healthy. That dude just had silky hands. FIRE CHUCK!

With York and Foerster going down to the Phantoms, the public message is we need to get better defensively and the these players need more work. The private message is this team is a train wreck, and I would rather just play out the season with Seeler and Conaughton defending and helping us get a top 3 pick, and let the kids grow this season on the Phantoms.

I’m not gonna back read too far but gonna throw my 2 cents in. Anyone taking Big Mac over Ov is mjlcrazy Ov is possibly top 5 all time player.
- SMS4016

rather be mjl crazy than smsclueless

Ovechkin isn't top 5 all time? Barring injury, he's going to pass Howe all time in goals this season. Becoming only the 3rd player in NHL history to score over 800 goals. If he stays healthy and plays long enough, he could pass Gretzky. He just scored 50 goals at 36. In 3 years time, we could be looking at the all time NHL goal scorer.
- MJL

Still isnt a top 5 of all-time

Isn't being able to score goals at a high level, including 50 at age 36 over a long period of time part of being a great goal scorer? Should Ovechkin's longevity be held against him? Longevity was huge part for Howe but not for Ovechkin?
- MJL

I'm not holding it against him so much as I'm pointing out that Mario and Bossy were probably just as fantastic (I personally feel like Mario was the greatest goal scorer of all time).

Id take Sergi Fedorov over Ovi

Yes but Lappy's comments were contradictory on what they wanted from York. I agree on the last comment.
- MJL

When Lappy was interviewed on Flyers daily he mentioned that some coaches want complete alignment between the AHL and NHL teams, for example AV was such a coach. However he also stated Torts told him to do whatever he wants to win, that Lappy has to win down there and Torts has to win in the NHL. I thought at the time this was a bad idea and not something I would agree to if I were GM, and now we are seeing the fallout to such a system:

Lappy: So I think the management and myself are looking for him to play a simple game, make that play and most of the times, he'll make a nice pass."

Torts: I think with some of his ability, he could be a breakout for us. Just get the puck and go. I don't want him just slapping the puck away and getting rid of the puck.

How can you develop players like this? I don't blame Lappy or Torts, I blame Fletcher because to me he has got to set the tone for what he wants in the organization.

Still isnt a top 5 of all-time
- THE BLACK HAND

Ovi is probably top 10 (longevity certainly matters), but not top 5. At the very least, I’d rate these guys ahead of him:
Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Doug Harvey

After that, for me, it’s a fight between Howie Morenz, Rocket Richard, Jean Beliveau, Mike Bossy, and Ovi for the next few spots

When Lappy was interviewed on Flyers daily he mentioned that some coaches want complete alignment between the AHL and NHL teams, for example AV was such a coach. However he also stated Torts told him to do whatever he wants to win, that Lappy has to win down there and Torts has to win in the NHL. I thought at the time this was a bad idea and not something I would agree to if I were GM, and now we are seeing the fallout to such a system:

Lappy: So I think the management and myself are looking for him to play a simple game, make that play and most of the times, he'll make a nice pass."

Torts: I think with some of his ability, he could be a breakout for us. Just get the puck and go. I don't want him just slapping the puck away and getting rid of the puck.

How can you develop players like this? I don't blame Lappy or Torts, I blame Fletcher because to me he has got to set the tone for what he wants in the organization.
- jd250

Agreed, and it’s one of multitude of reasons why Fletcher and his team need to go.

Id take McDavid and matthews before mackinnon. Maybe even Draisaitl. So the 3rd or 4th best player at his position during the past couple years is better than the greatest goal scorer in nhl history?
- Shrike

If I'm just going by accolades, rep and star power, I'd take OV.

But if I'm building from scratch, want to instill a culture, aim for a dynasty, I'm taking Mac all the way. He plays defense, he pushes his teammates, he does all the little things that OV doesn't do.

With York and Foerster going down to the Phantoms, the public message is we need to get better defensively and the these players need more work. The private message is this team is a train wreck, and I would rather just play out the season with Seeler and Conaughton defending and helping us get a top 3 pick, and let the kids grow this season on the Phantoms.
- jd250

You actually believe this scenario? If that was the case you do not sign TD and ND

I'd pick Nate, because his leadership and dedication are (frank)ing legendary, he sets the tone for that entire franchise:



(Zadorov wrote that)
- Tomahawk

My thoughts also

Ovi is probably top 10 (longevity certainly matters), but not top 5. At the very least, I’d rate these guys ahead of him:
Gretzky
Orr
Lemieux
Howe
Doug Harvey

After that, for me, it’s a fight between Howie Morenz, Rocket Richard, Jean Beliveau, Mike Bossy, and Ovi for the next few spots
- BiggE

Need to slip Hasek and Roy in there somewhere.

