Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Sep 17 @ 9:53 PM ET
I agree he’s probably worth more than a 4th - but your assessment of him as a dman is not on point.
He will never be Rielly lite. In fact saying a player is another and adding ‘lite’ is nonsensical.
He is undersized and slow. Bad combo…that was a good hit that one time though for sure.
He’s awful in his own zone thinking/positioning off cycle plays. Loses him man in coverage constantly. He defends well off the rush.
He’s not a good first pass dman at all yet. In fact it’s one of his weaker parts of his game that makes him unreliable. Very Jake Gardiner. Gardiner lite? He makes poor decisions with the puck still. Can he get better - absolutely. Is he likely to get better - absolutely.
His development is not where it should be at this point. Who knows why - could be injuries but regardless he’s a bit behind for a dman that was drafters 1st rd. He would not have been a regular at all last season regardless of injury. When healthy Keefe say him multiple times.
He has offensive upside for sure. There’s no doubt that will be his bread and jam. Rielly was never that bad defensively.
I too would bet that you’re right and he has a good chance of putting up 30-40pts a season as a dman down the road. Problem is Leafs are win now. They’ve failed in this for 3 years in my opinion. Losing him as a young dman isn’t ideal but he is behind Liljegren in my opinion and he’s a left shot dman. Switching a young player to his off side when he already has reading and reacting issues is not a smart move. - Big23Questions
I really think everybody just accepts easy cliches about players - Lilligren good but Sandin bad defensively. I don’t think there’s much difference in their defensive play except one got to play with Gio which helped steady his game. They’re both pretty good with their stick but neither is particularly good in front of the net. Sandin is better in the PP, Lilli on the PK.
I don’t think signing Gio for $800k or giving Muzzin a NTC means they don’t want to keep Sandin anymore than giving one to Holl meant they didn’t want to keep Lilligren.
Location: All Ontario Scientist (Masters Level III) Joined: 04.11.2018
Sep 17 @ 10:00 PM ET
I really think everybody just accepts easy cliches about players - Lilligren good but Sandin bad defensively. I don’t think there’s much difference in their defensive play except one got to play with Gio which helped steady his game. They’re both pretty good with their stick but neither is particularly good in front of the net. Sandin is better in the PP, Lilli on the PK.
I don’t think signing Gio for $800k or giving Muzzin a NTC means they don’t want to keep Sandin anymore than giving one to Holl meant they didn’t want to keep Lilligren. - Canada Cup
I agree for sure with the singing Gio and Muzzin NTC point. I don’t think that means they don’t want keep Sandin. I personally would trade him for other reasons (his ask is too much, good asset to move along with Kerfoot for a needle mover, etc).
I disagree though with the thought that him and Liljegren are the same defensively. I don’t think that’s close.
Net front, on cycle, decisions with puck and the way they play instinctively. Liljegren has proven so far to be more reliable.
Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
Sep 17 @ 10:10 PM ET
I agree for sure with the singing Gio and Muzzin NTC point. I don’t think that means they don’t want keep Sandin. I personally would trade him for other reasons (his ask is too much, good asset to move along with Kerfoot for a needle mover, etc).
I disagree though with the thought that him and Liljegren are the same defensively. I don’t think that’s close.
Net front, on cycle, decisions with puck and the way they play instinctively. Liljegren has proven so far to be more reliable. - Big23Questions
Agreed. Liljegren is a lot better defensively. He was before he played with Gio and the gap widened even more-so after Gio got him to calm his play and be more confident.
He spent the entire time he was with the Marlies improving as such. Sandin couldn't do the same because the Leafs rushed him ahead of Liljegren because he was Dubas' first pick.
Location: All Ontario Scientist (Masters Level III) Joined: 04.11.2018
Sep 17 @ 10:20 PM ET
He's younger than and has out produced the guy I mentioned that just got traded for the 13th overall pick.
Yeah, I know it was Lou that made the trade and he's senile, but it still happened. - GreatGigInTheSky
To me - I say if Dubas is going to trade Sandin that he should use as part of a package in a meaningful deal. Not just Sandin solo.
I personally would package:
Kerfoot, Sandin, Robertson for a skilled banger to play with JT/Willy…if possible (who knows who’s available really)
Sandin for the reasons I’ve mentioned before, Robertson because for some reason I just honestly don’t think he can play Top 6 on Leafs in next couple years and hopefully you guys win before then or during that frame. He can’t play bottom 6. Not the right fit.
Kerfoot - as much as he is real valuable come playoff time (LW, RW, C, PP2, PK, play any line in lineup) he isn’t the right fit on that second line right now with JT Willy and he’s too costly for a 3rd line player on this team. It’s awkward and I don’t like it. It was mentioned here before Jarnkrok can play 2nd line no doubt but to me it would be a waste to move him just for Cap space.
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Sep 18 @ 8:43 AM ET
To me - I say if Dubas is going to trade Sandin that he should use as part of a package in a meaningful deal. Not just Sandin solo.
I personally would package:
Kerfoot, Sandin, Robertson for a skilled banger to play with JT/Willy…if possible (who knows who’s available really)
Sandin for the reasons I’ve mentioned before, Robertson because for some reason I just honestly don’t think he can play Top 6 on Leafs in next couple years and hopefully you guys win before then or during that frame. He can’t play bottom 6. Not the right fit.
Kerfoot - as much as he is real valuable come playoff time (LW, RW, C, PP2, PK, play any line in lineup) he isn’t the right fit on that second line right now with JT Willy and he’s too costly for a 3rd line player on this team. It’s awkward and I don’t like it. It was mentioned here before Jarnkrok can play 2nd line no doubt but to me it would be a waste to move him just for Cap space. - Big23Questions
Sandin and Lilligren are going to be an important pairing for the Leafs going forward. He stays.
Robertson is one of the few waiver exempt forwards capable of playing on the roster. He stays.
Leafs can’t afford Kerfoot’s being ok at a bunch of things and have other versatile players who can replace him. Move him for picks and be in a position to make a move at the deadline.