Need to slip Hasek and Roy in there somewhere.
- Tomahawk

Nic Lindstrom
Ray Bourque

Nic Lindstrom
Ray Bourque
- THE BLACK HAND

Oh (frank) yeah lol... those two. Lidstrom I'd take over OV.

I'm not holding it against him so much as I'm pointing out that Mario and Bossy were probably just as fantastic (I personally feel like Mario was the greatest goal scorer of all time).
- Tomahawk

He certainly made it look the easiest.

If I'm just going by accolades, rep and star power, I'd take OV.

But if I'm building from scratch, want to instill a culture, aim for a dynasty, I'm taking Mac all the way. He plays defense, he pushes his teammates, he does all the little things that OV doesn't do.
- Tomahawk

If we’re talking about drafting age for Mac and Ovi, i personally still take Ovi. True snipers are the rarest player types in the NHL. Bergeron, Couts, Barkov, Kopitar, Giroux even Ryan O’Reilly. It easier to find a complete center than a top 3 all time if he’s not the greatest sniper ever.

With York and Foerster going down to the Phantoms, the public message is we need to get better defensively and the these players need more work. The private message is this team is a train wreck, and I would rather just play out the season with Seeler and Conaughton defending and helping us get a top 3 pick, and let the kids grow this season on the Phantoms.
- jd250

The decisions to send Foerster and York were individual player decisions and not decisions based on the team getting better defensively. I expect York to be back up with the team soon.

I'm not holding it against him so much as I'm pointing out that Mario and Bossy were probably just as fantastic (I personally feel like Mario was the greatest goal scorer of all time).
- Tomahawk

If Ovechkin winds up as the all time NHL goal scorer, then he is top 5 all time. Scoring goals at a high level for a long time is a big part of it.

I'm not holding it against him so much as I'm pointing out that Mario and Bossy were probably just as fantastic (I personally feel like Mario was the greatest goal scorer of all time).
- Tomahawk

Bossy was just flat out ridiculous.

When Lappy was interviewed on Flyers daily he mentioned that some coaches want complete alignment between the AHL and NHL teams, for example AV was such a coach. However he also stated Torts told him to do whatever he wants to win, that Lappy has to win down there and Torts has to win in the NHL. I thought at the time this was a bad idea and not something I would agree to if I were GM, and now we are seeing the fallout to such a system:

Lappy: So I think the management and myself are looking for him to play a simple game, make that play and most of the times, he'll make a nice pass."

Torts: I think with some of his ability, he could be a breakout for us. Just get the puck and go. I don't want him just slapping the puck away and getting rid of the puck.

How can you develop players like this? I don't blame Lappy or Torts, I blame Fletcher because to me he has got to set the tone for what he wants in the organization.
- jd250

The two coach’s and the whole organization need to get on the same page with York, so the kid knows exactly what’s expected. We can only hope that behind closed doors the message’s from everyone involved are the same bloody message. A little disappointed but the truth is the kid played poorly. No doubt he’s a talented kid, we saw that last year, hopefully he’s back up here very shortly with a chip on his shoulder….that’s what Torts strives for.

If Ovechkin winds up as the all time NHL goal scorer, then he is top 5 all time. Scoring goals at a high level for a long time is a big part of it.
- MJL

nope

nope
- THE BLACK HAND

Well said

If we’re talking about drafting age for Mac and Ovi, i personally still take Ovi. True snipers are the rarest player types in the NHL. Bergeron, Couts, Barkov, Kopitar, Giroux even Ryan O’Reilly. It easier to find a complete center than a top 3 all time if he’s not the greatest sniper ever.
- Shrike

Agreed…it’s Ovi today with the overall body of work and longevity. But that’s not to say Mac will catch and surpass him. Easier said then done. To me that’s why Bossy isn’t top 10. It’s very tough to stay healthy and preform at that level for a long time. Longevity matters.